Classical Writing: Homer - - any reviews, feedback, etc?

[Above The Rowan]

I'm considering trying Classical Writing with my 6th grader. I think Fable would be too easy for him, even though I know they say to start at the beginning with everyone. So I'm looking at popping him in at the Homer level. I've gone through the next few levels online to see if it looks like something we might stick with, and I think it looks fantastic.

 

His younger sister is using Writing & Rhetoric and she loves it. I love it too. My 6th grader said it looks babyish and he remembers trying that a couple of years ago (when his anxiety was through the roof and totally unmanageable). So W&R is a no-go for him now, I think he's just made some negative association with those books. He's made huge strides with his anxiety, and he's a totally different student now than he was a while back when we tried W&R, but still - he refuses to even consider it. So that's out for him.

 

He's not a strong writer, but he knows he needs to get better. He will likely never be a creative writer, but he's asked to become better at academic-type writing. I want him to become a clearer communicator and get more comfortable with writing.

 

For reference, I should mention we're secular homeschoolers. I had also looked at MP's Classical Composition, but I felt from the samples that it just is too religious for us. CW doesn't seem to be quite so. We don't mind occasional parables and bible stories but CW seemed to have a nice mix of readings they work from, not just the bible.

 

Just curious about others' experiences before I jump on this one. Good? Bad? Horrible?

I don't know anyone personally who's used it so I'm reaching out to you guys.

 

(If not this curriculum, I was also eyeballing Writing With Skill - it looks dry as bones to me, but this kid of mine likes to do the thing, practice the thing, and no fuss or muss or games or flash cards or things like that. WWS also might be a bit more clear cut and I think might be 'more secular friendly'. It just looks like it might be too much too soon and I don't want to overwhelm him with writing.)

[SilverMoon]

It's been ages, but I used and LOVED CW Homer with my now graduated kids. Once we found a steady weekly rhythm to the program it was fabulous. They grew exponentially. Fwiw they're both humanities kids who enjoy writing very much now, though perhaps not so much at that age.

 

If you don't mind occasional Bible stories used the same as fables and myths I think you'd be fine.

Edited September 8, 2023 by SilverMoon

[Above The Rowan]

It's been ages, but I used and LOVED CW Homer with my now graduated kids. Once we found a steady weekly rhythm to the program it was fabulous. They grew exponentially. Fwiw they're both humanities kids who enjoy writing very much now, though perhaps not so much at that age.

 

My secular radar isn't worth much, but if you don't mind occasional Bible stories used the same as fables and myths I think you'd be fine.

Did you use the other subsequent levels of CW as well?

There's just something about it when I look through one level to the next, on the samples at least, that makes me feel like it's just right on the money. But I haven't seen many people who use it, so I was wondering if there's something about it that I'm overlooking.

[Critterfixer]

CW Homer was so much fun for us. I picked fairy tales according to plot and we worked through the program using our own models. Best year teaching writing we ever had, and I think most years of teaching writing are pretty fabulous. However, both of my kids are very much creative writers. We are currently working our way through the last part of WWS 1. It works a little better for my more analytical writer, but would kill my more creative writer if I didn't go through the whys and wherefores with him. 

There's a lot of explanation in WWS that tends to confuse my creative writer rather than make things clear. For me, that means I need to be pretty involved with WWS for it to work. But that would be true for most writing curriculum.

 

ETA: I am planning on going back with CW this fall. We'll see how it goes. I think they are ready to handle some of the literature selections in the higher levels this year, and they just weren't last year. I think WWS made a nice bridge--but we'll see.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Critterfixer

[SilverMoon]

Did you use the other subsequent levels of CW as well?

There's just something about it when I look through one level to the next, on the samples at least, that makes me feel like it's just right on the money. But I haven't seen many people who use it, so I was wondering if there's something about it that I'm overlooking.

We used Aesop through Diogenes if I recall correctly. CW used to be more popular when my graduates were young, and it was an official WTM recommendation. Many found it unwieldy to manage or couldn't wrap their brains around progymnasmata writing. WWE/WWS and couple more parent friendly progym programs hit the market, and CW faded off the boards.

 

There's also the guides and workbooks issue. The guides were written by one author to be all you really need to run the program. A loyal fan wrote the workbooks to make it easier to run. Because of copyright issues they couldn't be combined.

 

CW helped me learn how to teach writing and scaffold skills. ⤠I recommend just reading through the guide yourself, with a highlighter and pens. When you've got a grasp on how it works then look at the workbook its tm.

 

Fwiw, I did not use it with my next two kids. #3 is a stereotypical STEM guy who saw no reason for paragraphs when he could sum it up in five syllables. He used Wordsmith, Lost Tools, and such.

[Above The Rowan]

CW Homer was so much fun for us. I picked fairy tales according to plot and we worked through the program using our own models. Best year teaching writing we ever had, and I think most years of teaching writing are pretty fabulous. However, both of my kids are very much creative writers. We are currently working our way through the last part of WWS 1. It works a little better for my more analytical writer, but would kill my more creative writer if I didn't go through the whys and wherefores with him.

There's a lot of explanation in WWS that tends to confuse my creative writer rather than make things clear. For me, that means I need to be pretty involved with WWS for it to work. But that would be true for most writing curriculum.

 

ETA: I am planning on going back with CW this fall. We'll see how it goes. I think they are ready to handle some of the literature selections in the higher levels this year, and they just weren't last year. I think WWS made a nice bridge--but we'll see.

This is helpful to me actually.

When things are overexplained, my 6th grader gets really annoyed.

I think that, in theory, WWS looks more useful for him - I like the topics, I like the way it progresses, and I like that it would help him be a stronger writer across the curriculum. But I think it might be too much right now.

 

Maybe I'll do CW Homer now through into next year and then late 7th grade/early 8th grade I bet he'll be stronger and more ready for WWS, and then we can pick back up with a progym program in high school.

 

I am really glad I've asked this here. I'ts hard when you see two different programs that each both look good and like they could work. And unfortunately, up here in Ontario, CW is kind of a pricey program so I can't just get both hahaha. (That would be what I would normally do, get both and look them over, but that would be cost prohibitive here for both of these).

[8filltheheart]

Since you stated that cost is a factor, I will share an opposite perspective.  I really disliked Homer.  I thought Homer really made things far more complicated than necessary for kids to master solid writing skills.

[Above The Rowan]

We used Aesop through Diogenes if I recall correctly. CW used to be more popular when my graduates were young, and it was an official WTM recommendation. Many found it unwieldy to manage or couldn't wrap their brains around progymnasmata writing. WWE/WWS and couple more parent friendly progym programs hit the market, and CW faded off the boards.

 

There's also the guides and workbooks issue. The guides were written by one author to be all you really need to run the program. A loyal fan wrote the workbooks to make it easier to run. Because of copyright issues they couldn't be combined.

 

CW helped me learn how to teach writing and scaffold skills. ⤠I recommend just reading through the guide yourself, with a highlighter and pens. When you've got a grasp on how it works then look at the workbook its tm.

 

Fwiw, I did not use it with my next two kids. #3 is a stereotypical STEM guy who saw no reason for paragraphs when he could sum it up in five syllables. He used Wordsmith, Lost Tools, and such.

So, are the workbook and teacher guides unnecessary for CW? I'm a pretty confident teacher of language arts/writing/reading, but haven't ever taught the progym til now (and only just really starting with my 4th grader who recently jumped in to W&R)

 

Also, I'm glad you mentioned that about your STEM guy - - that's kind of my son. He loves science, wants to be an engineer (aerospace), doesn't care much for 'creative writing', but wants to write better because he'll need that to get into university here. He loves non-fiction, reads science encyclopedias as his bedtime reading, but has a HARD time putting any of what he's learning about down on paper, processing his thoughts and communicating them. I'm just having such a hard time figuring out which approach to take. Up til now we've been pretty relaxed about writing, largely Brave Writer-inspired. He and I agree though, that he needs to start digging down and learning to write more effectively.

 

This kid of mine...always makes me have to dig deep to find things that will work for him. Always a challenge lol.

[Critterfixer]

I needed the workbook and the teacher's book (as well as the core) to start with. I needed to see the way it would be organized first, and then I could adapt it to suit me and mine.

However, I do think Homer is really good for a creative writer who doesn't require a lot of scaffolding to write well. My most creative took off with it. The less creative one did well, but often required more assistance from me.

Compare that to this year where both are finishing WWS and the creative one is angry over the detailed instructions, the outlines and the incremental steps and the less creative one "loves outlines." 

Different kinds of writers need different approaches. I plan to go back to CW for both boys this fall, but I'm prepared to get WWS 2 if needed.

[Above The Rowan]

I needed the workbook and the teacher's book (as well as the core) to start with. I needed to see the way it would be organized first, and then I could adapt it to suit me and mine.

However, I do think Homer is really good for a creative writer who doesn't require a lot of scaffolding to write well. My most creative took off with it. The less creative one did well, but often required more assistance from me.

Compare that to this year where both are finishing WWS and the creative one is angry over the detailed instructions, the outlines and the incremental steps and the less creative one "loves outlines."

Different kinds of writers need different approaches. I plan to go back to CW for both boys this fall, but I'm prepared to get WWS 2 if needed.

My creative kiddo is my younger - she's in 4th grade and she is a very talented, natural writer. I just need to casually make a recommendation to her about writing, and off she goes with it. She's started Writing & Rhetoric Book Two and she really likes it. I think she'll do really well - but then, she does really well with anything writing or language related I throw at her.

 

My son sounds like your less creative one - I think he would appreciate more detailed instructions and really is a linear thinker who thrives on that kind of structure. I think he'll always need a really heavy dose of assistance from me with anything writing-related, so I don't mind working alongside him if need be.

 

I may just get the Homer set and try it out. If we need to swap over to WWS at some point, then...we can do that. Worst case, I just hang on to CW Homer until my daughter is ready to move into it. I have a feeling she is going to fly through W&R 2, so I bet it wouldn't be long before Homer.

 

Decisions, decisions...lol

[LMD]

Haven't read all the replies yet, I'm using Homer this year with my 7th grader and I love it. It's great! I read through the homer manual over the summer and got my head around it. I'm using it with our own books/passages rather than the student workbooks.

Okay, going back to read the thread properly.

[LMD]

Okay, my 7th grader is a pretty natural, creative writer. She had completed WWS1 before starting Homer. She did Aesop level about 3 years ago. We're doing the Older Beginner's track and it's just at the right challenge level. I only use the Core Homer text, it's not laid out like other teacher guides like lesson 1, 2... it's laid out by day and skill level. So each week, on Day 1 you're working on narrative skills (Theon's 6). So on day 1, you go to the Day 1 chapter and work on the next lesson/skill level. When I got my Homer Core text I wrote out the first 4 weeks of lessons to get my head around it. I'd heard all about the difficult to implement stories but I've found it pretty simple after putting in that work.

 

My current 5th grader is doing Aesop this year, he struggles with writing, but he's doing very well with it, likes it and will move on to Homer probably in mid-6th or 7th.

[LMD]

We used Aesop through Diogenes if I recall correctly. CW used to be more popular when my graduates were young, and it was an official WTM recommendation. Many found it unwieldy to manage or couldn't wrap their brains around progymnasmata writing. WWE/WWS and couple more parent friendly progym programs hit the market, and CW faded off the boards.

 

There's also the guides and workbooks issue. The guides were written by one author to be all you really need to run the program. A loyal fan wrote the workbooks to make it easier to run. Because of copyright issues they couldn't be combined.

 

CW helped me learn how to teach writing and scaffold skills. ⤠I recommend just reading through the guide yourself, with a highlighter and pens. When you've got a grasp on how it works then look at the workbook its tm.

 

Fwiw, I did not use it with my next two kids. #3 is a stereotypical STEM guy who saw no reason for paragraphs when he could sum it up in five syllables. He used Wordsmith, Lost Tools, and such.

My bold - I agree.

[Above The Rowan]

So, I think I'm going to pull the trigger on it.

He hasn't done Aesop, and by looking at samples and S&S online etc, it seems like I would be able to start him at Homer.

Is he missing anything important if I skip the Aesop level? Buying Aesop, Homer, AND the Older Beginner Guide/workbook is a bit cost prohibitive for me. I'd rather buy the Homer core, instructor guide, and workbook. But I also don't want him to be missing something critical in the Aesop level.

 

He's pretty comfortable orally narrating, will give me a written narration if I really push it, he's done the whole MCT Island level, and we're about to start Well Ordered Language together with his sister. I think he'd be really much happier with the Homer level readings and work, if we can just skip Aesop.

 

Thoughts?

[LMD]

If he's comfortable with narration, dictation, basic grammar and mechanics then he's probably fine skipping Aesop. Grammar covers types of sentences, punctuation, 8 parts of speech.

The writing projects in Aesop are rewriting Fables, focusing on dialogue and descriptive details.

[Above The Rowan]

Well. I took the leap, and ordered the Homer core, IG, and student text. It just arrived yesterday afternoon and holy smokes - I'm going to have to devote my weekend to getting my head around this.

 

BUT. It looks fantastic. I think this is just what we need. It does look a bit more complicated than the typical writing curriculum but from the reading I've done, it really does look like it will work for my son.

 

Wish me luck lol

[LMD]

On 3/10/2018 at 12:40 AM, Above The Rowan said:

Well. I took the leap, and ordered the Homer core, IG, and student text. It just arrived yesterday afternoon and holy smokes - I'm going to have to devote my weekend to getting my head around this.

 

BUT. It looks fantastic. I think this is just what we need. It does look a bit more complicated than the typical writing curriculum but from the reading I've done, it really does look like it will work for my son.

 

Wish me luck lol

Enjoy!

[TerriRMI]

On 3/9/2018 at 8:40 AM, Above The Rowan said:

Well. I took the leap, and ordered the Homer core, IG, and student text. It just arrived yesterday afternoon and holy smokes - I'm going to have to devote my weekend to getting my head around this.

 

BUT. It looks fantastic. I think this is just what we need. It does look a bit more complicated than the typical writing curriculum but from the reading I've done, it really does look like it will work for my son.

 

Wish me luck lol

We used it years ago and it is fantastic, nothing better in my eyes and well worth the time to figure out and to dol.