Saxon math q again

[Ausmumof3]

So oldest (ds12) is finally settling in with Saxon after trying and not liking AOPS and math mammoth.  He’s started in algebra 1/2

the level of work is about right in terms of he understands conceptually and has even covered most of the “new” concepts.  However he’s extremely slow.  It’s taking two or even three days to work through each problem set.  Would you keep him at this level and just accept that it might take two years or he may speed up in time or put him back to the 7/8 level in the hope that it would speed up the process by the time he gets to it.  Im very mindful that it’s halfway through the year here and we’ve switched math program three times now so I’m reluctant to change again.

separately any advice for improving speed. Math facts are mostly solid.  Laying out stuff is a challenge as he’s always worked in a workbook with Singapore.  And I think working memory is an ongoing issue.

[EmilyGF]

17 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

So oldest (ds12) is finally settling in with Saxon after trying and not liking AOPS and math mammoth.  He’s started in algebra 1/2

the level of work is about right in terms of he understands conceptually and has even covered most of the “new” concepts.  However he’s extremely slow.  It’s taking two or even three days to work through each problem set.  Would you keep him at this level and just accept that it might take two years or he may speed up in time or put him back to the 7/8 level in the hope that it would speed up the process by the time he gets to it.  Im very mindful that it’s halfway through the year here and we’ve switched math program three times now so I’m reluctant to change again.

separately any advice for improving speed. Math facts are mostly solid.  Laying out stuff is a challenge as he’s always worked in a workbook with Singapore.  And I think working memory is an ongoing issue.

Commiseration that changing math programs always seems to set you back about three months.

How long have you been using Saxon? I think there is a learning curve when you start a new program. 3 weeks vs 3 months is a big deal.

If it is 3 weeks, I'd give it another 3 weeks to see if speed improves. Maybe require math homework on one day over the weekend? Plan on keeping math going over the summer and breaks?

What would be the reason to put him in 7/8? It would still take two years to finish Algebra 1/2. Is he frustrated? 

[cbollin]

Here is my experience with my oldest and middle going from Singapore to Saxon at the pre algebra level around the same age of 12 or 13.  Oldest - math was usually easy.  She even holds a BS in math these days so this is looking back perspective to finally get around to your questions and my opinion.  At end of her grade 6 when she finished with Singapore 6b, she did saxon placement test. Her score on that was suggesting to start at alg 1.  But I knew she wasn't ready for that work load.  So, I went back a book to alg 1/2.  She was slow it in and struggling and something felt wrong to be as a teacher.  So after about 20 lessons, I said, let's just start back with 87 book with prealgebra.  The print is larger in 87. That's nice.  There are drill sheets on fact to help with speed.  Oh, the calculations problems don't involve 6 digit figures.  Oh, now I get it lightbulb moment. no wonder it was taking so long.  geesh.   And she thrived in 87 with only a few tantrums on bad days that had nothing to do with math.  At end of 87, we skipped 1/2 and she did just fine in Alg 1.  I had always read that you do one or the other of those books, so I wasn't worried at that point.   Middle child: math is work for her. Her college degree did not need above pre calc (and she got that done with a clep exam).  When she finished her Singapore time at end of grade 6, I just started with 87 Saxon with her.  I could tell at the end of the year, she needed more time before alg 1, so she did alg 1/2 in grade 8.  And it was slow going, and we used mfw lesson plans to not feel like every problem had to be done. (they hired a career math teacher for those plans. it's not just random even/odds or anything and it works for many).

that's my children's experience.  Based on that and what you originally wrote,  I would go with 87 book (the one with pre alg, 3rd edition, homeschool set. look on mfw site for the edition that we used and that I'm sharing my experience), and use the drill book to help with speed on facts and such.  Each lesson day begins with warm ups of using a facts drill.  Then some thinking problems to refresh and wake up your math brain.  Then you go to the lesson book.  That was missing from the 1/2 text. I found that if I set the timer in the drill book that even my advanced oldest was willing to get as much done as possible.  on grumpy days she needed a scooby snack to reward.   It is possible that after 87 book your child will be ready for Alg 1.  Many people do not do both 87 and 1/2.  My experience is that 87 font and format is a good fit for the age.

just my experience and opinion.

  (PS: if you start at the beginning in 87, he can probably work faster for a while. )

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by cbollin

[EmilyGF]

32 minutes ago, cbollin said:

Here is my experience with my oldest and middle going from Singapore to Saxon at the pre algebra level around the same age of 12 or 13.  Oldest - math was usually easy.  She even holds a BS in math these days so this is looking back perspective to finally get around to your questions and my opinion.  At end of her grade 6 when she finished with Singapore 6b, she did saxon placement test. Her score on that was suggesting to start at alg 1.  But I knew she wasn't ready for that work load.  So, I went back a book to alg 1/2.  She was slow it in and struggling and something felt wrong to be as a teacher.  So after about 20 lessons, I said, let's just start back with 87 book with prealgebra.  The print is larger in 87. That's nice.  There are drill sheets on fact to help with speed.  Oh, the calculations problems don't involve 6 digit figures.  Oh, now I get it lightbulb moment. no wonder it was taking so long.  geesh.   And she thrived in 87 with only a few tantrums on bad days that had nothing to do with math.  At end of 87, we skipped 1/2 and she did just fine in Alg 1.  I had always read that you do one or the other of those books, so I wasn't worried at that point.   Middle child: math is work for her. Her college degree did not need above pre calc (and she got that done with a clep exam).  When she finished her Singapore time at end of grade 6, I just started with 87 Saxon with her.  I could tell at the end of the year, she needed more time before alg 1, so she did alg 1/2 in grade 8.  And it was slow going, and we used mfw lesson plans to not feel like every problem had to be done. (they hired a career math teacher for those plans. it's not just random even/odds or anything and it works for many).

that's my children's experience.  Based on that and what you originally wrote,  I would go with 87 book (the one with pre alg, 3rd edition, homeschool set. look on mfw site for the edition that we used and that I'm sharing my experience), and use the drill book to help with speed on facts and such.  Each lesson day begins with warm ups of using a facts drill.  Then some thinking problems to refresh and wake up your math brain.  Then you go to the lesson book.  That was missing from the 1/2 text. I found that if I set the timer in the drill book that even my advanced oldest was willing to get as much done as possible.  on grumpy days she needed a scooby snack to reward.   It is possible that after 87 book your child will be ready for Alg 1.  Many people do not do both 87 and 1/2.  My experience is that 87 font and format is a good fit for the age.

just my experience and opinion.

  (PS: if you start at the beginning in 87, he can probably work faster for a while. )

 

Is there a Saxon drill book in 8/7? In other levels?

[Ellie]

6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

So oldest (ds12) is finally settling in with Saxon after trying and not liking AOPS and math mammoth.  He’s started in algebra 1/2

the level of work is about right in terms of he understands conceptually and has even covered most of the “new” concepts.  However he’s extremely slow.  It’s taking two or even three days to work through each problem set.  Would you keep him at this level and just accept that it might take two years or he may speed up in time or put him back to the 7/8 level in the hope that it would speed up the process by the time he gets to it.  Im very mindful that it’s halfway through the year here and we’ve switched math program three times now so I’m reluctant to change again.

separately any advice for improving speed. Math facts are mostly solid.  Laying out stuff is a challenge as he’s always worked in a workbook with Singapore.  And I think working memory is an ongoing issue.

Both Math 87 and Algebra 1/2 are "prealgebra." Students do one or the other, and then go on to Algebra 1. If you switched him to Math 87, it would not be "putting him back." It would be putting him in a different prealgebra text; when he finished, he would do Algebra 1.

Did you have him take the placement test?

He's just 12; even if it took him two years to finish, 14 is definitely on track for algebra and above.

[cbollin]

On 7/4/2019 at 8:30 AM, EmilyGF said:

Is there a Saxon drill book in 8/7? In other levels?

 

I have not used below 8/7.  There is one in 8/7.   There was not in alg 1/2 or higher.  I am probably using the wrong word of the actual book I am talking about so.... hold on.  let me go on rainbow or mfw or something.....  It is called "tests and worksheets" book instead of "drill".  However the worksheets are the drill pages.  This is the product I'm talking about.  here: https://www.rainbowresource.com/product/sku/024437

sorry for delay in answering.  I didn't login again in afternoon and missed the notification.

Edited July 5, 2019 by cbollin

[Ausmumof3]

On 7/4/2019 at 10:26 PM, cbollin said:

Here is my experience with my oldest and middle going from Singapore to Saxon at the pre algebra level around the same age of 12 or 13.  Oldest - math was usually easy.  She even holds a BS in math these days so this is looking back perspective to finally get around to your questions and my opinion.  At end of her grade 6 when she finished with Singapore 6b, she did saxon placement test. Her score on that was suggesting to start at alg 1.  But I knew she wasn't ready for that work load.  So, I went back a book to alg 1/2.  She was slow it in and struggling and something felt wrong to be as a teacher.  So after about 20 lessons, I said, let's just start back with 87 book with prealgebra.  The print is larger in 87. That's nice.  There are drill sheets on fact to help with speed.  Oh, the calculations problems don't involve 6 digit figures.  Oh, now I get it lightbulb moment. no wonder it was taking so long.  geesh.   And she thrived in 87 with only a few tantrums on bad days that had nothing to do with math.  At end of 87, we skipped 1/2 and she did just fine in Alg 1.  I had always read that you do one or the other of those books, so I wasn't worried at that point.   Middle child: math is work for her. Her college degree did not need above pre calc (and she got that done with a clep exam).  When she finished her Singapore time at end of grade 6, I just started with 87 Saxon with her.  I could tell at the end of the year, she needed more time before alg 1, so she did alg 1/2 in grade 8.  And it was slow going, and we used mfw lesson plans to not feel like every problem had to be done. (they hired a career math teacher for those plans. it's not just random even/odds or anything and it works for many).

that's my children's experience.  Based on that and what you originally wrote,  I would go with 87 book (the one with pre alg, 3rd edition, homeschool set. look on mfw site for the edition that we used and that I'm sharing my experience), and use the drill book to help with speed on facts and such.  Each lesson day begins with warm ups of using a facts drill.  Then some thinking problems to refresh and wake up your math brain.  Then you go to the lesson book.  That was missing from the 1/2 text. I found that if I set the timer in the drill book that even my advanced oldest was willing to get as much done as possible.  on grumpy days she needed a scooby snack to reward.   It is possible that after 87 book your child will be ready for Alg 1.  Many people do not do both 87 and 1/2.  My experience is that 87 font and format is a good fit for the age.

just my experience and opinion.

  (PS: if you start at the beginning in 87, he can probably work faster for a while. )

 

Ok thank you

[Ausmumof3]

On 7/4/2019 at 11:41 PM, Ellie said:

Both Math 87 and Algebra 1/2 are "prealgebra." Students do one or the other, and then go on to Algebra 1. If you switched him to Math 87, it would not be "putting him back." It would be putting him in a different prealgebra text; when he finished, he would do Algebra 1.

Did you have him take the placement test?

He's just 12; even if it took him two years to finish, 14 is definitely on track for algebra and above.

I printed the placement tests linked but someone turned the 8/7 into a paper plane overnight and so I never ended up doing it.  😬. Which sounds terrible but there was a pile of scrap paper from dud printouts on the table for planes and it just got mixed in.

so I redid the placement testing and this time he even bombed 6/7 which I’m pretty sure he passed before.  And couldn’t remember what average meant even though we’ve been doing it since like grade 4.  And miscalculated a tonne of stuff.  

Feeling super frustrated right now