Counselor letter for highly capable mathy student...

[snowbeltmom]

If they won't believe me that I can describe my child's personality, why would they believe anything I say about academics like coursework and grades? To me, the counselor letter seems the most obviously believable thing, because my own child's character traits are the one area where nobody else has even comparable expertise.

If I feel they cannot accept that, why would I even bother writing course descriptions and a school profile?

:confused1: 

They believe what you say about coursework and grades because you have outside evidence to back-up the coursework and grades.  Do you think that any admissions officer would take a homeschooling parent's word about her child's coursework and grades without some type of  outside verification to substantiate those claims?  There is a reason why even schools that are test optional for traditionally schooled kids require test scores from homeschoolers.

 

Imo, the "soft, personality traits" discussed in the counselor letter are much more subjective than the academics presented elsewhere in the application.  While I provided links to my son's published research, there really wasn't any material I could provide to back up my claims regarding his personality.  Anyone can say that her child has Characteristic X, and that parent would be telling the truth because that it what she believes to be true.  Imo, if you have a third party that also recognizes that your child has Characteristic X, it helps to support your opinion. 

 

Obviously, every family is different, but I don't think that I am the only person who has comparable expertise when discussing my kids' personality traits.  My kids spend a substantial amount of time working with others.  When those individuals also comment on those same personality traits that I observe, I think it brings in another dimension to my comments.

 

I didn't see the instructor comment that Quark posted, but based on the comments, it appears to be a powerful statement.  Imo, that statement coming from an objective third-party would carry more weight than if a mom had written the exact same thing.

 

The advice from experts is "show, don't tell" in our writing. I think that a quote from a third-party can fall under the "show" category.  As with everything, YMMV. 

[JoanHomeEd]

:confused1:  Well, if you are specific enough when identifying the quoted individual, there is a way to easily validate the comment.  Now I don't think that an adcom would go to the trouble of verifying the quote, but I do think that a third party testimony is more credible than a mother making the exact same statement.  Obviously, my thinking on this seems to be in the minority, and that is fine. :)

No, you are not in the minority. Although I didn't quote the instructor directly, I did say something like "the instructor informed me that...." 

Of course, the admission people can don't believe me, but it's like if someone didn't say much but put a link there from some experts, even if you don't click on that link, you would think twice about doubting that person's words.

Anyway, when I did that I wasn't thinking about anyone who might be skeptical of what I said, but it was just my style of referencing some third party in the context of what I was talking about. To me, it's just my style. :)  

[snowbeltmom]

No, you are not in the minority. Although I didn't quote the instructor directly, I did say something like "the instructor informed me that...." 

Of course, the admission people can don't believe me, but it's like if someone didn't say much but put a link there from some experts, even if you don't click on that link, you would think twice about doubting that person's words.

Anyway, when I did that I wasn't thinking about anyone who might be skeptical of what I said, but it was just my style of referencing some third party in the context of what I was talking about. To me, it's just my style. :)

We are on the same page here.  I also wasn't thinking that anyone would necessarily be doubtful of what I said in a sinister way.  But I do think it is natural for someone to read a comment from a mom, and think "of course she would think that about her kid."  The quotes were used to say, "the mom is not the only person who feels this way about the applicant."

[quark]

I keep forgetting about links and portfolios! Both excellent reminders that we have the internet as a tool. I am obviously still very old fashioned and I think inadvertently expect adcoms to be too.

[8filltheheart]

:confused1: Show don't tell can apply to character traits as well. It is basically what my counselor letter is. I focus far more on what she has achieved bc of her character than anything else. (Ironically, I didn't include the Russian example at all.)

 

Fwiw, I don't think test scores validating grades applies just to homeschoolers. Maybe at test optional schools, but I think universities are skeptical of schools they aren't familiar with as well.

 

Many universities are very test score conscious for all students.

[regentrude]

The quotes were used to say, "the mom is not the only person who feels this way about the applicant."

 

I figured that was accomplished by the other LORs. ;) There, the recommender gets to speak directly.

Edited July 15, 2016 by regentrude

[quark]

Thank you all so very much. I really couldn't have done this without each and every one of you. Now ... :D ...I am going to treat myself to some Netflix and cute canine cuddles.

Edited August 5, 2016 by quark

[JoanHomeEd]

nm

Edited July 17, 2016 by Susan Wise Bauer
That was uncalled for.

[GoodGrief]

Reading all of this with interest. My kids homeschooled via a charter, so I did not write a counselor letter. I can guarantee that their respective contact teachers' "counselor letter(s)" were pathetic, lol. The people hardly knew them; I SO wished I could have written something up! I agree with those who say that the letter doesn't carry much weight though. It will be somewhat more important for your student though, because of his age; some explanation will be necessary, of course.

 

Glad you got it done. My two cents: DEFINITELY keep it to one page if your student is applying to selective schools. They are reading thousands of applications and you risk having important information missed if you get wordy. Keep in mind that the essays the students themselves write tend to be 600-ish words, so I say don't go much past that.

 

His university grades and test scores will be especially significant, as will letters of rec from outside sources (again, because of his age, a great letter will be important.) His essays will be huge.

 

I will enjoy following his story this coming year!

 

 

[quark]

I will enjoy following his story this coming year!

I appreciated all of your reply but this last line...thank you Gr8lander! That is very sweet!

Edited July 17, 2016 by quark

[quark]

I'm (about 90%) DONE!! Man, it feels so good.

 

Thank you all again. I couldn't have done this without all the motivation and encouragement received here. :001_wub:

 

I've finished the course descriptions, school profile, transcript (with IP and PL courses), extracurricular list/ resume and I think most of the counselor letter.

 

I've printed all pages and slotted them into a portfolio style clear holder folder. This is mainly to remind me to include some portfolio materials (print and online). And I must admit the folder makes me so puffy heart happy. I'll replace the drafts with the real ones when we are ready to submit so that we can have a full set at home for keeps.

 

The 10% is for polishing the letter and a few small things here and there.

 

Question 1 -- do you include planned senior courses in the course descriptions or no? For now, I've included them. He will be fully DE in spring.

Question 2 -- if answer to question 1 is yes, what happens if DS changes his mind about DE courses in the spring semester?

Question 3 -- is the extracurricular resume thingy a good idea to include with the application or no? DS will still be completing the extrac portion of the app. Should I only keep it as ref for him to write his own resume/ applications for scholarships etc?

Edited July 20, 2016 by quark

[regentrude]

Question 1 -- do you include planned senior courses in the course descriptions or no? For now, I've included them. He will be fully DE in spring.

Question 2 -- if answer to question 1 is yes, what happens if DS changes his mind about DE courses in the spring semester?

Question 3 -- is the extracurricular resume thingy a good idea to include with the application or no? DS will still be completing the extrac portion of the app. Should I only keep it as ref for him to write his own resume/ applications for scholarships etc?

 

Yes, I did include planned senior year courses in the course descriptions, since they were also included on the transcript as planned/in progress.

If the student changes his mind, no problem - you will submit a final transcript and can reflect the actual courses there.

 

I do not know what the extracurricular resume is. My DD explained her extracurriculars in the respective sections of the various applications. I would not submit an additional document. YMMV.

[8filltheheart]

Question 1 -- do you include planned senior courses in the course descriptions or no? For now, I've included them. He will be fully DE in spring.

Question 2 -- if answer to question 1 is yes, what happens if DS changes his mind about DE courses in the spring semester?

Question 3 -- is the extracurricular resume thingy a good idea to include with the application or no? DS will still be completing the extrac portion of the app. Should I only keep it as ref for him to write his own resume/ applications for scholarships etc?

1- yes

2- include it in the mid-yr report

3- at least 1 of the schools Dd is applying to highly encourages a resume (stated on their admissions website). She has not started the application yet, but I am assuming there is a spot in the student section for an upload, not the counselor section. However, it may be in the counselor section. No biggie. It will go wherever it is designated. If we can't tell, I will have her contact admissions and ask.

[quark]

Thank you so very much!