Music mommas- help please! AP Music Theory vs RCM Theory?

[StephanieZ]

My kid was taking an AP exam this morning (Env Sci), and she noticed that there is an AP Music Theory exam, and she suggested that since she already studies so much theory, maybe she could take this exam pretty easily at some point. So, here I am, the nonmusical mom, trying to figure that out. Please help!

 

Does anyone have any idea how the Royal Conservatory of Music Theory tests compare to the AP Theory content?

 

My kid is taking the RCM Theory Exam next week, level 7. She takes the RCM exams (performance and theory) each year, and always does well. She's loves her piano teacher and piano in general, so she's planning to keep at this RCM stuff through all the levels eventually. Level 8 next year (9th grade) and then maybe taking 18 months or so with levels 9 & 10 to be done by high school graduation. SO, anyway, that means that she'll be doing theory continuously through high school. 

 

I'm wondering how the RCM content compares to the AP content? 

 

Would it be advisable to do the AP exam the year she finishes level 8 or 9 or 10 or is the AP content way beyond all the RCM content? (Now THAT would blow me away, because the theory she already does in level 7 seems insanely complicated to me, lol.)

 

Anyone have any idea?

 

 

[GoodGrief]

I can't speak to the RCM exam, as my daughter didn't do those. She played violin and piano from early childhood and was at a relatively advanced level when she did AP Music Theory her junior year. She took the course through PAH, did not simply self study.

 

The part that was tough for her was that there was some vocal work involved. She ultimately received a 5, but I know it wasn't a slam dunk, even after all the years of music study and taking the course itself.

[learners4life]

I can't say exactly, but my dd did the Music Teachers Association of California (MTAC) Certificate of Merit program.  The program has an approved list of songs and books, and the RCM books are listed.  DD used them throughout the higher levels -7,8,9, and 10(advanced), and the levels matched, i.e. a Level 9 RCM book was listed for Level 9 MTAC CM.  

 

My daughter did level 10 CM adjudication and AP Music Theory the same year.  That was simply the way it worked out. AP Music Theory was definitely the more rigorous of the two. There are some differences between the RCM and MTAC programs, but enough similar to make a good comparison.

[RootAnn]

I've seen several threads/posts about AP Music Theory over the years being ridiculously difficult.

FaithManor has commented on it.

 

Here is a 2014 thread talking about the results for one AP Music class. Here's an older thread (2011) just talking about the AP Music Theory exam (self study, class, etc.).

Here's a Nov 2015 thread on the AP Music Theory exam which would give you some leads on other people whose kids have taken it recently. (Curious - anyone else have a student taking AP Music Theory)

 

Dicentra has a kid who has done RCM stuff. I can't remember if her daughter also took AP Music Theory, but she might be able to shed light on the exam/RCM.

[Dicentra]

My kid was taking an AP exam this morning (Env Sci), and she noticed that there is an AP Music Theory exam, and she suggested that since she already studies so much theory, maybe she could take this exam pretty easily at some point. So, here I am, the nonmusical mom, trying to figure that out. Please help!

 

Does anyone have any idea how the Royal Conservatory of Music Theory tests compare to the AP Theory content?

 

My kid is taking the RCM Theory Exam next week, level 7. She takes the RCM exams (performance and theory) each year, and always does well. She's loves her piano teacher and piano in general, so she's planning to keep at this RCM stuff through all the levels eventually. Level 8 next year (9th grade) and then maybe taking 18 months or so with levels 9 & 10 to be done by high school graduation. SO, anyway, that means that she'll be doing theory continuously through high school. 

 

I'm wondering how the RCM content compares to the AP content? 

 

Would it be advisable to do the AP exam the year she finishes level 8 or 9 or 10 or is the AP content way beyond all the RCM content? (Now THAT would blow me away, because the theory she already does in level 7 seems insanely complicated to me, lol.)

 

Anyone have any idea?

 

I just saw your post and asked dd a few questions.  Just to clarify, though - when you say your dd is doing Level 7 theory next week, does that correspond (sort of) to the old Intermediate Rudiments?  I think it does but the RCM has also incorporated some additional topics like basic melody writing in the earlier levels of theory now.

 

In answer to your question, AP Music Theory is MUCH, MUCH harder than the theory she's doing now.  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!  Dd has done all of the RCM theory exams up to and including the old Intermediate Harmony (which is kind of like the new Level 10).  She didn't find AP Music Theory that difficult (got a 5 when she took it as a 10th grade student) but I think that's because she had so much RCM theory under her belt.  AP and RCM also use many different terms for the same things so dd found she had to get used to that, too.

 

Dd's suggestion is for your dd to complete Level 8 RCM theory and if she does well on that (First Class Honours or First Class Honours with Distinction), then she should be adequately prepared for AP Music Theory.  She will still have to work hard and there will be a lot of new material (AP Music Theory covers everything from Level 8 RCM theory in the first month or two) but if she enjoys music and is good at it, she should enjoy the challenge.  Oh - and there's also a sight singing section on the AP Music Theory exam so your dd should be prepared to sing and be recorded.  That's how they mark that section. :)

 

Best of luck to your dd on her RCM exams!

[StephanieZ]

I just saw your post and asked dd a few questions.  Just to clarify, though - when you say your dd is doing Level 7 theory next week, does that correspond (sort of) to the old Intermediate Rudiments?  I think it does but the RCM has also incorporated some additional topics like basic melody writing in the earlier levels of theory now.

 

In answer to your question, AP Music Theory is MUCH, MUCH harder than the theory she's doing now.  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!  Dd has done all of the RCM theory exams up to and including the old Intermediate Harmony (which is kind of like the new Level 10).  She didn't find AP Music Theory that difficult (got a 5 when she took it as a 10th grade student) but I think that's because she had so much RCM theory under her belt.  AP and RCM also use many different terms for the same things so dd found she had to get used to that, too.

 

Dd's suggestion is for your dd to complete Level 8 RCM theory and if she does well on that (First Class Honours or First Class Honours with Distinction), then she should be adequately prepared for AP Music Theory.  She will still have to work hard and there will be a lot of new material (AP Music Theory covers everything from Level 8 RCM theory in the first month or two) but if she enjoys music and is good at it, she should enjoy the challenge.  Oh - and there's also a sight singing section on the AP Music Theory exam so your dd should be prepared to sing and be recorded.  That's how they mark that section. :)

 

Best of luck to your dd on her RCM exams!

 

Thank you! Very helpful!

 

They redid the nomenclature for the levels of RCM exams in 2016, so now it's just Level 7 Performance and Level 7 Theory, nice and simple, lol, so we don't have to remember which thing to sign up for anymore. (Thank goodness! I was always so confused!)

 

She has always scored 80+ on everything, generally 90+ on the performance and either 80+ or 90+ for theory, IIRC, she always gets honors with distinction or some other fancy sounding thing. The last two years, level 6 and level 4 before that (her teacher had her skip level 5, as her repertoire was too advanced for the earlier levels, so it made sense to skip a level), she was the top score in our state on performance, but I'm not sure if she got that for theory, or maybe it was combined last year (when theory was required? which it was at some point?). I don't pay a whole lot of attention or understand any of this very well, which is rather terrible, I know, lol. I just know she does great, and we do whatever her teacher says to do, lol. 

 

She does enjoy the theory, and, honestly, she spends very little time on it so far -- I think she just absorbs it really easily, as she's been playing instruments since she was 20 months old (really, lol) and sort of lives and breathes music. Her piano teacher's husband is a recently retired composition professor, and he actually taught her composition for a year or so (having her play her pieces for his grad students!) a couple years ago, because she was so into composing at that time. Between her teacher and the composer-professor, she has gotten a lot of theory just in lessons, etc. And then, of course, she does the RCM workbook and her teacher checks them (sometimes with help from her husband if she runs out of time and he's available). 

 

She's a singer, too, so I don't think the sight singing will be a problem, but thanks for the heads up. She'd definitely need to do targeted prep for the AP exam, presumably with some prep book or text/etc. (She's also an old time fiddler, plays banjo, mandolin, and guitar, and whatever else she picks up at a jam, lol.)

 

So far as what level level 7 is, here is a link for the details . . . http://www.rcmusic.ca/celebrate-theory/theory-syllabus-2016  

 

It looks like the old Intermediate Rudiments was new level 6 (last year), and now Level 7 (next week) is new and stuck between the old Intermediate Rudiments and Advanced Rudiments. Level 8 (what she'll do starting next month) is equivalent to the old Advanced Rudiments.

 

Level 9, 10, and ARCT each have several components: Harmony, History, Keyboard Harmony, and for ARCT there is a 4th component: Analysis. 

 

So, I guess next year, when she does Level 8 (probably in the fall, as I think she's going to do theory in the fall and performance in the spring from here on out), she'll be done with the "Rudiments" stuff and then moving on to the multi-faceted Level 9 theory stuff . . . 

 

There's no rush for her to do the AP exam (she's just finishing 8th grade), so if you and your daughter think the RCM materials will continue to prepare her for the AP exam up through all the levels of RCM, then she can just wait until 11th or 12th grade when she's done with most or all the RCM theory stuff she's going to do and has time to do targeted prep for the AP exam. Or, if the RCM stuff stops overlapping with AP materials at some point (level 8?), then she can do the AP exam in 9th or 10th grade . . . or whenever! LOL, I don't even know if there's a testing center in my region that offers this exam. I might have to do some major sweet talking with the local high school . . .

 

Any more thoughts?? What do you think? 

 

Did your daughter take a class for the Music Theory AP or did she self-study? Did she go on to study music in college?

 

THANK YOU!!!!

 

[counselinggirl]

I can't speak to the RCM exam, as my daughter didn't do those. She played violin and piano from early childhood and was at a relatively advanced level when she did AP Music Theory her junior year. She took the course through PAH, did not simply self study.

 

The part that was tough for her was that there was some vocal work involved. She ultimately received a 5, but I know it wasn't a slam dunk, even after all the years of music study and taking the course itself.

Gr8lander did you feel the PAH course prepared her well for the exam? How was the course/teacher? Organized?

 

We are considering this exam and course for her Junior year (currently a Freshman) and would also love some info. My dd has not had a huge amount of theory; although she is a singer (since she was 4) and plays a piano/guitar/ukulele (as a beginner).

[Dicentra]

Thank you! Very helpful!

 

They redid the nomenclature for the levels of RCM exams in 2016, so now it's just Level 7 Performance and Level 7 Theory, nice and simple, lol, so we don't have to remember which thing to sign up for anymore. (Thank goodness! I was always so confused!)

 

She has always scored 80+ on everything, generally 90+ on the performance and either 80+ or 90+ for theory, IIRC, she always gets honors with distinction or some other fancy sounding thing. The last two years, level 6 and level 4 before that (her teacher had her skip level 5, as her repertoire was too advanced for the earlier levels, so it made sense to skip a level), she was the top score in our state on performance, but I'm not sure if she got that for theory, or maybe it was combined last year (when theory was required? which it was at some point?). I don't pay a whole lot of attention or understand any of this very well, which is rather terrible, I know, lol. I just know she does great, and we do whatever her teacher says to do, lol. 

 

She does enjoy the theory, and, honestly, she spends very little time on it so far -- I think she just absorbs it really easily, as she's been playing instruments since she was 20 months old (really, lol) and sort of lives and breathes music. Her piano teacher's husband is a recently retired composition professor, and he actually taught her composition for a year or so (having her play her pieces for his grad students!) a couple years ago, because she was so into composing at that time. Between her teacher and the composer-professor, she has gotten a lot of theory just in lessons, etc. And then, of course, she does the RCM workbook and her teacher checks them (sometimes with help from her husband if she runs out of time and he's available). 

 

She's a singer, too, so I don't think the sight singing will be a problem, but thanks for the heads up. She'd definitely need to do targeted prep for the AP exam, presumably with some prep book or text/etc. (She's also an old time fiddler, plays banjo, mandolin, and guitar, and whatever else she picks up at a jam, lol.)

 

So far as what level level 7 is, here is a link for the details . . . http://www.rcmusic.ca/celebrate-theory/theory-syllabus-2016

 

It looks like the old Intermediate Rudiments was new level 6 (last year), and now Level 7 (next week) is new and stuck between the old Intermediate Rudiments and Advanced Rudiments. Level 8 (what she'll do starting next month) is equivalent to the old Advanced Rudiments.

 

Level 9, 10, and ARCT each have several components: Harmony, History, Keyboard Harmony, and for ARCT there is a 4th component: Analysis. 

 

So, I guess next year, when she does Level 8 (probably in the fall, as I think she's going to do theory in the fall and performance in the spring from here on out), she'll be done with the "Rudiments" stuff and then moving on to the multi-faceted Level 9 theory stuff . . . 

 

There's no rush for her to do the AP exam (she's just finishing 8th grade), so if you and your daughter think the RCM materials will continue to prepare her for the AP exam up through all the levels of RCM, then she can just wait until 11th or 12th grade when she's done with most or all the RCM theory stuff she's going to do and has time to do targeted prep for the AP exam. Or, if the RCM stuff stops overlapping with AP materials at some point (level 8?), then she can do the AP exam in 9th or 10th grade . . . or whenever! LOL, I don't even know if there's a testing center in my region that offers this exam. I might have to do some major sweet talking with the local high school . . .

 

Any more thoughts?? What do you think? 

 

Did your daughter take a class for the Music Theory AP or did she self-study? Did she go on to study music in college?

 

THANK YOU!!!!

 

 

Your dd will definitely find that RCM will help prepare her for AP Music Theory.  AP MT has lot of harmony and counterpoint stuff in it - that's the stuff that starts getting taught in earnest at the old Intro Harmony, Intermediate Harmony, and Advanced Harmony & Analysis levels (now Level 9, Level 10, and ARCT).  Just a small correction - if your dd does Harmony, she doesn't need to also do Keyboard Harmony - it's one or the other.  My dd is currently working on her ARCT in Piano Performance and the theory that she'll need to get the full diploma is ARCT History (was History 3), ARCT Harmony (was Advanced Harmony & Counterpoint), and ARCT Analysis (was Analysis).  I think in the old system, a student could choose between Counterpoint and Analysis - now, they end up taking both.

 

That's excellent that your dd has done some composition!!  My dd composes as well. :)  I think that will definitely help with AP Music Theory.  I enrolled dd in the AP Music Theory class through AP Homeschoolers - I'm a chem teacher with a music background and the stuff in AP MT is WAY beyond what I learned. :D  I'd say a class is a good idea if you're not familiar with the material yourself.

 

Dd is still in Grade 11 so no university yet. :)  She's not sure if she wants to study music or not at uni - right now, she's leaning towards science.  That may change. :)

 

I think your dd will enjoy her theory studies!  It certainly complements the performance aspect of music.

[GoodGrief]

Gr8lander did you feel the PAH course prepared her well for the exam? How was the course/teacher? Organized?

 

We are considering this exam and course for her Junior year (currently a Freshman) and would also love some info. My dd has not had a huge amount of theory; although she is a singer (since she was 4) and plays a piano/guitar/ukulele (as a beginner).

 

She did it her junior year, and I do think it prepared her fairly well. It's been two years now, but I recall the course being well organized. It's a tough exam though!