Math decision anxiety for my 8th grader... (AOPS help)

[rachelb]

Hey fellow homeschooling parents,

I am in dire need of advice and encouragement. This year, I have 4 kids I'll be teaching from ages K-8th and I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed about it all in general.

However now, in addition, we're running into major math issues for my oldest. I'm not sure what to do and it's basically put my anxiety through the roof. 

He is going to be a young 8th grader (turning 13 later this month) and did Singapore from K-6th which worked out great. He doesn't love math but always seemed to pick concepts up pretty quickly so for whatever reason (sadly I think part of it was my ego because of the rigor) we decided to go with AOPS Pre-Alg for 7th. Well... He was working through it on his own pretty well, but every time I would check his answers in the review sections, he was getting a lot of them wrong. He seemed to get the concepts but would miss details (things like negatives) that would make the answer wrong. I tend to be more math minded myself and actually love algebra, so this really bugs me because I know in "real" school, it doesn't matter if it's just a little wrong, it's still WRONG. Unfortunately it tends to lead to me spending hours re-working problems with him, to the point of us both dreading it. 

He ended up only getting through about half the book after the year was out, so we continued on through the summer and he's now about 2/3 through. However we are still having to rework problems pretty consistently, even though, again, I know he gets the concepts. The pace along with the amount of time I'm having to spend with him on it is getting really discouraging and exhausting. I know that he really lacks determination and mental toughness in general, but it's especially bad with math. He will leave problems blank without trying them if he thinks they are too hard. I can't tell if that's because this particular version of math is just so overwhelming and killed his desire even more or if it's just an overall character trait.

I think I need to face the music and realize that maybe he's just not math-y enough for AOPS. For some reason this just feels so painful! Like I failed him or like it might be my fault that he's struggling... Like I could have prepared him better. I don't even know, it's just a yucky feeling.

Anyway, I legitimately do NOT have the time to continue working with him this much because it's taking me away from my other kids and his other subjects. I've been looking into online options like TT or CTC but I feel completely overwhelmed about trying to decide which direction to do and if they will be thorough enough for him (since again, he gets concepts but is lazy about making sure he gets all the details right). I have even debated doing AOPS online, but I'm worried I'm just pushing him down a very difficult road for no reason and that it might be a giant waste of time if he doesn't continue all of his math coursework through AOPS. 

And in all honesty, I feel like having him do math online is a cop out in my part because I really love math and was actually excited to teach my kids algebra when they got there. And now I finally have a kid there and I'm looking into online options. Ugh! 

Any advice, encouragement, or thoughts are welcome. Thanks for reading through my emotional rambling!

[8filltheheart]

Not using AoPS is absolutely NOT a cop out.  Honestly, there is no reason to push AoPS on any child, extremely mathy or otherwise, who does not enjoy approaching math that way.  Most of my kids are very strong mathematically.  I have a chemE ds who has a fabulous career that used very traditional math courses (Foerster, Larson, Sullivan) for high school and was a top student in college (he graduated from high school before I had ever even heard of AoPS.)

My ds who thrived in AoPS is now majoring in theoretical cosmology.  He loves all things theory. He has always spent hours in his head pondering, mulling things over, theorizing, and attempting to problem solve from multiple directions.  AoPS was a match for him b/c that is just what he does.  AoPS provided him with an extremely strong math foundation for what he ended up pursuing in life.  

BUT......chemE ds is also a very strong math student whose ability to apply math concepts to real world engineering problems was definitely served by his traditional approach.  (He also was a teenager who had a girlfriend and lots of social life who would never have wanted to spend the same amt of time on math that his younger brother did.  

My dd who is a jr in college is as strong of a math student as her AoPS brother.  She took AoPS alg under pressure from him to try it.  She said no way, no how.  She is a strong math student who does not want to spend time learning math that way.  She just wants to be taught concepts and then she knows how to use them.  She doesn't want to spend hours theorizing about mathematical principles.  She is a language lover who does not need AoPS, who didn't like AoPS, and who is a 4.0 student.

The WTM forums are enamored with AoPS.  I concur that it is the math program for kids who love math and really want to dwell there.  I don't think my physics geek ds would be where he is today if he hadn't had AoPS somewhere in there encouraging to keep on thinking the way he naturally does.  So, I do get the 💖💖.   That said, it is not the only path to solid mathematical understanding, even for those pursuing STEM careers.  As a matter of fact, it could be the math program that deters kids who would otherwise thrive mathematically and feel confident in pursuing a STEM career except for the frustration that AoPS made them feel and undermined that goal/desire.

[Kendall]

In that situation I might start Foerster Algebra 1. He doesn't need to finish AOPS prealgebra; much of the rest of the book is material that will be covered in geometry or in algebra. You could have him slowly work through AOPS if he moves quickly in the algebra 1, which you may find that he does. This would give him the challenge of AOPS without the pacing frustration.

My last few kids have done the first 7 or 8 chapters of AOPS and then done Foerster Algebra 1. It is a very strong algebra 1 text. My other children just did the Foerster text.

He will find the first few chapters easy and can maybe build carefulness and reduce discouragement. 

When my children are missing problems, I check their work or have them check their work after every few problems. 

 

 

 

 

 

[rachelb]

27 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

The WTM forums are enamored with AoPS.  I concur that it is the math program for kids who love math and really want to dwell there.  I don't think my physics geek ds would be where he is today if he hadn't had AoPS somewhere in there encouraging to keep on thinking the way he naturally does.  So, I do get the 💖💖.   That said, it is not the only path to solid mathematical understanding, even for those pursuing STEM careers.  As a matter of fact, it could be the math program that deters kids who would otherwise thrive mathematically and feel confident in pursuing a STEM career except for the frustration that AoPS made them feel and undermined that goal/desire.

Such wonderful advice! Definitely needed to hear that. Thank you so much for taking the time to read and reply. ♥️

[rachelb]

29 minutes ago, Kendall said:

In that situation I might start Foerster Algebra 1. He doesn't need to finish AOPS prealgebra; much of the rest of the book is material that will be covered in geometry or in algebra. You could have him slowly work through AOPS if he moves quickly in the algebra 1, which you may find that he does. This would give him the challenge of AOPS without the pacing frustration.

My last few kids have done the first 7 or 8 chapters of AOPS and then done Foerster Algebra 1. It is a very strong algebra 1 text. My other children just did the Foerster text.

He will find the first few chapters easy and can maybe build carefulness and reduce discouragement. 

When my children are missing problems, I check their work or have them check their work after every few problems. 

I honestly don't know anything about Foerester Algebra but I'm about to go look it up! Thank you!

[Kendall]

I just teach my kids the lessons and It sounds like you could do the same, but I have heard that Math Without Borders sells video teaching for use with the Foerster text. 

[rachelb]

Just now, Kendall said:

I just teach my kids the lessons and It sounds like you could do the same, but I have heard that Math Without Borders sells video teaching for use with the Foerster text. 

Yes I just read that as well. It's a little pricey to get both but it seems like it would be nice for the sake of time. I'm realizing I just need more of my time to be freed up for my other kids/subjects and the older they get, the now if a struggle it is becoming!

[8filltheheart]

The Math w/o Border videos just teach exactly what is written in the text.  If your student can read the text, the videos really don't add anything.  

[rachelb]

24 minutes ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

The Math w/o Border videos just teach exactly what is written in the text.  If your student can read the text, the videos really don't add anything.  

That's good to know. I saw people saying it really helps explain things better but I don't want to get anything unnecessary, especially when it doubles the price of the curriculum. 

[Kendall]

When I added a 4th, 5th,and 6th  child to my school day (and littles underneath!) I did sometimes teach the lesson the evening before and then the next day the child could start his math without me and then during the day I was only needed if he had a question, and I could be teaching another child.  It really helped when I did this.  With some of my quicker kids, I didn't need to because they needed very little time with me before starting the problems.  In my experience, my children much prefered me teaching them to them reading the lesson. YMMV. They did plenty of stuff on their own, but math I taught directly to them.

 

 

[8filltheheart]

I agree with @Kendallin that I always teach math. I also multitask when my older kids are doing math and they call out their answers and I grade as they go. My POV on the MWB videos is simply that he basically just reiterates exactly what the text says. I actually think the text's explanations are clearer. (We used the videos for a few weeks yrs ago and the. I sold them.)

If you really want someone else doing the teaching, Imwould recommend looking into Derek Owens. I have had 2 kids use his lectures for precal and the course was solid. I have never seen his alg course, but it always receives excellent reviews (and I have seen positive reviews from people whose mathematical opinions I respect. I am a math snob 😉 but my POV doesn't always mesh well with WTM posters.)

[Momto6inIN]

Everything 8 said about AoPS is absolutely spot on. It was wonderful for my oldest who truly enjoyed spending hours each day thinking about theoretical math concepts and took the AoPS Calc book on vacation to Alaska with us "in case he got bored" LOL. But for my other kids who are good math students but who don't love it, it gives them the heebie jeebies just looking at it!

If you want to be involved in math teaching but not spend a lot of time, I recommend looking at Video Text. I watch a 10-15 min lesson with my kids every day or so and then they do the problems. It's a strong conceptual program but they won't spend anywhere near the time that AoPS srudents spend on math.

[Brigid in NC]

On 8/3/2019 at 8:22 AM, rachelb said:

I have even debated doing AOPS online, but I'm worried I'm just pushing him down a very difficult road for no reason and that it might be a giant waste of time if he doesn't continue all of his math coursework through AOPS.

Hi rachelb - I encourage you to reach out to Shin Yen--a homeschooling mom who has taught a variety of math classes (including AOPS) and has tutored widely. When we were designing the math classes for the online provider I head up, I really wanted the math teachers to choose AOPS as the core curriculum, and I advocated for that. Shin--who actually teaches at a local AOPS office in her area in CA--was adamant that AOPS is not for every student. It doesn't mean those students are not bright--and even talented--in math. She maintains that it is just not an approach that is a good fit for all.

I don't think Shin frequents the WTM forums, so I encourage you to send her an email if you would like her advice. You can take a look at her credentials here. And if she looks like someone you'd like to talk with, just PM me and I'll be glad to put you in touch with her. Shin is a warm, helpful home educator who might be able to offer additional ideas and support.

Best of luck! ~Brigid