Late reader

[Guest Loretta Bouillon]

Hi there,

I am new to this site so this question has probably been asked before. Does anyone have any wisdom to share regarding a child who is nine and not reading yet? He is bright, muscial and good in math. He REALLY wants to read but since grade 1 (he is in grade 4 this year but I am teaching him phonics at about grade 1-2 level) he has not really progressed with his reading. He is a busy, creative child with a very short attention span so I am hoping that is the reason we are getting off to a slower start than my other two children (both were reading well in grade k-1). I have tried a few different phonics approaches. This year we are using Right Brained Phonics program by Diane Craft and doing many hands on activities to learn to read. I have heard busy boys can begin reading late but I wouldn't mind hearing from someone else who has been down this road. I don't really want to have him tested. He may be a mildly dyslexic (reverses letters and numbers and mistakes "to" for "it"...that sort of thing but it is hard to tell because my other two children reversed their letters too.

Thanks for listening!

[Guest Loretta Bouillon]

Hi there,

I am new to this site so this question has probably been asked before. Does anyone have any wisdom to share regarding a child who is nine and not reading yet? He is bright, muscial and good in math. He REALLY wants to read but since grade 1 (he is in grade 4 this year but I am teaching him phonics at about grade 1-2 level) he has not really progressed with his reading. He is a busy, creative child with a very short attention span so I am hoping that is the reason we are getting off to a slower start than my other two children (both were reading well in grade k-1). I have tried a few different phonics approaches. This year we are using Right Brained Phonics program by Diane Craft and doing many hands on activities to learn to read. I have heard busy boys can begin reading late but I wouldn't mind hearing from someone else who has been down this road. I don't really want to have him tested. He may be a mildly dyslexic (reverses letters and numbers and mistakes "to" for "it"...that sort of thing but it is hard to tell because my other two children reversed their letters too.

Thanks for listening!

[AngieW in Texas]

At this point, I would get an evaluation done.

 

If he is dyslexic or has some other type of LD, then he will need a lot of intervention. What a typical learner would get after 20 exposures can take a dyslexic 200 or more exposures.

 

While reversals are common in young kids, they are usually gone by 8yo unless there are issues.

 

I would do a developmental vision exam and a learning disabilities evaluation. You may also want to check out medication. I have heard from a lot of moms that reading did not improve until after medication for ADD because their child did not have a long enough attention span to learn until then.

 

My oldest is ADD-inattentive. We actually tried medication, but all the medications we tried made her sick and did nothing to help.

 

You know that what you've tried so far hasn't really worked. You need to do something different. Randomly trying different programs is likely to eat up a lot of time until you find something that works. If you get an evaluation done to find out what his issues are, you are much more likely to be able to find a program that works specifically on what he needs.

 

The general rule of thumb on the LD board at this stage of the game (with a 4th grader) would be that you can try one more program for up to 6 weeks, but if you don't see a dramatic improvement by the end of 6 weeks, you need to go for an evaluation so you can find what the issues are and get them corrected/remediated.

 

I don't know what program to recommend to you, because you don't have enough information in your post about what his difficulties are.

 

My youngest is dyslexic. It was a huge relief to her at 6yo to find out that she had visual efficiency problems that were causing her to have such a tough time reading. It was also a huge relief to her when she found out at 7yo that she was also dyslexic. My dd had come up with her own labels for herself and they weren't nice.

 

Once we had her first evaluation at 7yo, I was able to find a program that would work for her and she started to progress in reading. She is in 5th grade now and is reading at grade level. Reading is still a struggle for her, but she can do it.

[PollyOR]

Hmmm...well, I have a nephew that learned to read at 10 years old. So, I know it can happen.

 

My 3rd dd learned to read at eight. It was nerve racking with grandparents breathing down my neck and second guessing my own decisions. Every time I was on the verge of setting up testing, dd would make a leap forward just enough to make me decide to hold off a little bit longer.

 

I think AngieW has some excellent advice. For me, if my dd had reached 9 and was still not reading I would have had her tested. It can affect a child's self-esteem like Angie pointed out. Mostly, it would equip the two of you with the tools you need to help him become a reader.

[Stacy in NJ]

Hi Loretta,

 

My oldest son is 11 and is dyslexic. He really didn't learn to read until somewhere between 3rd and 4th grade. As a 6th grader this year, he's an enthusiastic fiction reader, reading on grade level. Although, he still has some struggles with non-fiction science texts, primarily because the vocababulary is more difficult. Don't even ask me about his spelling.

 

I think you'll get a wide range of advice here. Some will tell you your ds definiately would benefit from professional evaluation and testing. Others will tell you to continue what you're doing and eventually something will "click". I'm going to tell you a little of both. Testing may help you pinpoint the specific subskills that make reading difficult for your ds. This is helpful in that you can then specifically work on those skill to remediate. Understanding the mechanics of reading beyond just phonics and sight reading will help you help your child. Here's the down side: testing can also hold out a false promise. Just because you test doesn't mean your child's difficulty will go away, and even after you've identified his weak area, the remediation you apply may or may not be effective. There is no consensous regarding how children learn to read or what really causes some to struggle. There is some real information that is scientifically valid that gives us sign posts to the probable answers. I recommend reading the book Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz. It's available in paperback. While I don't think Shaywitz is the definative authority, she does offer some very pragmatic and usefull advice.

 

I know that there are two very basic reasons for trouble with reading (dyslexia). 1) Phonemic weakness - the struggle to hear and pull apart and put back together the distinct sounds in words. 2) Lack of visual memory - the inability to visual recognize letters and attach the appropriate sound to them and recall them quickly. This is sometimes called RAN speed.

 

The good news is that phonemic awareness can be trained. In fact it is the easier component of dyslexia to address. Shaywitz's book provides remediation programs for this. The trickier problem is number 2. Reading scientist have yet to come up with a way to remediate RANS (rapid automatic naming speed), this lack of visual memory.

 

My experience tells me that whether you choose to test or not won't determine the outcome for your child. What will determine his outcome is how much *effective* time on task he, and by extention you, spend on reading. The word effective is the obviously key. Testing can help you determine what maybe effective, then again it may not. Your own observation and common sense may tell you more about what will and will not be effective. Teaching a dylexic to read *will* take significantly more time than teaching an "average" child.

 

So, as a btdt parent of a dyslexic child, here's my advice.

 

1. Pick a strong phonics program and stick with it. Something Orton Gillingham based or Lindamood-Bell.

2. Make sure he as fully developed his phonemic awareness skills.

3. Train fluency - multiple times a day, he needs to engage in ROR (repeated oral readings). Read and reread and then read again the same text. Until he can read it quickly and accurately. After he's mastered a text, set it aside for a week or two then return to it to read, reread and read again.

4. Use flash cards to drill sight words and vocabulary from text's he's been using during ROR.

5. Do all of the above alot. Do it for a committed amount of time daily. I suggest 20 minutes 5 times daily.

6. Read aloud to your ds alot, or have him listen to audio books a great deal.

7. This will be a long hard slog. Take it seriously. Don't expect that someday he'll magically learn to read because something just clicked.

8. There are no magic pills (i.e. "services") that will make it go away. It is what it is.

9. If you're unable to do the work necessary, hire a tutor or seek assistance from organizations that offer free tutoring (the Shriners, the International Dyslexia Association).

 

 

HTH, Stacy

[LizzyBee]

You've gotten good advice. I just wanted to add my favorite dyslexia website. There is lots of free stuff on this site that can help you understand whether your son is probably dyslexic or not.

 

http://www.dys-add.com/

 

Be sure to click on the links for what is dyslexia? and symptoms of dyslexia.

[ElizabethB]

I would not waste time with sentences or stories until he's mastered the basics.

 

Work for 10 - 20 minutes at a time, twice a day, learning phonics skills, and learn them to spelling mastery at the same time. Learning to spell at the same time really seems to stick the information in their little brains. If he can't write neatly or fast, let him use magnetic letters on a cookie sheet.

 

You can get a lot done when you focus on the basics and you only work when they're paying attention.

 

Also, I wouldn't teach any sight words, it can be confusing. There are only 5 words that actually need to be learned by sight, the others can be learned phonetically by pattern, for example, s as z in has, is and as or words that end in v, like have and live. (Live can be long or short.)

 

Don Potter has some great flashcards to help. I like working through Webster's Speller on a whiteboard, writing the words from left to right each time helps hold my daughter's attention more than working from a book, and keeps up interest--something is moving and happening.

 

http://donpotter.net/ed.htm

 

You could also try my free online lessons ( http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonicslsnslinks.html ), they're specifically designed for older students.

Edited October 5, 2008 by ElizabethB

[In The Great White North]

Ds didn't start really reading (as in chapter books for fun) til half way through 4th grade (10). Before that he was painfully sounding stuff out. Reading was work not fun. He didn't make the transition til he found something "worth reading" (for him that was Magic Treehouse).

 

When you say he hasn't progressed since 1st grade, does that mean he can sound out words? Read road signs? Can he not read at all or just not at grade level?

 

Does he do any reading or just phonics? Does he really want to read, as in picks up books and tries to read them on his own, or is he just saying he wants to read (compliant child)? Do you read to him?

 

If he can't read at all, doesn't try to read road signs, menus, etc and tries to read books when you're not looking (and gets frustrated), I would go for testing.

 

If he can sound words out, but cannot read well enough to read a chapter book, and doesn't try when not assigned, I would give it time (and find something else for him to read.)

[Ummto4]

I don't have any experience with any late reader, so take my input with a grain of salt. If your dc turns out to be dyslexic, join Spell To Write and Read (SWR) group and ask the author (Wanda Sanseri) how SWR helps a dyslexic child. I've heard that SWR helps dyslexic to overcome the dyslexia. I don't know how, so you better ask Wanda. I'm using it for spelling with my son.

 

HTH

Diangff