positive discipline for large bullying toddler.. please, please help

[LG Gone Wild]

This is for my neighbor. She has a very large child who is 3 years old. He quite a bully to include hitting his mom and his dad. My kids love to hang out with her and play with this boy. I have observed him having a go at all 3 of my kids on various occasions. My neighbor is a very gentle person. What I have seen her do is trying to cajole, bribe, or redirect her son. I can't say it is effective. As time has gone on, her son is larger and larger and more uncooperative. She sometimes try to hold him down, like a large bear hug, but this is a very large child and she can't do that forever.

 

My dd had gone over there last night to watch a movie and play. The first thing she said was how much this boy was hitting her. I called my neighbor today to let her know that this hitting business has been on my mind. My neighbor said she was aware but that she was struggling with this and wasn't sure what to do about. Her son is large enough to open and unlock doors that it mightn't work just to send her son to another room for a time out or whatever. From what I observed, he doesn't mind her all that much.

 

Sooooo, I bummed for my neighbor. Can you help her out? I don't have any ideas or none that she would use so I didn't offer her any. I just told her I would ask you guys who have experience in positive discipline.

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't mean slap them, not at all! But you have to be in the room with them, close by, watching them play. It can be grueling.

 

What I have seen work with this particular problem is to catch the arm that is about to hit, literally in midair, and then lead or carry the child away from the others and say, "People are SO special. We don't hurt people. We hug them." If you just tell a 3 year old what not to do, they mostly are too young to think of what to do instead, in the moment, which is why you mention the hug. If he has already hit someone, you say the same thing, and then you say, "XXXX is hurt. How can you help him feel better?" and walk them through something that makes restitution, like bringing them something nice or something like that. It's also important to encourage the one that is getting hit to verbalize not to hit--especially if he's young; you don't want to entrench someone as a victim and have him not learn to stand up for himself.

 

This won't work in one or two tries. It has to be done over and over, consistently.

[LG Gone Wild]

I don't mean slap them, not at all! But you have to be in the room with them, close by, watching them play. It can be grueling.

 

What I have seen work with this particular problem is to catch the arm that is about to hit, literally in midair, and then lead or carry the child away from the others and say, "People are SO special. We don't hurt people. We hug them." If you just tell a 3 year old what not to do, they mostly are too young to think of what to do instead, in the moment, which is why you mention the hug. If he has already hit someone, you say the same thing, and then you say, "XXXX is hurt. How can you help him feel better?" and walk them through something that makes restitution, like bringing them something nice or something like that. It's also important to encourage the one that is getting hit to verbalize not to hit--especially if he's young; you don't want to entrench someone as a victim and have him not learn to stand up for himself.

 

This won't work in one or two tries. It has to be done over and over, consistently.

 

 

That's a start. I think she does do some of that. Perhaps she just needs to be on it more. The deeper problem is that he doesn't pay anyone any mind, especially her.

[Carol in Cal.]

It has to be completely consistent.

 

At that age, I have taken kids away from a play area on the second violation as well, and said, "I need you to play over here instead of over there. I need to keep everyone feeling safe." and kept them watching for about 10 minutes. They really have to know that you mean, but you really have to stay calm in administering this; almost more in sorrow than in anger. It has to stay positive.

[LG Gone Wild]

It has to be completely consistent.

 

At that age, I have taken kids away from a play area on the second violation as well, and said, "I need you to play over here instead of over there. I need to keep everyone feeling safe." and kept them watching for about 10 minutes. They really have to know that you mean, but you really have to stay calm in administering this; almost more in sorrow than in anger. It has to stay positive.

 

Not to pester you but with a million what ifs but what if the child won't stay away from the play area. If she removes him to another room, he'll run back out and perhaps strike her? She has a daycare in her home so it could become complicated.

[Murphy101]

If he hits, he's done playing.

Seriously.

 

If he hits your kid, then his mom should tell him he can't play with them. Even sending them home if neccessary. "Son, it's not nice to hit. You know that and were told not to do it. Because you hit, they are going home where people don't hit them." and actually do it.

 

(I'd send the poor kid who got hit home with a cookie or somethign to make sure they know they aren't being punished for my kids behavior, kwim?)

 

At the very least, I'd set him at my feet for a good 30 minutes and refuse to let him play with or talk to the other kids during that time. (actually, this works well if he hits his mother too.) Yes, he'll scream and throw a fit and she'll have to physically keep him there, but he'll get the message. I wouldn't talk much about it either. Just very matter of fact, "You did this and now look at where it got you and I'm not listening to any fit about it." attitude.

 

Oh and saying sorry is all well and good, but it shouldn't be an "avoid all consequences/get out of jail free" pass. I'd make him say he was sorry after the consequence. He'll probably actually mean it more than anyways.;)

 

Once the consequence is done, then it's not discussed (because forgiveness should allow for moving on). Just repeat the consequence if it happens again.

 

NOTE: REPEAT AS NEEDED. consistancy is key here.

[Murphy101]

It has to be completely consistent.

 

At that age, I have taken kids away from a play area on the second violation as well, and said, "I need you to play over here instead of over there. I need to keep everyone feeling safe." and kept them watching for about 10 minutes. They really have to know that you mean, but you really have to stay calm in administering this; almost more in sorrow than in anger. It has to stay positive.

 

there you go - she said it much more consise than I did!:)

 

Not to pester you but with a million what ifs but what if the child won't stay away from the play area. If she removes him to another room, he'll run back out and perhaps strike her? She has a daycare in her home so it could become complicated.

 

Then she better be VERY consistant before she ends up paying some other parent's ER bill for a busted nose or losing her license. Parents tend to not take kindly to paying someone to watch their kid and said kid getting beaten up by the other kids. Or worse, having a parent accuss HER of leaving the bruise.

 

If she removes him to another room, then she puts him right back. About a million times it'll seem until the message gets through that she is NOT going to argue this point with him. I'd suggest the staying at her feet for that reason. That way she can watch the other kids still.

 

I don't know if it'd work or not, but I once had a good friend who used a carseat to restrain her son in such situations. It was kept only in the house in a corner for just that purpose. My kids have always been able to get out of any carseat as young as age 9 months, but her boy couldn't get out of that one. She said once he learned to stay in the seat, she didn't use the harness straps to keep him in it anymore, but she has early degenerative arthritis (SP!) in her hands and literally could not physically handle restraining him at that age herself so this was a great way for her to get him used to staying in timeout. She said after the first few times, all she had to do was ask him if she needed to strap him in to make him obey in the corner and he'd stay there b/c he hated being straped in. Oh and the carseat was nothing like the one he used in the car, which he loved. Don't want to make the kid think he's being punished every time she has to go for a drive!

 

hmm.. maybe she should duct tape his bum to the floor?:lol:;)

[mktkcb]

OK, honestly, have her get and watch 2 of any of the seasons of supernanny. She'll learn a TON of very good positive parenting techniques, including learning to use a firm voice, and using a "naughty" whatever (step, chair, spot....) correctly. She'll see that there are kids worse than hers that can be trained properly. I, personally, have very strong willed children (12-17yo), and I've really enjoyed watching this lately, even though I used/figured out many of the techniques myself when my kids were little and don't have huge issues with them now. She is RIGHT ON the right track. One difference....I spanked judiciously, and supernanny would never do that. So thats my rec.

Kayleen

[SonshineLearner]

Can you recommend Love and Logic? It's not totally "positive discipline", but it's natural consequences. "Children who are kind to each other are able to watch a movie, children who aren't have to be by themselves." And, if your child hits, the movie goes back over to the friend's house to watch....or your child goes to their room....or whatever makes it so the "hitting child" isn't able to finish the activity. (watching the movie). Anyway, I spank too, sometimes...but sometimes you can just let a natural consequence correct your child.... I like Supernanny, but I find that it's a little more than real life.....

[Joanne]

If he hits, he's done playing.

Seriously.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Yup. The natural consequence is that parents get upset, and the children eventually want to avoid play. As this does not move quickly enough for a 3 year old nor do 3 year olds feel the impact enough, logical consequences need to be imposed.

 

The "real world" is that if you don't behave appropriately in a setting, you are asked to leave that setting. If, at 3, he doesn't control his body, it needs to be made clear to him that he is ASKING TO LEAVE.

 

Being too physical = leaving the situation.

 

Now, this kid also needs some body space training. Get a hula hoop and have him move around (outside at first) to get used to the "bubble" around people, being careful not to pop other people's bubbles.

 

Use the "bubble" metaphor often, reminding him to not "pop" their bubble. It's possible that this kid needs a "no touch" policy vs. Carol's advice (which works for many). Telling this kid to touch in any way (including hugs) might be a disaster until he's older. "No touch play" is probably best.

 

Adding structured sensory play is a good idea, as well.

 

Gotta go, more later.

[Joanne]

Back.

 

Code words will help also:

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=16

 

Here is my page on aggression:

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=17

 

Try to avoid vague (to children) terms such as "nice" or "loving" or "share". Instead, stick to "hands to yourself", "taking turns" and "give space".

[LG Gone Wild]

Back.

 

Code words will help also:

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=16

 

Here is my page on aggression:

 

http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=17

 

Try to avoid vague (to children) terms such as "nice" or "loving" or "share". Instead, stick to "hands to yourself", "taking turns" and "give space".

 

Thanks for your links. I will forward them on to her.

[LG Gone Wild]

I will pass on your suggestions. I think she does too much talking and trying to reason with her child. When the time is right, I will suggest less talking and perhaps silence.

 

I hope this works because we are neighbors. It would be very awkward if an estrangement developed over this. I would like to have her over but her son is...difficult...so I don't.