Foerster Algebra has been slow - advice needed!

[abrightmom]

DS14 is using Foerster Algebra as an 8th grader this year. Overall I'd say he is doing well in terms of understanding BUT the pace is terribly slow. I'm ashamed to say he's just finishing chapter 7 and he has yet to complete the comprehensive review at the end of chapter 6. It will likely take two weeks to move through both of these. 

 

The biggest problem has been my slowness in being available to help him and keep him on task. He has gaps in executive function; he is highly distractible, restless and has no sense of the passing of time. He is classic ADD-Inattentive and it has really hurt his school year and caused friction in our relationship. But he is intelligent and he CARES which is a blessing to both of us. He has struggled with feeling like a failure because he wants to finish strong. He is also eager to finish Algebra and move on to Geometry. He really does want to pursue math in high school .... 

 

If I could go back to last August I'd move heaven and earth to outsource Algebra for him. He understands it but sometimes needs the structured help of someone sitting with him and requiring him to walk through the lesson IF it is tricky. He lacks the study skills and I've found this year that I have to sit alongside him for so much more than I'd planned to. I'm truly surprised at how difficult it is for him to pay attention, work the problems with the teaching video, etc. He's scattered; forgets to get the textbook and his paper/pencil out, and will watch the video and then it's hot/cold with how he applies that to the problems. He has amazing days and terrible days .... but if I sit with him, watch the videos and we do "buddy math" it is perfect. He thrives, he soars, and he finishes. 

 

In February I registered him for Geometry with Jann in TX and that course begins early September. I am VERY excited about Jann teaching my children upper level maths. As of now, I think he should do Algebra again and he'd probably fly and achieve absolute mastery. But, it really hurts and it isn't what he wants to do. It may be what is necessary. He was an EXCELLENT and strong student K-7. I don't know why 8th has been so terribly difficult for him. We used to do more math together but I've been so busy with teaching this year that I was more hands off in the beginning in hopes he'd be good on his own. The other bummer is he is registered for Clover Creek Physics and I think we'll have to drop out if he can't be finished with Algebra by August. 

 

PLEASE share your thoughts based on what I've shared. I've been pondering many options but I know this. 9th grade will be challenging enough for him. I do not want to double up on math so we won't do Algebra and Geometry concurrently. I did briefly consider allowing him to finish Foerster's at the pace he is going and doing an "easy" Geometry such as MUS. I worry about regretting the MUS decision. We will keep at math throughout summer with no extended breaks other than vacation. 

[MarkT]

sample syllabus for reference:

http://kolbe.org/files/9614/1027/6728/Algebra1Foerster2014SemesterSAMPLE.pdf

 

If your student continues through some of the summer than he should have enough Algebra to take both Geometry and Clover Creek Physics. 

The following year you could finish Algebra 1 before moving on to Algebra 2.

[dereksurfs]

Katrina, I'm glad you've realized he needs that structure and accountability now. I really do think it will help him.

 

I highly recommend you speak with Jetta specifically about her course requirements explaining your situation - where you are at. Not only is she a great instructor, but she really cares about her students and does everything she can to help them thrive. Find out from Jetta what exactly he will need in terms of algebraic concepts. Then, if you can continue on as MarkT suggests, soldier on through the Summer. Keep moving forward as long as he is understanding the material. Also keep in mind that even online courses do not necessarily cover *every* section of *every* chapter. Sometimes they skip whole chapters entirely.

 

I would also consult with Jann about this as he prepares for her Algebra 2 course. You could always do some Khan academy sessions on gaps as well if necessary just to introduce a new topic.

 

Depending upon their advice and how he does, he may simply need the extra time in Algebra 1. Many students take two years to really absorb Algebra 1 which becomes the foundation for other math and science courses to follow. I know this is a tough choice. For our middle dd who struggles with math, I want to allow her all the time she will need to really grasp Algebra 1. If its a year, fine, a year and a half, also fine, two years, then so be it.

Edited April 15, 2017 by dereksurfs

[MamaSprout]

Also, how much are you assigning? Most people assign odds or evens.

[GoodGrief]

He sounds very much like my oldest daughter. Are you doing any therapy for the ADD to learn coping skills? I so wish that we had back when she was in high school.

 

One thing that will probably continue to be true is that he will need someone to keep him on track by being there physically. It's very tough.

 

As far as the algebra, I see no problem doing algebra for 9th grade. But another option is dropping Foerster now and doing intensive Alg 1 over the summer with a different curric, like Teaching Textbooks or MUS. Regular tutoring sessions were huge for my daughter. It kept her moving along because she knew there were things that had to be done before the next session.

 

But again, it might be a nice break for him to just drop math completely for now, and start fresh with Algebra and a new curric in the fall. The idea of taking a break for a few months may help him get over the disappointment of repeating algebra.

 

I would hold off on physics, and do biology for 9th. My math-y daughter did great with physics in 9th, but it was way better for my other daughter to do the sequence in reverse.

[abrightmom]

Thanks for the helpful advice and the wonderful food for thought.  :coolgleamA:

 

We are still waiting for the special ADHD appointment that takes months to get into. I have never wanted to do any sort of diagnosing but it's clear I need to :). I've done extensive reading and researching. As of now he has a VERY trim schedule because our relationship was falling apart due to the stress. I AM worried about high school. I have an intelligent child with a high need for mental stimulation with a brain that won't let him focus or attend well, motor skills that drive him batty and low working memory. He's scattered and distracted and mad at himself for it. It's been a crazy 8th grade year; how I wish we were wrapping up 7th so I'd have 8th to figure out this ADHD/EF business. 

 

Anyhow, about the Algebra:

 

I am assigning evens for the lessons; occasionally we do fewer than what is assigned if it's a fairly easy section and other times we practice a bit more.

 

He IS mathy! Just slow and distracted and easily discouraged. And he has ME for a facilitator and partner in math when what he clearly needed was an available instructor. With that I am certain he would've kept the pace just fine. 

 

Still on the fence re: physics. I've chatted with both Jann and Jetta. They're helpful and gracious but the final decision rests with me. Giving up that seat in Physics will be tough if it comes down to that. We're in the thick of making a high school plan now and re-thinking homeschool. I'll need to ask for ideas elsewhere on home vs structured school for a teen with ADHD of an intense variety! 

 

Thank-you! 

[dereksurfs]

Wow Katrina,

 

That's a lot to consider. I'm glad you got to talk with Jann and Jetta. They're fantastic teachers as well as very caring human beings. 

 

Regarding rethinking homeschooling, that's a big one, especially given the challenges your son faces. It will be interesting to hear about what resources are available and if those may provide him more than you can from home. Obviously, outsourcing will play a major role regardless. I guess it comes down to what you feel will be the best fit for him. My only concern with public or private schools would be the ability to really tailor things to his needs vs. more of a one size fits all approach. But I guess much depends on your local district and the services which are available. If possible, I would try to find some locals in similar situations to get feedback from them. Let us know how things go. Even without all these issues, I know a lot of homeschool families who opt out after middle school for a variety of reasons. High School is another level up in terms of planning, coordination, preparing for college, etc...

Edited April 20, 2017 by dereksurfs

[abrightmom]

Wow Katrina,

 

That's a lot to consider. I'm glad you got to talk with Jann and Jetta. They're fantastic teachers as well as very caring human beings. 

 

Regarding rethinking homeschooling, that's a big one, especially given the challenges your son faces. It will be interesting to hear about what resources are available and if those may provide him more than you can from home. Obviously, outsourcing will play a major role regardless. I guess it comes down to what you feel will be the best fit for him. My only concern with public or private schools would be the ability to really tailor things to his needs vs. more of a one size fits all approach. But I guess much depends on your local district and the services which are available. If possible, I would try to find some locals in similar situations to get feedback from them. Let us know how things go. Even without all these issues, I know a lot of homeschool families who opt out after middle school for a variety of reasons. High School is another level up in terms of planning, coordination, preparing for college, etc...

:iagree:

 

We are not going to use the public school system here. They can take my taxes but not my kid! We have many friends who are quite happy with the public schools but I'm not interested in my child spending hours there and then bringing home hours of homework. THAT is why private school is also of concern. THERE he'd get the type of courses I'd like to expose him to, the structure and perhaps some vocational exploration opportunities BUT he'd have that heavy homework load. It seems unavoidable. I know him and he'll be exhausted after school with little capacity for hours of homework. 

 

We outsourced one fantastic course this year through Wilson Hill Academy. It's been a tough class for him but up until this week he was holding onto an A! He's started to really struggle this last quarter; the university model with two 90 minute courses is MUCH harder than I'd imagined. It's tough for him to SIT for that long and STAY ENGAGED. He loves literature but really just zones out and tires out more quickly than I'd realized. This leads to him being distracted and wanting to click to a more interesting webpage while still listening to the lecture. He gets into something and has a very difficult time not thinking on it or talking about it constantly (i.e. cubing, gaming). We have four years of high school ahead of us and a lot can happen in that time but I know my limits and we're trampling on them this year. I had previously planned to outsource but the difficulty he has with staying engaged has short circuited my planning. I imagined a far different scenario for my son. There is a lot of "heart work" going on here right now .... and much to be thankful for in the midst of the struggles. We'll find our way. It won't be perfect or ideal but we'll do our best with the resources and tools we have! That is all we CAN do. Controlling outcomes isn't in my purview. 

[Soror]

Wow, he sounds so much like my son, he turns 13 this summer. I tried him on MUS pre-A this year to free up some time for me, I thought perhaps going back to easier math would allow him to be able to work better on his own. He didn't do horrible BUT I don't know that he learned anything, for one because it as easy and two because he still needed that support. We switched to AoPS pre-Algebra half-way through the year. I sit with him nearly all of his math time, sometimes I'm just there for support and questions and sometimes we work stuff out together. It is actually going fairly well, we made it half-way through AoPS pre-A. I'm not sure that an online class would be the solution for ds, at least not the full solution because they still have to keep task on homework, of course maybe if there is someone else doing instructing and grading it will free enough time for you giving him support during homework will be easier. 

 

I'm STILL not 100% certain what I will do for math for ds. One thing I do know is that anything with a ton of problems does not work at all. I've strongly considered Videotext because I think the format of short lessons with fewer problems would be good and it is supposed to conceptually sound. I'm also considering Arbor Algebra, he did well with JA, we liked the way they explained things and lessons were manageable. I have Jacobs here too as the Arbor books are based on it and it is cheaper but I've heard it is not as engaging as Arbor School. Lastly, I'm considering continuing on with AoPS Algebra. I have Forester Algebra here as it is well-reviewed but just looking at it I think there are too many problems, we'd never get through it.

 

 

For my ds because he does need that support in the main subjects our non-core work is lighter, I've made peace with that, the 3Rs are foundational. We've got the 3R's, he reads a ton and we discuss stuff, that's about it.

Edited April 20, 2017 by soror

[deerforest]

Honestly, those first 7 chapters of Foerster's felt like they would never end, and I don't require all problems. Things have gone much faster after that, and now I think we might actually finish Foerster's this year. But, I'm going back through algebra 1 with AoPS next year. I have been moderately content with Foerster's. DD has mastered most of it, but it doesn't feel like the level of mastery we've become accustomed to. I don't know what we're going to do long term because AoPS works best for her to do it after a traditional program. I think I care most about algebra 1, and we have time to do it for another year.

 

I guess I have no advice other than commiseration about how long Foerster's takes.

[Soror]

Honestly, those first 7 chapters of Foerster's felt like they would never end, and I don't require all problems. Things have gone much faster after that, and now I think we might actually finish Foerster's this year. But, I'm going back through algebra 1 with AoPS next year. I have been moderately content with Foerster's. DD has mastered most of it, but it doesn't feel like the level of mastery we've become accustomed to. I don't know what we're going to do long term because AoPS works best for her to do it after a traditional program. I think I care most about algebra 1, and we have time to do it for another year.

 

I guess I have no advice other than commiseration about how long Foerster's takes.

I'm thinking about doing another program and then hit AoPS Algebra- although I keep hearing everyone say he will be prepared for it since he is doing pre-A, my experience with him as a student is that he needs to hit things multiple times from different angles to get it to stick, no matter how "good" the program I don't think 1 pass through is going to work.