8 year old with Language Arts issues

[bwdiaz]

I have a daughter who is 8 and who is having problems with handwriting and with whom I need to do a little grammar this year. Theoretically she's a rising third grader.

 

Previously, I have been following a Charlotte Mason inspired path with her and took a better late than early attitude towards grammar. So I attempted to follow an early years copywork only approach for first and second grade. Well, it probably would have been fine because she does really well with other CM approaches to skill areas and reads, narrates, and spells really well - on grade level or better.

 

However, handwriting has been a huge issue. She hates it and whines and says it's too hard and her hand hurts after two seconds. She can write and makes lists of Minecraft things and captions pictures and other things. But she wouldn't write a letter or note and copywork brings on serious drama. She has sloppy printing despite three years of Getty Dubay workbooks. I keep attempting copywork but abandoned it both first and second grade in favor of continued letter practice.

 

From reading other threads here on the forum and from knowing my kid, I do not suspect a learning disability. I suspect a combination of my own inability to figure out the best approach for her with her own distaste for persevering through hard things. (The stories I have about swimming practice ... oy!)

 

Couple this with my personally considering a move away from CM methods for some subjects as well as the realization that we've done no grammar and she has to take a standardized test this year (third grade in PA) and I'm just not sure what to do. I'd love some feedback on some ideas I've been generating and I'm open to other ideas you all may have and I'm comfortable combining these options, I just don't know which.

 

1) She loves words and narration has been a great method of output for her so I'm considering English Lesson through Literature Level B. It would take a gentle approach to grammar through reading which is in line with things we've already been doing. However, it would still mean doing the dreaded copywork, at least they would be sentences both familiar and on her level.

 

2) Continue handwriting practice but switch to a more standard print style than italics or switch to cursive.

 

3) Or, alternatively, stop handwriting practice all together and accept that we can get back to that in a few years. Teach her to type maybe.

 

4) I own both Mosdos Opal and MCT Island Level. It's a bigger jump into grammar but she was interested in doing both when I showed them to her. Take a more classical approach to grammar than CM methods do. MCT at this stage has a lot of oral work and letting her do the student workbook for Mosdos would be some handwriting in her day without it being "official handwriting practice."

 

5) She has shown some interest in mythology and Latin (though we haven't started Latin because we've been doing our family languages of Spanish and Hebrew). She also loves Astronomy. I'm wondering if I go the typing route then I could get the Memoria Press guides for Astronomy and Greek Myths which complement each other and that would be her unofficial "writing but not handwriting practice." Then I could just do MCT or ELTL for grammar but not any handwriting work from either program.

 

?????? Suggestions ??????? My head has been going around and around on this.

Edited July 10, 2017 by bwdiaz

[OneStepAtATime]

Since swim practice was also an issue, have you looked into possible coordination issues?  Retained primitive reflexes?  Something else along those lines?

 

Also, have she ever had a full eye exam, not just a brief pediatric screening through a pediatrician?

 

For the physical act of writing specifically being "painful", maybe something like dysgraphia could be at play (many underlying causes)?  

 

While I agree that your other concerns may be at play, I have found that most kids that struggled that I know personally really did have an underlying undiagnosed issue that was beyond just poor exposure/bad attitude, etc.  I would delve deeper into possible underlying causes for her struggles while looking for options for immediate needs.  If there IS an underlying issue, it is better to discover it now IMHO, before the hormonal pre-teen years, than to wait and find out later that there were other things that could have been addressed to help her.

[Ellie]

I have a daughter who is 8 and who is having problems with handwriting and with whom I need to do a little grammar this year. Theoretically she's a rising third grader.

 

Previously, I have been following a Charlotte Mason inspired path with her and took a better late than early attitude towards grammar. So I attempted to follow an early years copywork only approach for first and second grade. Well, it probably would have been fine because she does really well with other CM approaches to skill areas and reads, narrates, and spells really well - on grade level or better.

 

However, handwriting has been a huge issue. She hates it and whines and says it's too hard and her hand hurts after two seconds. She can write and makes lists of Minecraft things and captions pictures and other things. But she wouldn't write a letter or note and copywork brings on serious drama. She has sloppy printing despite three years of Getty Dubay workbooks. I keep attempting copywork but abandoned it both first and second grade in favor of continued letter practice.

 

From reading other threads here on the forum and from knowing my kid, I do not suspect a learning disability. I suspect a combination of my own inability to figure out the best approach for her with her own distaste for persevering through hard things. (The stories I have about swimming practice ... oy!)

 

Couple this with my personally considering a move away from CM methods for some subjects as well as the realization that we've done no grammar and she has to take a standardized test this year (third grade in PA) and I'm just not sure what to do. I'd love some feedback on some ideas I've been generating and I'm open to other ideas you all may have and I'm comfortable combining these options, I just don't know which.

 

1) She loves words and narration has been a great method of output for her so I'm considering English Lesson through Literature Level B. It would take a gentle approach to grammar through reading which is in line with things we've already been doing. However, it would still mean doing the dreaded copywork, at least they would be sentences both familiar and on her level.

 

2) Continue handwriting practice but switch to a more standard print style than italics or switch to cursive.

 

3) Or, alternatively, stop handwriting practice all together and accept that we can get back to that in a few years. Teach her to type maybe.

 

4) I own both Mosdos Opal and MCT Island Level. It's a bigger jump into grammar but she was interested in doing both when I showed them to her. Take a more classical approach to grammar than CM methods do. MCT at this stage has a lot of oral work and letting her do the student workbook for Mosdos would be some handwriting in her day without it being "official handwriting practice."

 

5) She has shown some interest in mythology and Latin (though we haven't started Latin because we've been doing our family languages of Spanish and Hebrew). She also loves Astronomy. I'm wondering if I go the typing route then I could get the Memoria Press guides for Astronomy and Greek Myths which complement each other and that would be her unofficial "writing but not handwriting practice." Then I could just do MCT or ELTL for grammar but not any handwriting work from either program.

 

?????? Suggestions ??????? My head has been going around and around on this.

 

If you are pretty sure she has no learning issues that would keep her from having good penmanship, then I would definitely NOT wait a few years to work on it. Now is the time. If you're wanting something more traditional, there's Zaner Bloser. You can't get more traditional than that. :-) Also, good manuscript is important, but there's no reason not to also add in cursive, and a lovely cursive hand (besides the traditional ZB) is Spencerian. 

 

AFA grammar and annual testing, does PA require a certain score in specific subtests? Is a certain score required at all? Since this is the first year of required testing, would it not be the base line, and in subsequent years there would just need to be progress? IOW, I don't think testing should be your motivation for doing more formal grammar instruction; if you think she's ready, and she likes the materials you've been looking at, then do it.

 

[nixpix5]

Being that she writes when doing a highly preferred project (Minecraft) it does sound like she just needs to build up stamina for less preferred tasks in this area. I wouldn't wait as it will only become more challenging as years go by. ELTL level 2 has very gentle grammar introduction and quite honestly, the copy work isn't much. You follow the schedule 3x per week and it equates to a sentence or two. Not too bad. It is in line with WWE 1 in my opinion.

 

Could you just start her out by choosing copy work from highly salient sources (Minecraft books (do those exist?) Or some other preferred book?) Does she like to read? Maybe have her choose her copy work and start out with just a few words in a sentence and work up slowly.

 

What about Draw Write Now books. They are AWESOME and helped my reluctant writer a bunch. You draw a picture step by step and copy a sentence or two about it.

Edited July 10, 2017 by nixpix5

[ExcitedMama]

I think ELTL is great. There's even a separate workbook so the copywork can be done directly under the passage. There was another post where someone had mentioned getting a literature guide to go with the books in ELTL B. I think it's Alice in Wonderland so I think Memoria Press (MP) or Veritas Press (VP) have guides with questions that would expand on the story and sneak in more writing.

 

How is she with spelling? My DS really worked up his stamina with writing through All About Spelling (AAS). It has words, phrases and sentences. Writing With Ease (WWE) has copywork but also has short writing exercises. I can only speak to the first level but it's short copywork sentences and then an exercise like what did you remember from the passage? Each week is different passages from different stories like Rapunzel and Mary Poppins. Since she writes well when she is interested in something she might be willing to do so for an exercise like that. It's only a few lines so it's not much. Since the stories change it keeps it interesting and there is references to grammar built in. The exercises are included in the book so the copywork would be below the passage. Does she complain mostly about copywork? Or all schoolish writing? Would it help to sneak in a lot of small exercises? Like copywork in ELTL and writing exercises in WWE? Or writing for history and science. I don't think I make DS write a lot but he does a lot of small assignments so it's broken up and he doesn't complain about it.

 

I would think you might be better off moving slowly, like add in the grammar and work on improving her stamina before you add in something that is a lot more intense than she is used to. That could just lead to complaints and frustration. You can always add it in later when she is ready.

 

Does she like art? What about adding in some more art to improve her stamina and hand strength? Fun coloring books and fancy colored pencils or scented pencils. It's amazing how much more they will draw if they like what they are using. DS has gone through periods where he hates coloring but got over it when I gave him glitter crayons. When he was over it again I got him tracing paper. DD has never colored so much as she does now with scented colored pencils or gel pens. They love watercolor crayons.

 

Do you think hand strength is an issue? Does she like Legos? If she hasn't played with them much there are lots of fun girly sets like Friends or Elves. Spend more time with clay or play dough or sand.

[nixpix5]

I think ELTL is great. There's even a separate workbook so the copywork can be done directly under the passage. There was another post where someone had mentioned getting a literature guide to go with the books in ELTL B. I think it's Alice in Wonderland so I think Memoria Press (MP) or Veritas Press (VP) have guides with questions that would expand on the story and sneak in more writing.

We are doing this and it is a great way to sneak in some writing or to do some shared writing if it is too much.

 

The first book you start with in ELTL B is Wizard of Oz so I went to cure click and got a fantastic lap book download by World Study Guide. It is a great way to start the guides because there is a bunch of fun activities (little author study, book and movie comparison, recipes with a taste test, vocabulary etc) so definitely writing but fun writing!

 

The other books you will read (not in any order) Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan (Veritas Press has these study guides and they are great!) Blue Fairy (Memoria press has a guide...less impressive but still ok. Might be fun to make your own), Wind in the Willows (haven't found one I love yet but looking...), Wonder Book (I am making my own for this one).

 

I am using ELTL B as WWE1. The copy work follows close and I am just adding more narration. I think being thst you have been a CM home and looking to begin moving out of it a bit then ELTL bridges that gap beautifully I feel.

[coastalfam]

I was going to suggest ELTL level B. It was a great grammar and English program for my reluctant 8 year old last year. There is a lot of copywork, but like you said, it is completely enough to do copywork from something more motivating. It's all the same.

 

First, I would get a stress ball, and some other squishy balls, and youtube occupational therapy hand strength, and work on that this summer and through the school year. Strongly consider an occupational therapy consult, so you can learn some practice techniques to help your daughter build strength, improve pencil grasp, and writing stamina. Someone mentioned retained primitive reflexes, which is something my youngest child has, and he has major issues with writing and behavior in general. Therapy can be so helpful, and as a parent, you really learn a lot. It has helped me to be a better teacher to my two kids who really struggle. Ask your pediatrician for an referral.

 

Next, rewards can be so effective for working on a difficult skill kids are reluctant to do (think potty training!), and while it "feels" like bribery, your goal is that she will be willing to work on writing to build her stamina, and the reward can be faded later on. In my house full of boys, my rewards are things like Pokemon cards and Baseball cards, so something cheap that you can hand out frequently. It could be a homemade punch card that earns a punch toward a Starbucks visit or something. Whatever is most motivational, yet small.

 

For handwriting program practice. Maybe check out HLTL, by the same company as ELTL. It is a pdf, and you can print individual pages that are very simple. Or whatever you use keep it very simple, and unintimidating. Maybe do it at a different time of day as ELTL. If she really just needs stamina and practice and not letter formation practice, you could start teaching cursive or typing, maybe whatever is she feel super motivated to try. 

 

For copywork, you could use the ELTL passage, or something more motivating, but whatever it is, have her do just a tiny bit. You could highlight one sentence of ELTL copywork in the workbook (which I recommend for the sentence diagraming, by the way), and have her start with that. Or if she does something else, I might fold the composition paper in quarters, and tell her to do enough copywork to fill that quarter of a page (or whatever amount of a page would be easy enough that she would not bat an eye at you). The deal is that when copywork is done, she gets her little reward. And over the year, while also addressing any occupational therapy related issues, and working on hand strength, you slowly increase the amount of copywork she does... key word slowly. And just be so positive about her effort. It was a building up for my 3rd grader this year with ELTL copywork. By the end of the year he could do the entire passage.

 

Also, over the course of the school day, you can sneak in writing here and there in the form of a fun little worksheets or filling in MadLibs or a game that involves writing in responses. Something with short answers... like one word answers, at least at first. The idea is she would not see that as "writing" at all. Worksheets definitely have their sneaky uses in a CM driven education. ;) 

 

Anyway, those are some ideas we use to help our reluctant to do things kids, with writing, but also the same approach works with, say, working up to dunk ones head under water (which is my current campaign with my youngest son). Good luck!