dovrar Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I just recently purchase a copy of Jacobs elementary algebra for DD13 because I had read that because it is so incremental it eliminates the need for a pre algebra program. My oldest DD has not until just this past year ever talked of learning calculus, but after reading on coolmath.com she thinks it looks like fun. So, is there a calculus book that moves incrementally enough that I wouldn't need to purchase a pre calc book? Thanks for your suggestions! :bigear: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I expect a few other posters will hop on this not long after I post (not because we'll be disagreeing, though). They will probably put everything in a less clunky manner, too. Pre-algebra is not necessarily a "stand alone" course. It encompasses everything learned up to the actual algebra course (decimals, percents, ratios, learning how to decipher word problems, Order of Operations). Pre-Algebra is mostly a "pause" before Algebra -- reinforcing those fundamental skills, and sometimes including basic algebraic concepts. This is why students who have never had Pre-Algebra as an official course can move straight into Algebra 1 without a Pre-Algebra course. Pre-Calculus is actually made up of two (usually semester-long) courses: College Algebra and Trigonometry. This is not a "pause" course before Calculus. It contains necessary material used in Calculus and other upper level math. I'm not saying people have never skipped Pre-Calculus and gone on, but they have usually learned the Pre-Calculus topics along the way (it really depends upon the texts you've used and what they've covered in which depth). As far as a text that includes all of the prerequisite material goes...I'm not qualified to speak on that topic ;) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in SA Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 :iagree: That's pretty much it. For calculus, algebra and trigonometry should be getting close to "automatic," and the student should be ready to understand formal proofs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Before a formal class in calculus, you really need to go through algebra, geometry, advanced algebra, and trigonometry. This can be subdivided however you like. Jacobs is a great start for algebra and he has a geometry textbook as well. Many people follow Jacobs algebra/geometry with Foerster's algebra 2/trig, precalculus, and calculus, which are all solid textbooks. She should totally continue to read about calculus for fun, though, if she is interested, but she won't have the algebraic background to do more than some reading on the concepts for some time. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) Got it! So, DD has done geometry and used Lials for pre-algebra through Algebra 2. We used Lials BCM for pre-algebra (I don't think that at the time Jann in TX had the pre-algebra 2 class...correct me if I am wrong), Introductory Algebra and Intermediate Algebra., what would you suggest as the next step towards calc? What calc text do you like? Also, I have since then purchased Jacobs Elementary Algebra and Foerster's Algebra I for two of my other kids. I was thinking about getting rid of the Lials basic college math and introductory algebra, should I do that or will there not be overlap between the Lials and the other books. Thanks so much for the help! Edited July 30, 2016 by dovrar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Got it! So, DD has done geometry and used Lials for pre-algebra through Algebra 2. We used Lials BCM for pre-algebra (I don't think that at the time Jann in TX had the pre-algebra 2 class...correct me if I am wrong), Introductory Algebra and Intermediate Algebra., what would you suggest as the next step towards calc? What calc text do you like? Also, I have since then purchased Jacobs Elementary Algebra and Foerster's Algebra I for two of my other kids. I was thinking about getting rid of the Lials basic college math and introductory algebra, should I do that or will there not be overlap between the Lials and the other books. Thanks so much for the help! Oh my, I misread your post as your dd who had just gotten elementary algebra wanted to learn calculus. Ok, so with your dd having done algebra 2, she could move to a precalculus text. Any standard precalculus text will prepare her for any standard calculus text. Lial has many books if she wants to continue with Lial's. Foerster also has a book if you like the style of Foerster. Personally I would prefer Foerster for a single student but Lial will not put her at any kind of disadvantage. I use one of the Lial texts to teach my college precalculus class. Foerster has a solid calculus text as well so if you went with Foerster you could move directly to his calculus. BCM will not have a lot of overlap but introductory algebra is another algebra 1 text similar in scope and sequence to Jacobs and Foerster. If you have plenty of space frankly I'd stick it on a shelf until all your kids are done with math, because sometimes an explanation in another book just clicks when the first one did not, however, if space is at a premium it is easily dispensable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 I also have Math Mammoth 1-6, would this overlap @ all with BCM? Right now we're living with in laws and I'm trying to keep books to a minimum. Oh, and I own AOPS pre-algebra as well, but I think I may hold on to that one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 Foerster has a solid calculus text as well so if you went with Foerster you could move directly to his calculus. Move directly to Foerster's calculus after Foerster pre-calc? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Just wanted to throw this out there, if your younger DD had a sudden interest in Calculus since older might be doing Calculus, you might look at this... https://www.amazon.com/Calculus-Without-Tears-Learning-Students/dp/0976413809 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Foerster has a solid calculus text as well so if you went with Foerster you could move directly to his calculus. Move directly to Foerster's calculus after Foerster pre-calc? Yes. Also if you're all done with MM, I'd probably get rid of that and keep only BCM as a reference as it is more compact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 I've still got 3 more to use the MM with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 Just wanted to throw this out there, if your younger DD had a sudden interest in Calculus since older might be doing Calculus, you might look at this... https://www.amazon.com/Calculus-Without-Tears-Learning-Students/dp/0976413809 Thanks. I actually do have a younger child interested in learning calc. because the older one will be. He doesn't know what it is, but he doesn't want to be left behind. ; ) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I've still got 3 more to use the MM with. Then I wouldn't dispose of it -- but I'd probably still keep BCM, because when you need to reference an arithmetic concept it is really nice to be able to just look it up in one book and have a start-to-finish explanation designed for an older student who has learned it but forgotten it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 We have used the Larson Precaclulus text with the Mosely DVDs. I also have the AoPS precalculus book, and the Foerster precalculus book (and Life of Fred Advanced Algebra/Trigonometry). My oldest son has been using the Larson text and doing well. my oldest daughter is using the AoPS book and doing very well. They also have both used Foerster for Algebra and really enjoyed it. I plan on having the same author's calculus texts (Larson, Foerster, AoPS and Life of Fred). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) I would never suggest to my DD, for a minute, that she begin a Calculus course, without having first successfully completed Pre Calc. This is the URL for the TTUISD Pre Calc course, which explains what it involves: https://enroll.ttuisd.ttu.edu/catalog/CourseListing.asp?master_id=2500&master_version=1&course_area=HIGH&course_number=PRECA1A&course_subtitle=2 This is the URL for the Amazon SERPs for that textbook, Used, which begins at $14.99 plus shipping as I write this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/061839480X/ref=sr_1_1_olp?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1469918988&sr=1-1&keywords=061839480X GL with whatever you decide to do! Edited July 30, 2016 by Lanny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 I would never suggest to my DD, for a minute, that she begin a Calculus course, without having first successfully completed Pre Calc. This is the URL for the TTUISD Pre Calc course, which explains what it involves: https://enroll.ttuisd.ttu.edu/catalog/CourseListing.asp?master_id=2500&master_version=1&course_area=HIGH&course_number=PRECA1A&course_subtitle=2 This is the URL for the Amazon SERPs for that textbook, Used, which begins at $14.99 plus shipping as I write this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/061839480X/ref=sr_1_1_olp?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1469918988&sr=1-1&keywords=061839480X GL with whatever you decide to do! I am happy for DD to take Pre-calc if that's what needs to be done next. I just wasn't sure if there was one text that would cover both. Thanks for the links. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I am happy for DD to take Pre-calc if that's what needs to be done next. I just wasn't sure if there was one text that would cover both. Thanks for the links. You're welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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