AoPS Calculus vs. AP Calculus (AB or BC) with PA Homeschooler

[Joyful]

We're not there yet. But in the process of looking for online classes for DS for 9th grade, I saw that the online Calculus course offered by AoPS is not an AP course. But they do say that after completion of the course, the student would be ready to sit for the AP Calculus BC test.

 

DS has used AoPS Intro Algebra, and just finished online AoPS Intro Geometry. And he really enjoyed the online class. Would it be better for him to take Caluculs online with AoPS or AP Calc with PA Homeschooler? What would the differences be? He can sit for the AP Calc test even without taking an "AP" class, right? Would colleges look at the courses differently?

 

Thanks!

[8filltheheart]

We struggled with the same decision. I originally signed my ds for PAH's cal class. He detested it. From his perspective it was a lot of replicate plug and chug busy work type problems. He dropped that class and signed up for AoPS. He loved it. He did have to prep for the BC exam (the exam is changing for next yr.) He needed to learn how to write the form for free response answers and he needed calculator practice. Kathy in Richmond helped him with the prep, so I am not 100% sure exactly what the prep was I all, but those 2 things stick out in my memory. He prepped for just a few weeks before the exam.

[Joyful]

Thanks for sharing your experience! It's helpful to know that some additional prep will be needed in order to take the AP test.

I guess mathy kids like AoPS for a reason. :)

[Julie of KY]

We're not there yet. But in the process of looking for online classes for DS for 9th grade, I saw that the online Calculus course offered by AoPS is not an AP course. But they do say that after completion of the course, the student would be ready to sit for the AP Calculus BC test.

 

DS has used AoPS Intro Algebra, and just finished online AoPS Intro Geometry. And he really enjoyed the online class. Would it be better for him to take Caluculs online with AoPS or AP Calc with PA Homeschooler? What would the differences be? He can sit for the AP Calc test even without taking an "AP" class, right? Would colleges look at the courses differently?

 

Thanks!

 

Sure he can sit for the AP test without taking an official AP class. I'd list it as Calculus with AP test and let the test score speak for itself. I don't think most colleges would treat the two as any different.

 

My son did AoPS all the way through precalc and since has done much of the AoPS calculus book on his own. He also took PA homeschoolers AP Calculus BC so I can tell you some differences. Private message me if you want my opinions.

 

[Brad S]

I also don't think most colleges would treat AoPS Calculus with AP test differently than a standard AP Calculus BC course, but a few probably will and they should.  AoPS would provide a much, much better preparation for college math, IMO, at least for a math major.  I don't know about PA HS, so my comments are not about that class in particular, but rather about typical AP calc classes.  In many cases, AP classes as well as the test provides a modest floor on the course as well as preparing for the AP test, but AoPS is at a much deeper level than the minimum AP calc course.

 

By the way, I've heard a lot of positive things about the Barron's AP prep guide, but I'd guess that others would work too as a supplement to AoPS for AP test prep.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Brad S

[Kathy in Richmond]

I'd choose the class that better fits my child's learning style.

 

You can certainly take an AP exam without being in an official AP course or even without having CB approval of your self-study course. We did it many times here.

 

Either class will cover the topics required for the BC Calculus exam.

 

PA Homeschoolers will use a traditional textbook, assign readings & lots of practice problems on a regular basis, and will do focused test review. We've used PA Homeschoolers (not for Calc, though) and have been pleased. As a general rule, they'll over-prepare you for the test & make it possible to earn a top score, with lots of support. It's more school-like; they usually have x number of points for each component of the course, & will notify you & nudge/dock your student if he gets behind, etc.

 

AoPS uses their own text, will go much deeper conceptually and will require many proof-based problems. They'll assign fewer, but tougher, problems, and there won't be a lot of rote practice. They'll cover all of the AP topics, but you'll be on your own for AP specific test review. AoPS expects that their students are mature and will do their work without constant reminders. Grades are not emphasized at all, though you can request one through their school if needed.

 

I helped prepare 8Fill's son for the BC exam after he completed the AoPS course. I've also used these methods with my own and other kids who self-studied Calculus.

 

What we did (& it worked well) was:

 

(1) Multiple choice practice from Barron's to build up speed & to check for areas needing review.

 

(2) Used this book for targeted FRQ practice. It has very detailed solutions, cross-referenced by topic, from past exams showing exactly what the AP graders are looking for; it's an older book that's still relevant today. There are lots of FRQs & grading rubrics on the CB website, too, for additional practice.

 

(3) After completing the above review, I administered a full released exam (purchased from CB) under testing conditions. We did this about one week before the real exam just to catch whether or not we missed any topics & to give us a few days to fix those gaps.

 

(4) Practiced with a graphing calculator. You only need to be familiar with the 4 procedures listed on p.14 of this CB pdf. Those shouldn't take most kids more than an hour or so to master. 

 

On the AP exams, one section of the multiple choice and one section of the free response questions will allow calculator usage. Not all of the questions in those sections will require a calculator, but there WILL be some questions that cannot be solved any other way. They won't be easy examples that can be done by hand, but instead will be messy integrals, functions that cannot be quickly graphed by hand, etc. 

 

You can see examples of calculator based MC problems on pp 23 - 27 of the same pdf linked above (#15, 19, 23, 24) and typical calculator FRQs on pp 48-49 (#1, 2).

 

Be aware that the AP Calc exams are changing next year. The changes are classified as minor, but I'd keep my ears open anyway. There is supposed to be a greater emphasis on conceptual understanding. Calculus is still calculus, though, and the above review methods should still be helpful! (just checked quickly and the calculator procedures, for ex., have not changed at all.)

[Cosmos]

(4) Practiced with a graphing calculator. You only need to be familiar with the 4 procedures listed on p.14 of this CB pdf. Those shouldn't take most kids more than an hour or so to master.

 

Kathy's post is so great. I just wanted to comment on the calculator part. Perhaps my kid isn't "most kids", but it's taken him a fair amount of practice on the graphing calculator. He started using it about a month ago (so four weeks before the exam) and spent an hour or two learning the functions. It's true it's not too hard to learn. But getting speedy at it has taken longer. And the hardest thing for him has been learning to *recognize* problems that he should use the calculator on. His inclination is to pound away at a problem trying every possible integration technique rather than to turn to the calculator. The number of problems you really, truly need a graphing calculator for is pretty small from what I can tell, but when you come to one, you'd better know how to recognize it and not waste precious minutes.

 

Ds is taking the AB exam on Thursday after studying AOPS at home. We didn't get through quite enough for him to do the BC (we'll finish it up after the exam or next fall).

[Kathy in Richmond]

Kathy's post is so great. I just wanted to comment on the calculator part. Perhaps my kid isn't "most kids", but it's taken him a fair amount of practice on the graphing calculator. He started using it about a month ago (so four weeks before the exam) and spent an hour or two learning the functions. It's true it's not too hard to learn. But getting speedy at it has taken longer. And the hardest thing for him has been learning to *recognize* problems that he should use the calculator on. His inclination is to pound away at a problem trying every possible integration technique rather than to turn to the calculator. The number of problems you really, truly need a graphing calculator for is pretty small from what I can tell, but when you come to one, you'd better know how to recognize it and not waste precious minutes.

 

Ds is taking the AB exam on Thursday after studying AOPS at home. We didn't get through quite enough for him to do the BC (we'll finish it up after the exam or next fall).

 

Yes, good point!

 

There's time getting comfortable with the calculator in general (we'd been using them for a few years before AP calc), a bit of time to learn the 4 procedures, and then the practice exams to gain intuition on when to use those procedures. And the last IS the tricky part!

 

One thing you can do is look at the particular calculator problems in that pdf I linked. For the problems *requiring* a calculator, the MC answer choices will often look like (a) 2.184, (b) 3.638, © 2.765, etc...in other words, if you see "ugly" numbers, maybe it would be a good idea to try your calculator.

 

Good luck to your son & all other WTM kids taking the AP exam tomorrow!

 

 

[Luckymama]

Kathy's post is so great. I just wanted to comment on the calculator part. Perhaps my kid isn't "most kids", but it's taken him a fair amount of practice on the graphing calculator. He started using it about a month ago (so four weeks before the exam) and spent an hour or two learning the functions. It's true it's not too hard to learn. But getting speedy at it has taken longer. And the hardest thing for him has been learning to *recognize* problems that he should use the calculator on. His inclination is to pound away at a problem trying every possible integration technique rather than to turn to the calculator. The number of problems you really, truly need a graphing calculator for is pretty small from what I can tell, but when you come to one, you'd better know how to recognize it and not waste precious minutes.

 

Ds is taking the AB exam on Thursday after studying AOPS at home. We didn't get through quite enough for him to do the BC (we'll finish it up after the exam or next fall).

I need to second this. Thanks to AoPS dd has a very strong conceptual understanding of math and an aversion to using a calculator ;)

 

She has had the dickens of a time with the graphing calculator---tears, head banging on the table, thrown pencils.

[Joyful]

Thanks, everyone for your insights! It's good to know that AoPS Calc + AP exam is doable, just in case AoPS is the one that DS chooses down the road.

 

Wow, Kathy, thanks so much for sharing with me your plan for prepping for the Calc AP exam. I really appreciate it. Will be sure to use it when the time comes. Yeah, calculator practice is not something that I would have thought important on my own. Thanks for letting me know, so that I give DS plenty of time to use it efficiently.

 

Thanks!