I am amazed at some of the comments regarding universal health care.

[TeacherZee]

Holy cow, the top tax bracket is 77%. Wow.

 

Someone earning $3700/month ($44,400/year) would pay $13,320 - $14,208 in local tax. In the States, a typical married couple with income of $44,400 a year, a home with a mortgage, and a couple of kids pays nothing or very little for federal and state income taxes.

 

Out of curiosity, do you also have a federal income tax? Sales tax? Property tax? Gas tax? Or do you just pay the one tax and then you're done?

 

Not 77%

 

You pay 32% on the first $3700. Then you pay 20% on the amount between $3700 and $5500 and then 25% on the amount above $5500.

 

The 20% and 25% is state (or federal) taxes so you don't pay federal taxes if you make less than $3700.

 

We do pay sales tax at 25%. It is included in the price of the good. Some goods have a reduced rate at 12% (food is included in this) or 6%. Some

 

We do pay property tax what it is depends on where you live. We don't have high property taxes where I live.

 

You really really really don't want to know what we pay for gas and the majority of it is tax ($8/gallon)

 

Please remember that we get a lot back from the state too. As I said in one of my other entries if you have children you get a grant from the state of $140/month /child (plus more if you have more children). Everyone has by law 4 weeks holiday/year paid. You don't get paid on your first sick day but after that you get paid at 80% of your pay. We have a years paid parental leave. We don't pay much for our health care. Education is publicly funded through vouchers that can be used in religious schools as well. Home schooling is allowed but not prevalent (something I learned on this board, I thought it wasn't). University education is free and you can get a grant for a certain number of weeks (enough to get a medical degree but I can't remember the exact amount now) plus student loans. These loans and grants are dependent on the students income not the parents so for example my brother gets the grant but my parents help him out as well so he will not have to take loans. The list could go on but I think you get the idea :).

 

I don't mind the taxes because I feel that I get my moneys worth for what we pay in taxes. And most people do have money left over at the end of the month (unless you know they live over their means) and when I say money left over most people go on holiday abroad most years. Thailand is increasingly popular :D But plenty of people also go to Florida :D

Edited October 18, 2008 by TeacherZee
to add somethign in the taxes bit

[jacqui in mo]

Thanks, that helps. Very interesting. How often would health care professionals get themselves investigated and why would that be something they'd want to do? Jacqui

[TeacherZee]

Thanks, that helps. Very interesting. How often would health care professionals get themselves investigated and why would that be something they'd want to do? Jacqui

 

Well I don't think this happens to often (I don't know the ins and outs of this exactly and my mum who I would normally ask is away on a girls weekend so here goes from me and wiki). The law is commonly known as Lex Maria and it is a real law that says that health care professionals are legally bound to report if a patient has been injured or there was a risk of the patient being injured in the course of treatment. The name comes from when four patients were mistakenly injected with disinfectant instead of anastetics.

 

I googled Lex Maria and found a case in a Swedish News paper about an ambulance that went to the wrong address so the patient didn't get treatment in time. This would be a case when this would apply.

 

Another case involves a woman who had her ovary removed instead of her appendix.

 

The law says that the hospital has to report these things even if the patient or the patients family does not.

 

I think it happens fairly often actually. I don't have any statistics but a simple google search has brought up several different cases so...

[jacqui in mo]

Thank you again.

[Jean too]

May I ask what % of your income is taken for taxes? Never mind. I see that was addressed. No thanks to universal coverage at that tax rate. Outrageous!

Edited October 18, 2008 by Jean too

[TeacherZee]

Never mind

[BabyBre]

I'm embarrassed to be an American right now. I wonder if other countries are laughing at us or feeling sorry for us. :confused:

 

Wow. I can't keep quiet at that.

 

I'm sure most every entity, whether a country, a family, a large corporation, etc, has events or times in its history that were difficult or that they're not proud of, but perserverance and endurance is what makes them stand the test of time.

 

Attitudes like above are what will be this great nation's end. America has lost her intended direction and it will likely get worse before it gets any better. But either our pride will bind us together and empower us to rise back up, or the lack of it will tear us apart. I hope I live long enough to see the former.

 

This may not be our shining moment in history, but at least realize that you're part of something greater. Countless lives have been given for you to be here and, while the citizens of some countries may be looking down at us, those of just as many other nations are looking up.

[TeacherZee]

Okay I am just going to post one more thing and then I am going to go to bed.

 

Those taxes pay for a lot of things that by comments here I am thinking you will not want in the states. Things we choose. All of those taxes don't go to health care.

 

We don't pay tuition fees at university. None what so ever.

 

We have grants for students, that most students qualify for as they are based on the students income not the parents.

 

They pay for 12 months parental leave.

 

They pay for sick pay.

 

In addition to this there are fewer of us. There are only 9million people living in this country.

 

There was a documentary on TV in the spring following MidWifes at a large hospital. In one of the episodes they interviewed on of them who had come from a smaller hospital. She said that sometimes they only had on birth a week in that hospital. Despite there only being 9milion people we are spread quite thin and so we can't necessarily get the economies of scale you could in a larger system. Our health care is going to cost more. Just because are taxes are what they are they might not be that in the states under a universal system.

 

In addition to this consider what you would have to pay for a premium if you got everything covered, add in the cost for any co-pay over $120/year plus any medication cost over $240/year for each adult and any co-pay for children. Add in the cost in your time it takes to fill out forms with your insurance company when you want to claim something, any time you have spent on the phone with your insurance company over the last year. Now do that as a percentage. I don't think I pay more.

 

Any typos or anything that doesn't make sense in that post is entirely due to the fact that it is after 1am now and I am getting crosseyed. :D

 

It has been very interesting Ladies (and any gents I missed)

[Ria]

Not 77%

 

You pay 32% on the first $3700. Then you pay 20% on the amount between $3700 and $5500 and then 25% on the amount above $5500.

 

The 20% and 25% is state (or federal) taxes so you don't pay federal taxes if you make less than $3700.

 

We do pay sales tax at 25%. It is included in the price of the good. Some goods have a reduced rate at 12% (food is included in this) or 6%. Some

 

We do pay property tax what it is depends on where you live. We don't have high property taxes where I live.

 

You really really really don't want to know what we pay for gas and the majority of it is tax ($8/gallon)

 

Please remember that we get a lot back from the state too. As I said in one of my other entries if you have children you get a grant from the state of $140/month /child (plus more if you have more children). Everyone has by law 4 weeks holiday/year paid. You don't get paid on your first sick day but after that you get paid at 80% of your pay. We have a years paid parental leave. We don't pay much for our health care. Education is publicly funded through vouchers that can be used in religious schools as well. Home schooling is allowed but not prevalent (something I learned on this board, I thought it wasn't). University education is free and you can get a grant for a certain number of weeks (enough to get a medical degree but I can't remember the exact amount now) plus student loans. These loans and grants are dependent on the students income not the parents so for example my brother gets the grant but my parents help him out as well so he will not have to take loans. The list could go on but I think you get the idea :).

 

I don't mind the taxes because I feel that I get my moneys worth for what we pay in taxes. And most people do have money left over at the end of the month (unless you know they live over their means) and when I say money left over most people go on holiday abroad most years. Thailand is increasingly popular :D But plenty of people also go to Florida :D

 

This amount of taxation would destroy our family. We simply could not afford to live.

 

Ria

[LizzyBee]

Not 77%

 

You pay 32% on the first $3700. Then you pay 20% on the amount between $3700 and $5500 and then 25% on the amount above $5500.

 

Ah, sorry. I misread your original post.

[Hillary in KS]

I've lived in a cuntry with socialized health care and was horrified by the condition of punlic hospitals. True, the care was free but- ew!

 

At the time, I was also shocked by the fact that C-sections were strongly encouraged because they could be scheduled and fit into the system's structure better than natural labor.

 

A family member close to us needed to be admitted to the hospital, and paid for care in a private hospital, rather than chance the public one.

 

Here in the States I have several friends from Canada. Nearly all say (when I've asked them) that the people who rave about socialized medicine there have never had a seriously ill parent or child. That changed their minds about the system, and they prefer it here.

[TraceyS/FL]

and when I say money left over most people go on holiday abroad most years. Thailand is increasingly popular :D But plenty of people also go to Florida :D

 

One of the most impressive collection of "shopping bags" i have EVER SEEN was at the Mall at Millennia in Orlando (upscale mall) by a Scandinavian family (2 or 3 families). More so than the people i watched buying suitcases at the flea market to take their stuff home (i'm not sure where they put them in the rental min-van - it was already full! LOL!!). I love watching to see what visitors buy in the states. It's fun!

 

Anyway, i'd say yup, plenty of money left for holiday there. :D

 

But like others have said, the tax rates listed - would break my family. I'm not thinking that our wages would increase enough to support it.

[Erica in PA]

To me, it's as simple as this... I don't want to give my $$ to the government and have them provide these sorts of things for me and my family. I don't think that is an appropriate role of government. In several posts above, people have laid out all the things their government "provides" for them-- that is not the kind of country I want to live in. I want us to keep our own money, and provide for our own families. It makes me sick to think of being required by law to pay taxes as high as what was detailed above, and of having to rely on the government to "give me my money's worth". It's not what I think of as being a free country.

 

Erica

[keptwoman]

Some honest questions of those in universal health care. Is the price of health care rising or remaining steady?

Remaining steady

Are there any government price controls on health care?

Sort of. It's certainly not expensive. Even when going private we get most of it reimbursed through the govt system.

Are there limits to malpractice lawsuits for doctors/hospitals etc?

yes

Is there significant medical research & development going on in your country?

yes

 

 

Also we do have waiting lists. I waited 5 months to have my kidney stones blown up. But I had no symptoms AT ALL. Had they started playing up I would have been in the hospital right away to get them done. Urgent needs get urgent care, less urgent needs get less urgent care. But with any of this you have the choice to go private for immediate care.

 

I don't believe choice is removed at all. I believe that we have more choice than many of you have. Your insurance cos tell you which doctors you can and can't see. No one tells me that. Even within the public system I can ask for the doctor I want to see.

 

eta: our public hospitals aren't beautiful. The food isn't restaurant quality, the rooms aren't luxurious. But they are clean and the care is good. Having been sick in hospital the last thing I was worried about was the decor.

Edited October 19, 2008 by keptwoman

[keptwoman]

At the time, I was also shocked by the fact that C-sections were strongly encouraged because they could be scheduled and fit into the system's structure better than natural labor.

I was in an online Due Date Club. I felt that the girls from the US whose care was under OBs were very much pressured to have their babies at a time convienient to the doctor. Whereas I was under govt funded midwife care (in NZ) and I got much much more personal care and no pressure what so ever to fit in with any schedule but my babys. Now I'm not saying that either extreme doesn't exist in both countries. But I'm saying your example also exists in the US.

[SW in IL]

It is true that the US Military has what is basically socialized medical care. But I strongly disagree that it is substandard care.

 

My ex was in the military for over 10 years and we never had any problems getting care. My children and I were easily able to get in whenever we needed care and were referred outside of "the system" many, many times. We had the choice of choosing our own doctor or seeing one of the military docs.

 

The copays we had were much lower than what we've had to pay since then. For my oldest daughter's birth, we had over $600 in copays; for my other two children (born when my ex was in the military), it was $25. If we needed something as simple as a bottle of Tylenol, we just filled out a form and got it for free.

 

There are many things I don't miss about the military, but the healthcare is one of the few that I do miss. And I'm forced to wonder.... If they can provide healthcare like that for "The Few, The Proud..." (my ex was Navy, but you get the idea), why can't the rest of us get decent healthcare at a price we can afford.

 

Sue