Switching Math Curriculum - advice?

[fshinkevich]

I posted some of this on the RightStart Yahoo Group, but thought I would get opinions here as well - always great advice here :)

 

My daughters are in 2nd and 4th grade. We have been using Saxon math, currently in 2 for 2nd grader and 5/4 for 4th grader. We are a little over halfway through both levels. My 2nd grader went through level 1 no problems, but is now saying how much she dislikes math, and that it's boring. My 4th grader is struggling with fractions and has recently started complaining about math. She is my one kid that has never complained about anything - you give her a school assignment, a chore, tell her to go to bed, etc. she just does it. Now when we pull out the Saxon book her feet shuffle and she starts grumbling. This is not how I want them to feel about any subject.

 

And while I personally enjoyed the scripted lessons of Saxon 1-3 (I know they aren't a favorite of everyone, but math is not my best subject :)) I'm not loving 5/4 as much with having to copy all the problems out of the book, not much fun etc. It just doesn't "gel" with our school style and how we approach other subjects.

 

So I have been looking around to switch them. I purchased a used set of Math on the Level from a lovely Well Trained Mind member, but I don't think it will work as I hoped. I was thinking something like RightStart or Math U See with the hands on manipulatives and games (in RightStart) might help with both the boredom and the troubles with fractions. However, I am concerned about jumping into such different programs so late in the game. I think if I put my 2nd grader in RightStart B the second it shows up and continue math over the summer she would probably be OK in the long run, but I worry about starting a 5th grader in level D as suggested on the website. Has anyone ever started RightStart that late? I see most people are doing D in 3rd grade. For the record, I am not at all worried about the amount of parental participation, and we don't have any state testing where we live, but I don't want her to feel far behind her friends should it come up and there is always the thought in the back of my mind that I don't want them miles behind grade level if something were to happen that required public school. 

 

I was thinking I could maybe do Level D with the 5th grader, but also give her a simple workbook to work through on the side, or just getting her the RightStart fractions kit and Math Games Kit with a different curriculum.

 

Any suggestions for switching to either of these programs so late in elementary, or maybe another math program? Or should we just stick with what we know?

 

Thanks so much

[sweetpea3829]

I do not have personal experience with Rightstart, but have seen others mention that Rightstart's strength is in the earlier levels.  That it sets a good foundation.  But I haven't heard much about the later levels.  

 

As for MUS...it would be an interesting jump, for sure.  I mean for your 2nd grader, probably not so much...but for your 4th grader...it's really late in the game.  A lot of folks jump ship from MUS after 5th/6th grade, as the higher levels are generally looked poorly upon, even by the folks that like MUS for the lower levels.  

 

If it's topical that you are looking for (the Fractions, for example), might I suggest Math Mammoth?  They have a plethora of options...whether your purchase grade level...or you purchase by topic.  I bought the entire bundle on Homeschool Buyer Co-Op when they had a great group buy and from time to time, I pull it out to address specific struggles.  

 

And this summer, I'll be using the grade level material as review.  

 

 

As for the interest and boredom issues...

 

You might take a look at Prodigy Math (linked in my Sig).  It's an online role-playing game that neatly wraps math right into the game itself.  The players have to defeat opponents, complete quests, etc...and in order to do so, they have to answer math questions.  

 

It's free, customizable, intuitive, and engaging.  My kids beg to play.  You might use it as motivation or just plain review, which is what we do.  I use it for spiral review of math concepts.  

 

So that's an option to help with the lack of interest.  HTH!  

[KSinNS]

Grade 4 and 2 are certainly not too late to change math. However, you likely will need to go back a bit in order to make sure all the topics are covered. I have no experience with RS. I love MUS. However, it will take your kids out of the standard sequence, and your 9 yo will likely test into beta or gamma. This is not really a problem, because you can get a very solid foundation that way, but it gets pricy as you fly through 2-3 books per year. And it can make an unexpected transition back to ps tough. Also, MUS can be dry, so I supplement with BA and games. I love math, and my kids generally like it, so this is working pretty well for us. Also, many people feel MUS is "light" by the time you get to the high school level. No personal experience, so I can't really comment at this point.

[sbgrace]

I really love RS as a foundational program, so switching the 2nd grader who is bored with Saxon to RS sounds great to me.

 

I don't think I would switch the 5th grader to RS. The best of RS is in the early levels imo. How about CLE? It's spiral like Saxon but I think most kids find it more pleasant. I haven't used Saxon, but my kids like the variety of problems in each lesson of CLE. She wouldn't have to copy the problems either.

 

If you decide to try CLE, you could just purchase one Light Unit at first. If you want to try, do the placement test first to put her in the right level. Don't purchase the first light unit in each level (say 401) as your trial light unit. The first LU's of each level are soley review from the previous level and very different from the rest of the program.

 

I like Singapore FAN Math books as a word problem supplement to, well, nearly any program (start at lower levels to learn the foundational skills in setting up simple problems). I use FAN math with our CLE.

[Rosie_0801]

You're ahead of where we are, so I can't comment on programs to use, but we've used several programs here and to dd, maths is just maths. Maybe you can switch between two programs without dropping the first one, at least for a while until you feel comfortable.

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

We switched from Saxon for some of the same reasons.  After reviewing tons of math programs, we switched to A Beka, which is very similar in style, but not the most popular choice.  However, the colorful workbooks and the order they present the math facts made all the difference in the world for my son (Plus I let him doodle on the pages.)  I realized we didn't need to change styles completely.  I wouldn't say math is his favorite yet, mainly because he struggles with speed of his math fact memory, but he would do ten A Beka lessons before a Saxon lesson.  I do add our Saxon manipulatives in for explaining concepts, and we bought the Right Start game kit to supplement, which contains the meat of the program.  My oldest also is transitioning to Beast Academy, and he loves that.

 

I say this not to sell you on A Beka, but to point out that before you switch to any program that looks great, you need to determine the issues of Saxon and what exactly makes your child hate it.  Is it the redundancy, the black and white monotonous pages, the timed fact worksheets, copying out the lesson, etc.?  What are the things they like about Saxon?  Do they like manipulatives?  Do they like or dislike the more traditional explanations?  Do they understand it really well but just think it's drudgery?  Once you have asked yourself those questions, you can better understand your needs and narrow down to the programs that best fit your needs.

[tmstranger]

I really love RS as a foundational program, so switching the 2nd grader who is bored with Saxon to RS sounds great to me.

 

I don't think I would switch the 5th grader to RS. The best of RS is in the early levels imo. How about CLE? It's spiral like Saxon but I think most kids find it more pleasant. I haven't used Saxon, but my kids like the variety of problems in each lesson of CLE. She wouldn't have to copy the problems either.

 

If you decide to try CLE, you could just purchase one Light Unit at first. If you want to try, do the placement test first to put her in the right level. Don't purchase the first light unit in each level (say 401) as your trial light unit. The first LU's of each level are soley review from the previous level and very different from the rest of the program.

 

I like Singapore FAN Math books as a word problem supplement to, well, nearly any program (start at lower levels to learn the foundational skills in setting up simple problems). I use FAN math with our CLE.

 

My kids both started with Saxon.  Older ds is in Algebra 1, and he likes it. 

 

Younger ds did Saxon 2 and part of 3 when we decided to switch.  Teaching him math was just sucking up my day.  He never complained, but I did!  We switched to CLE.  We both love it and he said he wants to stick with that for next year, too.  It is still spiral, but at the 300 level and above (not sure about lower levels), it is completely independent.  The small LU's give him a sense of accomplishment when he finishes one.  I am also very impressed with how easily it introduces new topics.  I really can't say enough good about it.  And it's inexpensive!

[kirstenhill]

My DD used RightStart in levels A through the first bit of E.  I agree that RightStart's strongest levels are the early ones, and D and E were not as good.  D had a ton of review and was short.   By the time my DD was a 4th grader starting level E, she was ready for more independence.  RightStart is very teacher dependent, even in Level E.  

 

If you like independence and spiral/incremental approach, I also suggest CLE. I picked CLE over Saxon for my DD because you can write in the Light Units and she didn't have to copy the problems.  It's also easier to cut some problems out if topics are mastered or the lessons are too long (I know you aren't "supposed" to do that with Saxon, but no one ever says that about CLE!!!).   My DD did levels 400-600 and it was a great fit.  We're moving on to other things for Pre-Algebra, but I am glad we did those three levels.

 

That being said, RightStart does have an amazing approach with fractions, so I can definitely see supplementing with the Right Start fractions kit.

[fshinkevich]

Thanks so much everyone - very glad I stopped by here before ordering. I think I'm going to get the RS games and fractions kit, and then will look into the other suggested curriculums for our main math program. 

[shinyhappypeople]

Thanks so much everyone - very glad I stopped by here before ordering. I think I'm going to get the RS games and fractions kit, and then will look into the other suggested curriculums for our main math program. 

 

Right Start games are fun.  Also, be sure to check out some games that don't feel like school, e.g. Yahtzee, as well as tangrams, doing math art, and so on.

 

You know, you could just take a break from Saxon for a few weeks, play some games and then try again when you're all feeling more refreshed.  Perhaps you could do a Saxon lesson every other day, with a RS game on the off days or something like that, or stretch a lesson out over two days, or do Saxon 4 days a week and take a "living math" day one day a week or whatever. Tweak it to make it work for your DC at least until the end of their current level.

 

I have jumped ship *so many times* with math it's embarrassing.  This has not been good for my DC's progress.  It seems like they were constantly starting over in a new book which slowed them down a lot :( (That's why I suggest trying to finish out their current level)  I realize now that when I thought something wasn't working, often it was just that we needed to take a break, or stretch it out, or add in a little fun.  

 

If after taking a break and tweaking things, it's still not working, then I'd revisit whether or not to switch programs.

 

Just my .02 :)  Best wishes  :grouphug: