Visual Latin Vs. CAP Latin for Children Vs. ???

[TheAttachedMama]

I am trying to figure out my future Latin plans.    Previously, I have researched Memoria Press products as well as Classical Academic Press Latin products.    I can't say that I *love* either of those options--    On one hand, MP seems much more incremental and logical, but it looks VERY, VERY, VERY dry.   (In fact, so dry that I think I have ruled it out.)  And on the other hand, CAP looks more engaging/fun, but I feel like it is going to throw too much information too fast at my children.

 

I then started looking at some of the more "whole to part" programs.   (For example, Cambridge Latin and Lingua Latina.)   I think my son would find those stories more fun, however I worry that we would lose some of the benefits of doing a more part-to-whole program.   One of my main goals with Latin is to strengthen grammar and logic skills, and if they aren't really being explicitly taught the grammar I worry that benefit sort of dissolves.    (Also, I think SWB warns not to learn Latin this way...and I have a hard time not following her recommendations! Hahaha)  

 

This then led me to researching Visual Latin with Lingua Latina as a supplement.  (So that maybe I can get the best of both worlds.)    It *looks* really good online, but I don't hear very many people saying good things about it on this board.   I've been reading past threads on TWTM forum, and it doesn't seem to be a very popular program.  Why is that?   Why don't more people use this program?   

 

I've also looked at samples of Latin Prep by Galore Park and Lively Latin.  I can't seem to figure either of those programs out.  They both look like they might be hard to teach for some reason.   Latin is not so tough has been considered too, but I am just not feeling it for some reason.   

 

 

To Summarize:

1)  I need a program that is engaging.  It doesn't have to be "boat loads of fun", but we have a small tolerance for dry and boring in this house.  I want Latin to be a program that my kids look forward to...just like their other subjects. (Yes, my kids look forward and like most of their school work.)

2)  I want a program that we can work through as a family--AND--it needs to be very open and go.   I have no previous Latin experience.    I would like to believe that I would be able to work ahead of my children...but who am I kidding?!   I feel overwhelmed as it is with homeschooling.  :)  In reality, I am lucky to even get around to teaching Latin...let alone being able to spend a bunch of time prepping lessons and reading ahead.

3)  My children are very slightly dyslexic.   They are reading and spelling at grade level (just barely)---but that is mostly because we spend an incredible amount of our energy remediating this area using special programs.   (Hence the reason I don't have a lot of time to learn Latin ahead of my children.)   This is one of the main reasons I worry that CAP products might not be a good fit for my children.   I worry that they will move way too fast and overwhelm them.

 

 

Current and Future Latin Plans:

(Years are tentative...we may take more time than listed.)   

 

2nd and 3rd grade (Now):  I am using SSL 1 and 2 with Headventure Land and ANKI with the goal to teach them some vocabulary and "expose" them to the language. They like these programs and think they are really, really fun.  This has been a good choice for this year as we focus on learning to read and write in English.  :)

 

3rd and 4th grade:  I am thinking of using GSWL and Andrew Cambell's "I speak Latin" as a fun supplement to break up the routine when we need it.  

 

4th and 5th grade + :  ?????   Visual Latin  and  Lingua Latina  ????? 

 

[Freedom]

FWIW, we tried SS Spanish and it was too much for us....which is along the lines of what you're feeling about CAP Latin products, so you are probably right. Subsequently, I decided to switch to teaching Latin first and after too much looking around I decided on someone else teaching us aka DVD. So I got Prima Latina and it is dry but I make it fun learning along with DS and playing memory and speed matching with the vocab cards I make myself. Then DS "teaches" Daddy what he learns...which is just plain funny. I love Prima Latina and plan on using the next level DVD Latin course from Memoria Press because it is so easy, open and go, and we can it fun in the meantime.

[...................]

We tried CAP Latin And CAP Spanish. We thought it was SUPER fun, super open and go, super easy to use, and very engaging.

 

Our problem was the level of commitment required. It takes about 45 minutes per day to do it. You really have to use all the components otherwise your child will get lost.

 

I guess we just felt like that was too much time and effort at the time. I'm considering doing Spanish again this coming year for my 7th grader who is more independent now and haven't ruled our CAP zoo because it was truly well done.

 

So, I don't know if this helps.

[lexi]

I'm listening in. I keep debating over both Latin and Spanish.

MP stuff seems so horribly dry. I've looked at a few of their products and I think they look so uninspiring. I don't even want to use them. I know my kids will not be a fan. And with all my littles I don't have the energy to add stuff to them to make them fun.

I think we are going to try CAP for Latin (LfC). I'm going to splurge and get everything that goes with it and we're going to dive in and commit to doing it well for a year and see how it goes.

But I have no idea what I'm doing.....so I'll be watching what others recommend.

[lollie010]

I am heading out of the door so sorry for the brevity, but my situation is similar to yours. I started CAP Latin with dyslexic kiddos and it's been the best time investment we have made. We all do it together, some parts orally if I think its too much writing. It take us a little over a year to finish a level with spending on average 20 minutes a day. It has done wonders for their language skills (even reading, since they had to learn how to read in a different language they applied those skills to reading in English). They are now working pretty much independently, not needing my help very often. If you need any specifics, I will have more time this weekend to chat!

[lexi]

I am heading out of the door so sorry for the brevity, but my situation is similar to yours. I started CAP Latin with dyslexic kiddos and it's been the best time investment we have made. We all do it together, some parts orally if I think its too much writing. It take us a little over a year to finish a level with spending on average 20 minutes a day. It has done wonders for their language skills (even reading, since they had to learn how to read in a different language they applied those skills to reading in English). They are now working pretty much independently, not needing my help very often. If you need any specifics, I will have more time this weekend to chat!

This sounds encouraging! I'd love to hear more about how you use the program when you have time.

[SilverMoon]

LFC has met every one of your requirements in my house, but there isn't a lick of dyslexia involved here. If you're concerned about the volume you'd be perfectly fine to slow the book down. A lesson generally lasts one week at the intended speed. You could use the activity book and free review pages to stretch that out, and/or do a couple/few just Headventureland.com practice days. That would give the vocab and grammar more time to sink in.

[GeoKitty]

We are using Visual Latin.  It is our first foray into Latin.  I am using it with my fifth and seventh graders.  They love it.  The teacher is entertaining.  It is not easy.  The first half wasn't too bad.  We are now camped out on lesson  17 (there are 30 lessons for the year).  It has gotten much more demanding. There are three videos a week, as well as worksheets for grammar, and translation, and a weekly quiz.   I would recommend  it, but certainly wait until middle school age.  huh

[TheAttachedMama]

Thanks everyone for answering!

 

For those of you that use CAP latin products...did you ever consider or try Visual Latin?  If so, what made you switch or rule it out?

[SeaConquest]

Since we seem to be in about the same place with Latin, I thought I would throw out our plan.

 

After we finish SSL2 (in a few weeks), we are going to read through Minimus for the rest of the year. Next year, we plan to do GSWL and Minimus Secundus. The following year, I plan to enroll Sacha in Lively Latin's online class, which covers LL1 and LL2 (LL3 is still being written). Not sure if this is in your budget, or if you even want to begin outsourcing (I do!!). I've read good things about LL, and the author is even a teacher at our charter school, so the charter will pay for the class -- bonus! If outsourcing is a possibility, you might look at LL. After that, I plan to oursource to Lukeion (Wheelock) or the Harvey Center (Latin for the New Millennium). 

 

 

 

[siloam]

 

I then started looking at some of the more "whole to part" programs.   (For example, Cambridge Latin and Lingua Latina.)   I think my son would find those stories more fun, however I worry that we would lose some of the benefits of doing a more part-to-whole program.   One of my main goals with Latin is to strengthen grammar and logic skills, and if they aren't really being explicitly taught the grammar I worry that benefit sort of dissolves.    (Also, I think SWB warns not to learn Latin this way...and I have a hard time not following her recommendations! Hahaha)  

 

To Summarize:

3)  My children are very slightly dyslexic.   They are reading and spelling at grade level (just barely)---but that is mostly because we spend an incredible amount of our energy remediating this area using special programs.   (Hence the reason I don't have a lot of time to learn Latin ahead of my children.)   This is one of the main reasons I worry that CAP products might not be a good fit for my children.   I worry that they will move way too fast and overwhelm them.

 

 

We are all dyslexic to some degree here as well.

 

You are ahead of me, I was always too busy with LA to get to Latin when they were young.  Thus I start them in 4th grade doing 1 page a day in Lively Latin.  They do well for the most part and enjoy it till the end where it starts to speed up and make jumps they don't follow.  All of my kids started out liking the program but ended up so very glad to be finished.  I would recommend the program, but only if you are OK with it getting rough at the end and maybe stopping or if you know Latin you can explain it more fully.

 

I've tried Minimus, which my kids did enjoy for the most part.  It is put out by Cambridge, but the TM's are so expensive I hesitate to recommend it. 

 

My oldest went through First Form Latin 1.  That was a lot of conjugating and not a lot of fun, so I haven't used it again.

 

Cambridge 1 is ideal for a translation program, but I can say that unless you really know Latin, don't go there.  I was lost (but my only experience was Lively Latin 1).  My oldest managed to work her way through about 1/4 of it on her own before she asked for something else.  She has always waned to come back to it but never has.  If I had more time to figure out things it also would have been fine but my son turned out to have the most sever issues of all of us, so he took up most of my time.

 

The last program I tried (because it was a winner here) was Ecce Romani.  It is a combination of translation with grammar work with great explanations.  I have three in it right now and all still love it and understand it without my help. (win! win!) 

 

Hopefully some of our journey will help your road to be more easy.

 

Heather

 

[ScoutTN]

Thanks everyone for answering!

 

For those of you that use CAP latin products...did you ever consider or try Visual Latin?  If so, what made you switch or rule it out?

 

We are enjoying LfC and agree with Silver Moon's post about being able to adjust the pacing to suit your student. 

The videos are not high quality, but we like Chris Perrin's calm, geeky vibe and the puppet show is hilarious. My daughter is learning the grammar and the vocabulary.

 

I do think that GSWL is a good next step or parallel with LfC because it is more focused on translating and gets the student applying the grammar. My Dd and I both enjoyed this program.

 

I think LfC is very accessible for mid to upper elementary. Visual Latin is aimed for middle school or even early high school, not elementary. It is a fast paced course and gets difficult fairly quickly. 

 

Dwane Thomas (VL instructor) is very funny and a fabulous teacher, but his methodology is very different. Definitely whole to parts. I want my student to be prepared for the NLE and eventually for AP Latin.  Visual Latin would not get us there. There are only two years of VL,  just as most high school courses do Wheelock's in two years and then on to reading. I think Dwane's live classes (I live in the same city he does.) or online classes could be great for an older, motivated student. Not sure my 10 yr old can do it, though. Not sure she would if I dropped her in as a high school student. I don't think that his critique of parts to the whole Latin instruction is totally accurate either. Many generations of students in Europe and America have learned Latin in a traditional way and can/could indeed read Latin and use it. So much depends on the particular student. 

 

http://www.dwanethomas.com/

 

 

Also, as my students progress I will eventually enroll them in an online class for upper level Latin. Wilson Hill and CAP both offer classes for Latin Alive, so I choose for continuity. 

 

eta: While I am by no means a Latin scholar, I did have several years of it in school and can confidently help my kids with the early levels. 

Edited February 19, 2016 by ScoutTN

[TheAttachedMama]

We are enjoying LfC and agree with Silver Moon's post about being able to adjust the pacing to suit your student. 

The videos are not high quality, but we like Chris Perrin's calm, geeky vibe and the puppet show is hilarious. My daughter is learning the grammar and the vocabulary.

 

I do think that GSWL is a good next step because it is more focused on translating and gets the student applying the grammar. 

 

I think LfC is very accessible for mid to upper elementary. Visual Latin is aimed for middle school or even early high school, not elementary. It is a fast paced course and gets difficult fairly quickly. 

 

Dwane Thomas (VL instructor) is very funny and a fabulous teacher, but his methodology is very different. Definitely whole to parts. I want my student to be prepared for the NLE and eventually for AP Latin.  Visual Latin would not get us there. There are only two years of VL,  just as most high school courses do Wheelock's in two years and then on to reading. I think Dwane's live classes (I live in the same city he does.) or online classes could be great for an older, motivated student. Not sure my 10 yr old can do it, though. Not sure she would if I dropped her in as a high school student. I don't think that his critique of parts to the whole Latin instruction is totally accurate either. Many generations of students in Europe and America have learned Latin in a traditional way and can/could indeed read Latin and use it. So much depends on the particular student. 

 

http://www.dwanethomas.com/

 

 

Also, as my students progress I will eventually enroll them in an online class for upper level Latin. Wilson Hill and CAP both offer classes for Latin Alive, so I choose for continuity. 

That was a very helpful review of both programs.   Thanks so much!!   

 

 

[BlueSalvia]

My search for a comparison between CAP's LFC and Visual Latin led me to this forum. The original post to this thread sums up many of my own thoughts and feelings. I began a light introduction to Latin using GSWL the summer before 4th grade. Then I came across CAP's LfC and Memoria Press' programs. I felt MP might be too dry, so I went with LfC for 4th grade. LfC seemed to be a good fit as it was engaging and kept our interest. However, we struggled to complete the first course in a year because the lessons and vocabulary became increasingly difficult. Before moving on with the rest of LfC, I felt I needed to supplement with MP's Prima Latina. This did help, but my son was becoming bored and asked to continue with LfC instead of going on with the next level of MP's program. We returned to LfC mid 5th grade. At the end of 5th grade, we remain stuck having not completed the first book of LfC. I'm now at a point where I'm considering Visual Latin as a replacement to LfC. After reading the responses to the original post to this thread, I'm not sure what I'll do. I do know I have no intention on giving up on Latin. Even though we continue to run into roadblocks, the benefit of what we have learned far outweighs the struggle to learn Latin. I'll continue to search and read replies in this thread hoping to settle on a solid plan in the next couple of months. Visual Latin seems most appealing at the time, but I'm hearing some of you say that it becomes quite challenging. I appreciate the original post and all of the comments.