RS1 and RS2

[Targhee]

Debating between editions of RightStart.  I own RS A first edition (and a few materials from B), and have taught A-C of 1st edition (had to return books and materials to umbrella school).  My thought was to just get the few things I need for B to teach dd this fall, but then I started looking at 2nd edition.  I read explanations and watched the video at their site.  There do seem to be some advantages to RS2, but I was hoping for feedback from people who have used it (especially if you've used both editions at some point).

Is RS2 really easier to implement (because of streamlining the layout and giving each lesson 1 day)?

Would I be missing out on anything by switching to RS2? 

We love RS for its conceptual grounding in base 10 Math, and the excellent development of mental math skills. We will only use level B and then move to BA. Is the edition I get going to make a huge difference for level B?

[Kiara.I]

I used A1, then B1, then B2. When we switched to second edition I flipped through B and saw that there was material we hadn't covered, so we actually started halfway through it and did the second half of B again. So B2 might carry you a bit farther than B1 did.

[Targhee]

34 minutes ago, Kiara.I said:

I used A1, then B1, then B2. When we switched to second edition I flipped through B and saw that there was material we hadn't covered, so we actually started halfway through it and did the second half of B again. So B2 might carry you a bit farther than B1 did.

Thanks - this is helpful! I wonder, do you think RS2 B would be easy (easier) to accelerate/condense/skip parts? I debated doing Singapore Primary Math 1 because I have and have also taught it and it is easier than RS1 to accelerate. DD did RSA a year ago, public K this year along with playing DreamBox and Prodigy a lot (she learned much from them, not so much from K), and she's eager for new things. I really love the foundations of RS though.

[domestic_engineer]

I've used 1st edition A-E and 2nd edition A-C.  We are currently using 2nd edition D & F.    I think you'd be ok with either edition.  

But let me preface my opinions by saying that I never had any issues with the layout of 1st edition, I have no issues with the idea of accelerating/decelerating a lesson to meet my student's needs, I have no issues if I don't finish a level in one school year, and I don't have any issues understanding the instructions in the game books; so maybe I am an abnormal user of RS.

For me, the biggest advantage to using 2nd edition is that it explicitly tells me to play the games.  It's part of the lesson before the Conclusion.  In 1st edition, you had to schedule which game to play when, and I ended up rarely playing games.  It worked out ok for my student until it came to the multiplication facts.  But I just took a break and worked through the games book on multiplication.

I did notice that some topics were pulled in earlier in the 2nd edition (which is probably what Kiara.I noticed), but it's not like it was in the "wrong" place in 1st edition.  It was mostly introductory multiplication/arrays stuff.  I don't know that the 2nd edition takes you *deeper* in the material, but perhaps a bit *wider*.  However my gut feeling is that the width you gain is an the expense of depth.  Remember that 2nd edition was planned to stretch from A-F with 140 lessons in each level (except A).  However 1st edition got 80-90% of that same material done in only 5 levels (A-E). 

2nd edition definitely has more review lessons built into it than 1st edition, IMO.  And I think RS2 lessons last shorter than RS1 lessons.

To answer your questions specifically ....  

• RS2 isn't any easier to implement than RS1 for me.  (Now one could debate whether the ease comes from the 2nd edition changes or just from familiarity with the program, but you'd be in the same boat.)
• I don't think you'd be missing anything of consequence by switching to RS2.  Especially if you're familiar with the RS-way and the games, I have confidence that you could teach through any gaps you might find.  Plus if your plan is to move to BA, then I assume your DD can pick up math concepts pretty easily.  You could always call the RS office and get their official opinion though.
• Regarding acceleration ... similar to ease of implementation, I think the ease of accelerating the material is more dependent on *your* familiarity and confidence in the RS way rather than an edition change.  As a 2nd time teacher, you know what's important and what's less important (like in 1st edition level A and the kid had to identify the number of claps....pffffft.  I can't believe I spent so much time and energy trying to get that to work.  *roll eyes*. It wasn't in 2nd edition.  :P)

If you let money play into your decision, then 1st edition books are a bargain since the demand is for the 2nd edition.  Additionally you'd need less manipulatives for 1st ed B than 2nd ed B.  However, the resale of 2nd ed Manuals is soooo much better than 1st edition.

 

So - I'm very happy with my experience with 1st edition.  Switching to the 2nd edition for my other children is good for me because it's one less thing to think about (which game to play when) and I hope to resell it .... eventually ... for more than $5-10.

 

[Targhee]

22 minutes ago, domestic_engineer said:

I've used 1st edition A-E and 2nd edition A-C.  We are currently using 2nd edition D & F.    I think you'd be ok with either edition.  

But let me preface my opinions by saying that I never had any issues with the layout of 1st edition, I have no issues with the idea of accelerating/decelerating a lesson to meet my student's needs, I have no issues if I don't finish a level in one school year, and I don't have any issues understanding the instructions in the game books; so maybe I am an abnormal user of RS.

For me, the biggest advantage to using 2nd edition is that it explicitly tells me to play the games.  It's part of the lesson before the Conclusion.  In 1st edition, you had to schedule which game to play when, and I ended up rarely playing games.  It worked out ok for my student until it came to the multiplication facts.  But I just took a break and worked through the games book on multiplication.

I did notice that some topics were pulled in earlier in the 2nd edition (which is probably what Kiara.I noticed), but it's not like it was in the "wrong" place in 1st edition.  It was mostly introductory multiplication/arrays stuff.  I don't know that the 2nd edition takes you *deeper* in the material, but perhaps a bit *wider*.  However my gut feeling is that the width you gain is an the expense of depth.  Remember that 2nd edition was planned to stretch from A-F with 140 lessons in each level (except A).  However 1st edition got 80-90% of that same material done in only 5 levels (A-E). 

2nd edition definitely has more review lessons built into it than 1st edition, IMO.  And I think RS2 lessons last shorter than RS1 lessons.

To answer your questions specifically ....  

• RS2 isn't any easier to implement than RS1 for me.  (Now one could debate whether the ease comes from the 2nd edition changes or just from familiarity with the program, but you'd be in the same boat.)
• I don't think you'd be missing anything of consequence by switching to RS2.  Especially if you're familiar with the RS-way and the games, I have confidence that you could teach through any gaps you might find.  Plus if your plan is to move to BA, then I assume your DD can pick up math concepts pretty easily.  You could always call the RS office and get their official opinion though.
• Regarding acceleration ... similar to ease of implementation, I think the ease of accelerating the material is more dependent on *your* familiarity and confidence in the RS way rather than an edition change.  As a 2nd time teacher, you know what's important and what's less important (like in 1st edition level A and the kid had to identify the number of claps....pffffft.  I can't believe I spent so much time and energy trying to get that to work.  *roll eyes*. It wasn't in 2nd edition.  :P)

If you let money play into your decision, then 1st edition books are a bargain since the demand is for the 2nd edition.  Additionally you'd need less manipulatives for 1st ed B than 2nd ed B.  However, the resale of 2nd ed Manuals is soooo much better than 1st edition.

 

So - I'm very happy with my experience with 1st edition.  Switching to the 2nd edition for my other children is good for me because it's one less thing to think about (which game to play when) and I hope to resell it .... eventually ... for more than $5-10.

 

Soooo true, and I finally decided on the 3rd kid in A it wasn’t worth it! Even my aurally gifted kid was looking at me like “I don’t know, 2?” Sorry hun, it was 5.

Thank you for all the helpful information! I think I might go with RS2. Even if there are more materials to purchase I’m sure I can resell. This is my last kid afterall, so they won’t be too dated. 

[countrymum]

I see claps in the early lessons of RS2 level A. So is it just less?

Also which edition would you recommend for someone who has done some of RS1a and RS2a with 2 different kids? I am thinking of switching back to RS for both my will be Ker (A)and 2nd grader(C) next year and using it up till Prealgebra. Also i have at least 1 more comming up so whatever i do will be for at least 3 kids. I have the 5th ed game book and the new A but I don't mind picking up an old A as the price isn't bad;)

Here are my thoughts: the scheduled games sounds helpful. I don't care about the common core compliance (i guess I'd sort of rather not have it if anything). Is the review helpful or unnecessary? I don't care about getting through a book a year. Which is better mathamatical thinking prep for life and higher math. I am thinking of supplementing with drill and word problems from Strayer Upton or another vintage text.

I put more info in the question here but you can respond here or on my rightstart thread.

[Targhee]

3 hours ago, countrymum said:

I see claps in the early lessons of RS2 level A. So is it just less?

Also which edition would you recommend for someone who has done some of RS1a and RS2a with 2 different kids? I am thinking of switching back to RS for both my will be Ker (A)and 2nd grader(C) next year and using it up till Prealgebra. Also i have at least 1 more comming up so whatever i do will be for at least 3 kids. I have the 5th ed game book and the new A but I don't mind picking up an old A as the price isn't bad;)

Here are my thoughts: the scheduled games sounds helpful. I don't care about the common core compliance (i guess I'd sort of rather not have it if anything). Is the review helpful or unnecessary? I don't care about getting through a book a year. Which is better mathamatical thinking prep for life and higher math. I am thinking of supplementing with drill and word problems from Strayer Upton or another vintage text.

I put more info in the question here but you can respond here or on my rightstart thread.

Granted I have not seen RS2 yet but BOTH editions meet common core requirements (neither were organized for CC), so that is a non issue you’re right. Scheduled review games does sound nice - just to not have to remember or look to which would be good ones because every bit helps when doing a teacher intensive program like RS. RS2 (according to website) does more word problems, uses visual arrays to teach multiplication (instead of just skip counting), and introduces some of the drawing earlier.  It sounds like it’s all the same great math, just refined a bit. And they are going beyond G with RS2 so if you want to use it straight through RS2 might be a better choice (levels A-H as opposed to A-E and G). But that’s my non-experienced two cents.  Good luck with your choice. With RS, either edition, you will get solid math education!

[domestic_engineer]

3 hours ago, countrymum said:

I see claps in the early lessons of RS2 level A. So is it just less?

Oh.  I stand corrected then.  I must have just decided to not deal with it for subsequent kiddos.  Too much pain the first time .......   ?

 

[domestic_engineer]

37 minutes ago, Targhee said:

Granted I have not seen RS2 yet but BOTH editions meet common core requirements (neither were organized for CC), so that is a non issue you’re right. Scheduled review games does sound nice - just to not have to remember or look to which would be good ones because every bit helps when doing a teacher intensive program like RS. RS2 (according to website) does more word problems, uses visual arrays to teach multiplication (instead of just skip counting), and introduces some of the drawing earlier.  It sounds like it’s all the same great math, just refined a bit. And they are going beyond G with RS2 so if you want to use it straight through RS2 might be a better choice (levels A-H as opposed to A-E and G). But that’s my non-experienced two cents.  Good luck with your choice. With RS, either edition, you will get solid math education!

I'd agree with having scheduled review games in the 2nd edition. When juggling multiple kids,  it's easier to ignore what's written than to remember to add it in.  ?

I think both RS1 and RS2 use visual arrays to teach multiplication; but RS2 emphasizes it more than RS1.

I don't know that the end result is any different between the editions.  They are taking the current G (which is supposed to take 2 years when you add a pre-algebra text to it) and splitting it into 2 separate books (G and H).  My impression from their facebook page is that a student finishing G1e will be in the same place as a student finishing H2e.

And, @countrymum if your goal is mathematical thinking for life - I think either edition will help you meet the goal.  I don't think RS would sacrifice that for an edition change! (Insert winking emoji here.). Oh - and you asked if the review (that's added in 2e) is necessary ..... I think that the answer is dependent upon your child and your teaching style.  Does your student need a lot of review?  Do you teach to mastery of a lesson or are you more apt to push on and count on hitting it again?  But again, like the games, it's easier to ignore what's written than find the resources.  (... Especially if you are going to use it for multiple kids where one may utilize the review lessons and another may not need it.)

[Cake and Pi]

I've done 1st edition A-E and 2nd edition A-E (on the last few weeks of lessons in RS2 E now) of RS and also Beast 3-5 and 2A with my kiddos.  I love domestic_engineer's explanation of RS.  Yes to all of that. 

I think that in your particular situation, with a bright kiddo who's only going to do level B and then move on to Beast, 2nd edition is the way to go.  She's going to get quite enough depth from Beast, I'd use RS to get some breadth before the switch.  I'm particularly adverse to the way Beast introduces multiplication in 3B, so having it already introduced in RS would be a major plus in my mind.  1st edition B focuses extensively on place value and addition, barely touching on subtraction in just the last maybe 3 lessons, and multiplication isn't in there at all.

I've never had any issues compacting or accelerating either edition of RS.  My personal preference is to do 1st edition A-C and then switch to 2nd edition for D and up.  I like the layout of 2nd edition better and that the games are written into the lessons.  There are topics in 2nd edition D+ that aren't in 1st edition or are only very briefly introduced.  However, I prefer the gentler pace of 1st edition A and B (because my kids did those levels at 4-5yo) and the deeper content found 1st edition C.  There are a few more things about level C, but that's another topic entirely.

[Targhee]

31 minutes ago, Cake and Pi said:

I've done 1st edition A-E and 2nd edition A-E (on the last few weeks of lessons in RS2 E now) of RS and also Beast 3-5 and 2A with my kiddos.  I love domestic_engineer's explanation of RS.  Yes to all of that. 

I think that in your particular situation, with a bright kiddo who's only going to do level B and then move on to Beast, 2nd edition is the way to go.  She's going to get quite enough depth from Beast, I'd use RS to get some breadth before the switch.  I'm particularly adverse to the way Beast introduces multiplication in 3B, so having it already introduced in RS would be a major plus in my mind.  1st edition B focuses extensively on place value and addition, barely touching on subtraction in just the last maybe 3 lessons, and multiplication isn't in there at all.

I've never had any issues compacting or accelerating either edition of RS.  My personal preference is to do 1st edition A-C and then switch to 2nd edition for D and up.  I like the layout of 2nd edition better and that the games are written into the lessons.  There are topics in 2nd edition D+ that aren't in 1st edition or are only very briefly introduced.  However, I prefer the gentler pace of 1st edition A and B (because my kids did those levels at 4-5yo) and the deeper content found 1st edition C.  There are a few more things about level C, but that's another topic entirely.

Thank you for the insightful points! I did have issues compressing RS1 C with DS, and halfway through we simply started BA 3A. We loved B! And we loved BA! I

 

[countrymum]

5 hours ago, Cake and Pi said:

I've done 1st edition A-E and 2nd edition A-E (on the last few weeks of lessons in RS2 E now) of RS and also Beast 3-5 and 2A with my kiddos.  I love domestic_engineer's explanation of RS.  Yes to all of that. 

I think that in your particular situation, with a bright kiddo who's only going to do level B and then move on to Beast, 2nd edition is the way to go.  She's going to get quite enough depth from Beast, I'd use RS to get some breadth before the switch.  I'm particularly adverse to the way Beast introduces multiplication in 3B, so having it already introduced in RS would be a major plus in my mind.  1st edition B focuses extensively on place value and addition, barely touching on subtraction in just the last maybe 3 lessons, and multiplication isn't in there at all.

I've never had any issues compacting or accelerating either edition of RS.  My personal preference is to do 1st edition A-C and then switch to 2nd edition for D and up.  I like the layout of 2nd edition better and that the games are written into the lessons.  There are topics in 2nd edition D+ that aren't in 1st edition or are only very briefly introduced.  However, I prefer the gentler pace of 1st edition A and B (because my kids did those levels at 4-5yo) and the deeper content found 1st edition C.  There are a few more things about level C, but that's another topic entirely.

Could you elaborate on C here or on the other RS thread?

[Cake and Pi]

17 hours ago, countrymum said:

Could you elaborate on C here or on the other RS thread?

 

Sure.  1st edition C is just a thicker, meater book.  It has some of the "missing" lessons from B and quite a few things you now see in 2nd edition D.  There are also a few topics that are handled differently in the 2nd edition.

One of the main differences between the editions is when and how they cover multiplication.  In 1st edition, the bulk of single-digit multiplication is in level C, whereas in 2nd edition it's been moved to level D in order to keep the main topics of each level lined up with those generally being taught in PS these days.  So, RS1 C covers through 10x10, but 2nd edition only really goes up to 5x5.  On the other hand, 2nd edition introduces multiplication all the way back in level A and again in level B because (I guess?) PS standards expect kindergartners and 1st graders to have exposure to multiplication.  1st edition doesn't mention multiplication at all until level C and waits to call it that or use arrays until the child is thoroughly entrenched in skip counting and repeated addition and has some familiarity with area.  It's beautiful, in a way, how Dr. Cotter took the concept streams of area, skip counting, multiplication arrays, and repeated addition, built them up as separate tributaries, and then merged them into the big picture river of multiplication in 1st edition.

2nd edition also dramatically reduced the emphasis on skip counting because they found that many children were just memorizing the skip counting sequences and using skip counting to find multiplication facts (rather than using skip counting as an exercise in repeated addition and utilizing other strategies to find multiplication products).  RS is strongly opposed to rote counting, so they mostly nixed the skip counting in 2nd edition to correct this misuse of the skip counting sequences.  Personally, I like my kids to skip count early on.  I want them to make strong mental associations with the multiples because I believe it makes factoring and division easier later on.  None of them ever habitually used skip counting to find multiplication facts.

There are some differences in the presentation of subtraction, too.  RS1 C contains everything about basic, mental 2-digit, and pen-and-paper 4-digit subtraction; however, it's not review like it is in 2nd edition since RS1 B stops at addition.  The method used for pen-and-paper multi-digit subtraction is different between the two editions.  The 2nd edition method is closer to the traditional method, except for being "backwards" since they have the student subtract from left to right.  The method taught in 1st edition looks very foreign when all you're familiar with is the traditional way.  There is no crossing off or marking a little one to see that a trade/borrow was done.  The student just underlines the number being traded/borrowed from.  It's cleaner and particularly well suited to students who have limited fine motor skills or just messy handwriting.  They changed the method in 2nd edition to make it closer to what adults are used to because so many parents had trouble with the way it was done in 1st edition and complained.  I like the underlining method because it's simpler, cleaner, and seems more efficient.

I noticed a few other, little things that I liked better about RS1 C, but RS2 C also had some new things that were nice additions.  Altogether, though, the net effect of the pros and cons between the two editions of this particular level left me preferring 1st edition C.

Switching from RS1 C to RS2 D does create a bit of overlap (30ish lessons), but RS1 D was itself a frustratingly redundant level and poorly executed.  I therefore find D to be an ideal level at which to switch from RS1 to RS2.  I have nothing  but good things to say about 2nd edition D and E.  They're excellent and done quite a bit better than 1st edition D and E, IMO.

[mirabillis]

Very old thread. Hoping to revive as there was some great information regarding RS1 & 2 editions.

We are longtime users of RS1 (oldest 2 are in college). We have youngers in RS-B & RS-C

One student is struggling and we're having to take a 2nd pass. Thinking since her younger sibling is about to pass her to buy her RS-B2 so she'll feel like she's doing her 'own' book. 

Will it be possible to do RS-B2 and then move onto RS-C1 or will I need to buy RS-C, RS-D & RS-E 2nd edition to continue on the pathway? I hate to invest in the all new 2nd edition but if it's better, I'll consider it.

Also to note, this child is a twin whose sister is doing RS-C1 - so would likely continue with RS-C1 for her as RS-A1 - RS-E1 has worked for all the kids....