Using WWE Instructor's Guide with other Curriculum

[carriede]

For DS's 1st grade year, I used the WWE guide in conjunction with SOTW vol 1 for narrations. It was simple to read a section of history, then ask for a 2-3 sentence narration on something he remembered.

 

Now, for Year 2 in the WWE guide, instead of asking something you remembered, it says to ask for the most important point of the passage. Now, I do not expect DS7 (or anyone really) to read a whole section of SOTW and then be able to pick out THE most important thing in the passage - a whole section covers a multitude of topics!

 

So, for those who use WWE with other sources, how should I approach this? Just pick a particular paragraph, read it by itself, have child narrate, then continue with the rest of the section? Would it be better to use a difference source completely?

 

I'm also considering ditching the WWE/SOTW combo all together. DD4 is begging to do her own narrations, and I don't know how to have both children narrate from the same passage - so I'd likely some formal narration of SOTW for both. But I know that writing across the curriculum is ideal, so I was avoiding using the WWE workbooks if possible... plus its less for me to read aloud if I combine it!

 

Ideas, thoughts, comments? Thank you!

Edited June 25, 2016 by carriede

[carriede]

Hello, hello? Is this mic on?

[arliemaria]

I have the WWE Instructor's Text and the workbook also, but so far I've only had my oldest do copywork from either poems he is memorizing or a line we liked from one of his read alouds.  I have a primary composition notebook and I have so far written on one line and he copies beneath it.  I want to begin having him copy from the chalkboard next year.  We use Ambleside Online and they recommend narrations for every required reading.  So we've done LOTS of narrations.  He still does not always like it, but I see lots of fruit.  He will repeat stuff in retellings from videos (like a nature documentary) nearly verbatim to random people.  We were at a book signing this past weekend and he told the author all about orchid bees for nearly 15 minutes based on a documentary we had recently watched.  It was a beautiful narration.

 

So you can narrate from anything--a read aloud, a video, a nature walk, etc.  You can even record their narrations (remember to help them do this in complete sentences) and even use them as copywork.  This interview with Sonya Shafer was great on helping me teach narration:  http://edsnapshots.com/ymb10/  Our first narrations we needed to only read a paragraph or a few small paragraphs and ask for him to retell in as much detail as possible, but he's gotten better at doing longer and longer sections.  It takes years to develop narration... 

Edited June 27, 2016 by arliemaria

[Miss Tick]

If I understand what you are doing, I would select a paragraph (or two or three, whatever is appropriate for your ds at this point) and re-read those and have him pick the most important thing. Still have him do his regular narrations, but perhaps incorporate the important thing. I think the point of year 2 is to start gradually moving the narrations to focusing on the important things and learning which details are interesting but can be left out. This is the skill you use in a lecture to take efficient notes.

 

I would just give your daughter a turn. Maybe she repeats his narration, maybe she tells her own story, it's all good. I had twins go through SOTW and WWE. For SOTW we alternated narrations, for WWE they both did it while the other was practicing piano, or else we just switched who went first.

[MotherOfBoys]

Each chapter usually has two sections and we cover a chapter a day on history days. We listen to the Sotw audio section one. The younger child tells me the most important point and then the older child gives me two important details supporting that point. I write the important point and the two supporting points as a paragraph for them to copy. We then listen to the second section and repeat. Then they go to the table to do the copywork and talk about the places on the map.

 

I know my oldest can pick out the most important because he's done 2 levels of WWE already. My youngest has done WWE1 wkbk well and has trouble picking out the main point sometimes on Sotw. It's usually just because he can't remember the name of the people group though. I would stop half way through Sotw section one to ask the main point if the child needs smaller chunks.

[Amy M]

I have gone through this dilemma several times since beginning WWE three years ago with my oldest. Here is a thread I started to get some advice two years (?) ago, which might help, plus it has links to other questions I asked which are very similar to this topic. I tried to use SOTW as my WWE (following the IG, as you mention, and the narration questions in the SOTW AG), but then my son started really disliking history. So perhaps the thread I posted can shed some light on how you should do things.

 

I know I have often felt frustrated when I tried to write across the curriculum per WTM instructions, but I had a lot of questions and wasn't exactly sure what it should look like, how much to do or expect. Then when I asked questions, it seemed that very few people actually wrote across the curriculum per WTM, but just used the workbooks for WWE. If you search, you may find several other threads about people saying that when they look at the workbooks, they just don't feel adequate to do that, though they wanted to simply use the IG. I know that's how I feel/felt about WWE2.

 

I think it might work better to do WWE with literature, rather than SOTW, unless you just chose a page or two from SOTW and limited the amount of information. Sometimes SOTW includes a story from a certain civilization, and those would probably work well (if they weren't too long); but sometimes, as you said, it doesn't work very well. Do you have the SOTW AG? I do use those questions and narration helps. If it helps you, I wrote down what we read in literature (connected to our current readings in SOTW2), and then made copywork pages for WWE2, and chose dictations. The copywork and dictations matched the requirements in the WWE IG and came from the literature that I selected to go with SOTW2. Your narrations can come from the lit or SOTW2. Much of it is here, but I see that I never finished putting all of the documents on my blog page. Life got pretty busy, and no one ever used it, so... :) But maybe you will! I would love to help someone else with all of that work. I'll try to finish it up pretty soon. At least to get the lesson plans on there to show the reading schedule with the WWE copywork. :) 

 

I still fluctuate. Ideally, I'd love to be self-confident enough to basically follow the IG across the curriculum, and not pressure my kids too much, if their dictation isn't at the level of their narration, or if we don't do everything the way the workbooks do. I have tried using the workbooks. I've tried using just the IG. I've tried throwing my hands up in surrender and going to a completely different writing curriculum. But I have personally also learned a lot about how to do these three classical "tools" of writing, by using WWE, and for that I am very thankful!

 

I can tell you, though, having the first 3 levels in workbook, that you don't need the level 1 workbook! In first grade, I count my child's handwriting paper as copywork. I don't discuss grammar at all with it. I try to get him to capitalize and put end punctuation and to copy the spelling correctly, and that's usually very adequate. We cover "grammar" with FLL1/2 that year, and even that is pared down.

 

For level 2, this year I'm using the workbook with my 7yo. It seemed like the most crucial one to me. I still don't do copywork from it, though. We do enough copying and writing in other subjects. I have him look at it, and we discuss it the day we do narration #1. So we do it 3 days per week. It keeps me on track; otherwise I find myself spending waaaay too much time trying to do it just right per my own schedule (like on my blog!), and I still don't think I'm doing it right! Or I find myself not doing any dictation. I still wish I could just get confident enough to do it myself. I do dictation in phonics and spelling, but it's not as complex as WWE2. However, a huge benefit is that in both programs, he knows how to spell all of the words. With both of my sons, WWE dictation has had words that simply derailed their dictations. They took so much time asking me how to spell words that they'd forget what they were supposed to be holding in their heads.

 

For level 3, I don't think the workbook is a must. It's helpful to show you SWB's expectations. But I also just used literature. We had two unexpected trips home (overseas) during my oldest's third grade year. So for 2-3 of the books he read for reading (like The Mouse and the Motorcyle, or an ABeka novel), I had him orally summarize the chapter, and then go write 1-2 sentences every day after reading a chapter. We only did that for two books, and then after that just two days per week for other books, but I saw a vast improvement. Sometimes I wonder if he needed time and maturity more than practice, to be honest! Anyway, I gathered that the big goal in level 3 is to get them to eventually write down their own summaries, without needing to copy what you wrote down for them, without needing to write from their summary dictated to them--just to go from their own head to writing it on paper.

 

So in summary, :), try to get the big picture goals and head towards those, even if it takes more (or fewer) weeks; even if it doesn't get a good mix of summarizing passages with details vs. passages with narrative; even if the child is not equally able in either dictation and narration; use it in a way that you feel comfortable with and that helps your family, and go for the big goals. Careful attentive copywork, holding thoughts in their heads with dictation, and careful listening and the logic of picking out the major points with narration.

 

As far as combining kids, I now have two. I often start with my younger and have him narrate first. Then I ask the older to add to it. I figure the younger needs more practice anyway, and the older, if that day, if he didn't get to add much, he will get plenty of opportunity in other subjects that are just him.

[LMD]

Asking for the most important part isn't a test, the correct answer is whatever part the child thought was most important (I mean, within reason!) I wouldn't just read one paragraph for it personally. Also, doing narrations from both children from a longer passage shouldn't be a problem, especially if you're asking a different question (albeit only slightly different).

 

I'll come back in a little while to elaborate!

[carriede]

Wow, I turn my head for one day and y'all leave some massive replies! Thank you! Getting some coffee to help process... ;)

Edited June 29, 2016 by carriede

[carriede]

I have the WWE Instructor's Text and the workbook also, but so far I've only had my oldest do copywork from either poems he is memorizing or a line we liked from one of his read alouds. I have a primary composition notebook and I have so far written on one line and he copies beneath it. I want to begin having him copy from the chalkboard next year. We use Ambleside Online and they recommend narrations for every required reading. So we've done LOTS of narrations. He still does not always like it, but I see lots of fruit. He will repeat stuff in retellings from videos (like a nature documentary) nearly verbatim to random people. We were at a book signing this past weekend and he told the author all about orchid bees for nearly 15 minutes based on a documentary we had recently watched. It was a beautiful narration.

 

So you can narrate from anything--a read aloud, a video, a nature walk, etc. You can even record their narrations (remember to help them do this in complete sentences) and even use them as copywork. This interview with Sonya Shafer was great on helping me teach narration: http://edsnapshots.com/ymb10/ Our first narrations we needed to only read a paragraph or a few small paragraphs and ask for him to retell in as much detail as possible, but he's gotten better at doing longer and longer sections. It takes years to develop narration...

I'll try to listen to that podcast on narration, thanks!

[carriede]

If I understand what you are doing, I would select a paragraph (or two or three, whatever is appropriate for your ds at this point) and re-read those and have him pick the most important thing. Still have him do his regular narrations, but perhaps incorporate the important thing. I think the point of year 2 is to start gradually moving the narrations to focusing on the important things and learning which details are interesting but can be left out. This is the skill you use in a lecture to take efficient notes.

 

I would just give your daughter a turn. Maybe she repeats his narration, maybe she tells her own story, it's all good. I had twins go through SOTW and WWE. For SOTW we alternated narrations, for WWE they both did it while the other was practicing piano, or else we just switched who went first.

I think this would work well. Maybe read the whole section, have DD narrate, then reread a smaller selection for DS to narrate/do the most important part.

[carriede]

I have gone through this dilemma several times since beginning WWE three years ago with my oldest. ...

I also use FLL, so I omit the more grammatical copywork suggestions in WWE, which I think makes it MUCH easier to use WWE across the curriculum. My current plan is to do FLL (ONLY the grammar lessons) 2 days a week with copywork from the lesson, then WWE 2 different days a week using SOTW for narrations, copywork/dictation.

 

I too have considered using lit instead. I'm actually giving MP's lit guides a try this year (though I only got the 2nd grade answer key, which has the answers for all the workbooks so I only spent $13 on it). I was planning to do all that orally, so it'd be a lot like using the questions in the SOTW AG (which I do have) to aid in narrations. So that would be a good possible alternative.

 

One reason I DON'T care for the WWE workbooks is because it takes some great stories and only does excerpts of them. So, I looked at ELTL instead, but that had too much integration with subjects we do differently (poetry, grammar) that it would take too much tweeking.... So I'm back to tweeking WWE. ;)

 

You made a very good point about dictation and spelling. I'll have to make sure to simplify some of the sentences.