Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 somewhat Disagree - most schools have a limited number of credit hours that can be used (think DE and AP for example) and still retain freshman status - one would have to look at the specific colleges. Don't enroll full-time at CC if freshman status is needed! The big difference with DE is that the student has not graduated from high school yet. The same course at the same college might well make the student a transfer student if it is taken after high school gradation. AP is not a course taken at a college. It is a college level course for which the gaining college/university agrees to grant credit based on exam scores. Freshman vs Transfer status is all based on the variable policy of the gaining institution. Some limit credits - even if they were done as DE. Some accept DE if it is taken on a college campus, but not if done on the high school campus. Some will consider a student as a transfer student if they take even one course post high school graduation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) Is he possibly drawing a distinction between college and university that is a little misleading. A college might be called that because of size, but also because they don't issue graduate degrees or are privately funded. Or simply for historic reasons. A university might have a small enrollment. ETA: It might be worth a conversation with him about what he does and doesn't want in a college/university. Is he opposed to a large campus if it had small class sizes? Or does the campus size itself pose a problem? One point of view I've seen is that a large campus gives a student a wider basis from which to form a network. In other words, it is easier to find a group of Doctor Who/Broadway musical/Jane Austen fans if there is a larger pool to start from. A large campus doesn't mean he has to be friends with 30k other students. Does the CC in your area have a transfer program to a 4 year school that would be a good option. Not saying that every Eng 101 is equivalent. But if there is a transfer agreement, then the schools do work pretty hard to make sure the applicable classes prepare students for their transfers. My sons have found some good like minded people in their CC classes. Sometimes their math courses have dwindled down to 4-8 people in class, so they run more like a tutorial than a big lecture. Edited March 28, 2016 by Sebastian (a lady) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjzimmer1 Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 Is he possibly drawing a distinction between college and university that is a little misleading. A college might be called that because of size, but also because they don't issue graduate degrees or are privately funded. Or simply for historic reasons. A university might have a small enrollment. ETA: It might be worth a conversation with him about what he does and doesn't want in a college/university. Is he opposed to a large campus if it had small class sizes? Or does the campus size itself pose a problem? One point of view I've seen is that a large campus gives a student a wider basis from which to form a network. In other words, it is easier to find a group of Doctor Who/Broadway musical/Jane Austen fans if there is a larger pool to start from. A large campus doesn't mean he has to be friends with 30k other students. Does the CC in your area have a transfer program to a 4 year school that would be a good option. Not saying that every Eng 101 is equivalent. But if there is a transfer agreement, then the schools do work pretty hard to make sure the applicable classes prepare students for their transfers. My sons have found some good like minded people in their CC classes. Sometimes their math courses have dwindled down to 4-8 people in class, so they run more like a tutorial than a big lecture. The reality of the matter is I don't really think he knows what he wants. Local University has a student body of 40,000+. We went and visited and seeing lectures halls larger than our church auditorium is overwhelming. I think it's scary to him to envision himself with that many other people and trying to find a way to fit in. On the other hand, we went and visited another school last week and ended up with a one and one with a department head. He didn't like that either because he didn't know what to say/questions to ask. He like me finds small talk difficult especially with someone completely unknown. However, knowing his personality, I do believe he will do better with a smaller department/student body. The transition will be hard for him no matter where he goes but I think long term he will be happier where there is more closeness between students and staff even if it takes him a year or more to open up enough to make those bonds. Our local CC isn't particularly rigourous (although I say that in context with his advanced studies because there is a limited amount they can offer him, although they have a very extensive list of classes he is simply beyond most of what they offer in his areas of interest), however they do have transfer agreements with many other schools both in state and out of state and from my limited knowledge is respected as a decent CC. Right now I just keep offer him options based on where we are with things. Obviously this late in the year his choices have dwindled considerably from what there was 6 months ago. I sense a certain paralysis in his decision making but he has to make the decisions. I give him options, he has to pick. But I try to guide him to good choices but I struggle with what to suggest to him. Academically he is ready for college and taking time off is bad, he desperately needs the intellectual stimulation. Emotionally. he is not really ready (but getting closer) and taking a year or two off to make sure of what he wants in life would be very very good. How does one balance two completely incompatable needs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 The reality of the matter is I don't really think he knows what he wants. Local University has a student body of 40,000+. We went and visited and seeing lectures halls larger than our church auditorium is overwhelming. I think it's scary to him to envision himself with that many other people and trying to find a way to fit in. On the other hand, we went and visited another school last week and ended up with a one and one with a department head. He didn't like that either because he didn't know what to say/questions to ask. He like me finds small talk difficult especially with someone completely unknown. However, knowing his personality, I do believe he will do better with a smaller department/student body. The transition will be hard for him no matter where he goes but I think long term he will be happier where there is more closeness between students and staff even if it takes him a year or more to open up enough to make those bonds. Our local CC isn't particularly rigourous (although I say that in context with his advanced studies because there is a limited amount they can offer him, although they have a very extensive list of classes he is simply beyond most of what they offer in his areas of interest), however they do have transfer agreements with many other schools both in state and out of state and from my limited knowledge is respected as a decent CC. Right now I just keep offer him options based on where we are with things. Obviously this late in the year his choices have dwindled considerably from what there was 6 months ago. I sense a certain paralysis in his decision making but he has to make the decisions. I give him options, he has to pick. But I try to guide him to good choices but I struggle with what to suggest to him. Academically he is ready for college and taking time off is bad, he desperately needs the intellectual stimulation. Emotionally. he is not really ready (but getting closer) and taking a year or two off to make sure of what he wants in life would be very very good. How does one balance two completely incompatable needs? Just tossing out a few more thoughts. We toured West Virginia Uni (WVU) a few years ago. This is not only a large school, but it's also located in a state/region where many towns are pretty small. One of our guides made a point of discussing the efforts the school went to in order to help students from small towns to get used to what was a big shift in setting. Not only were there regular student socials and an orientation, but also there was a summer outdoor program where incoming students could go camping and rafting with other new freshmen. The guide was a huge fan of this program and had gone on to be an upperclass staff member of the event. He said that when schools started he already had a network, because he'd camped with 12-20 people and they all had 1-2 roommates. So that gave him a group of around 50 people that he already "knew" in the first week of school. So he had people he could eat with or hang out with after classes. Another analogy you might offer to your ds is that of going to a mall. The mall may have hundreds and thousands of people at it. But it may not really matter how many people are at the shoe stores or the hot dog stand if what you are interested in is the game store and the book store. How are classes structured at the local uni? How many courses would be offered in the large lecture halls? A couple a semester? Or maybe just one course freshman year? Does the course have recitation periods with a graduate student and a couple dozen students in addition to the large lecture classes? Are there smaller lab sections? (For example, I had a large lecture class (for my school) for chemistry. But then we were broken down into three smaller sections for our lab period. So the hands on portion was a time where we had more direct attention with the instructor and the lab staff. Not saying that his impression of the local school is wrong. But there may be considerations he's not picking up on. These might make a difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 One of our kids DE at a large university. Even though his lectures had 250 students, he had recitation classes for those lectures that only had about 15 students. I wouldn't assume that large classes means no support or small class component. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I'm a bit confused about your situation, but I have late-blooming sons for whom not every college would work, so maybe I can help? Is the local university with an engineering department close enough for him to live at home while he attended? Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjzimmer1 Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 I'm a bit confused about your situation, but I have late-blooming sons for whom not every college would work, so maybe I can help? Is the local university with an engineering department close enough for him to live at home while he attended? Nan Don't feel bad. At times I am quite confused and I'm living with the kid. He is constantly flopping around about exactly what he is looking for. Yes the local university is close enough to live at home. However, he is adament he does not want to attend here. To the point where he says he would rather not go to college than go to this university. Do I agree with that - no, but I have to respect his wishes. Hence trying to find other options he considers palatable. I know the classes will get smaller as he advances but realistically he is looking at at least one full year of lectures with 300+ students to get past the generals he doesn't have and the intro engineering classes. I'm assuming they have smaller break-out groups but not sure how they structure them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 . I know the classes will get smaller as he advances but realistically he is looking at at least one full year of lectures with 300+ students to get past the generals he doesn't have and the intro engineering classes. I'm assuming they have smaller break-out groups but not sure how they structure them. Normally they are scheduled classes and that is when problems are gone over and homework is discussed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3XBlessed Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Don't write off your local university as a possible option for later on, even if he is against it right now. If the local CC consistently transfers students to the local university, your ds might make friends at CC with other transfer students, which would make transferring there less overwhelming. That is what happened with my Ds1. He changed his mind about our local university once he made friends with other students planning to transfer. Some students really benefit from being close to family, if they have a strong need for emotional support. Your ds might change his mind about the large local university after one or two years at CC, after he has had a chance to mature emotionally. If he has chance to attend an affordable small college, that would be great, too. Warm wishes that you find some good options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Don't feel bad. At times I am quite confused and I'm living with the kid. He is constantly flopping around about exactly what he is looking for. Yes the local university is close enough to live at home. However, he is adament he does not want to attend here. To the point where he says he would rather not go to college than go to this university. Do I agree with that - no, but I have to respect his wishes. Hence trying to find other options he considers palatable. I know the classes will get smaller as he advances but realistically he is looking at at least one full year of lectures with 300+ students to get past the generals he doesn't have and the intro engineering classes. I'm assuming they have smaller break-out groups but not sure how they structure them. I think, then, that I would suggest a compromise. Since it doesn't sound as though going away to college is a good idea, and yet he needs to keep learning, I think I would suggest seeing if he would be willing to take just one class there while living at home and (hopefully) working. That would give him a chance to get used to the place and see if it will work for him. One year may not be enough time (judging by my own children and myself) to grow up enough that living away from home will work. In my family's experience, three years is more like the right amount of time. Your family may be different, of course. If this is true, then persuading him to go to your local uni and continue living at home might be your best option. At any rate, it would give him a chance to get some classes out of the way until he can transfer. I know you said that your local uni is difficult to get into, but there may be a continuing education department that will let him take regular classes without applying as a full time student. His chances of being accepted as a transfer student might be better if he has been successful at classes there already. For what it is worth, I tried going far away to college and wound up coming home again after a year. My father then sent me to our huge state university, the same one where when we visited when I was in high school, I had refused to set foot out of the car, even to grab a catalogue, saying I was never, ever going there. I took a few classes continuing ed and then transferred in. After awhile, I came to appreciate the advantages of a large university. Good luck! Nan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Oh - and in my huge lectures, I signed up for something called a "tutorial" or a "study section". It was a small class of 15 or so students usually led by a grad student. The grad student went over any tricky spots in the lecture, solved extra example problems, helped with studying for the exams, and checked everyone's homework. Tell your son to sit in the front row of the lecture hall. In some ways, a big university is more anonymous and less scary, once you get used to the sheer size. Nan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3XBlessed Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Our CC allows students to concurrently enroll in one class per semester at the local state universities if it is not offered at the CC. If you choose your CC, you might want to see if that is an option for his advanced coursework, if and when he feels ready to try one class at the large university. Maybe he would do better with little steps toward the large university? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 He could also "graduate" HS in December to allow a few more DE classes and possibly apply for the Spring 2017 semester start somewhere (CC or 4 year college). My only concern would be 4 year colleges may not like out of cycle graduation for merit aid (grants) purposes so this route may lead to more loans. Since costs are a big factor in this decision, I think you and DS need to have a good discussion about this topic. He really should have cast his net far and wide possibly using the 50/50 college list to have the best chance in getting merit aid. He needs to mature a little about life and money. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3XBlessed Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 If you are still searching for small engineering schools with good merit scholarships, maybe check out New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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