Barton Sight Words

[frogger]

Having a son for whom it seems almost impossible to memorize sight words and knowing the vast majority of sight words in Barton are decodable I have to ask why did she put them in there? Agh! I do suppose it is difficult to write stories without some sight words in the beginning.



Has anyone ever managed to just skip the sight words? Will most of them be covered by rules later? If he is just reading a story can't I just provide the sight word for him? I could say it as soon as he gets to it so there isn't any guessing.

If not I will be teaching him some rules or tricks to remember them and not just doing flash cards and writing them because that doesn't work. I may end up teaching them a different way than Barton so it may become confusing later.

Edited February 1, 2016 by frogger

[frogger]

Edited to say if I had all 9 levels I would just study ahead so we could preview the rules but I only own up to level 4 now and the spelling tricks and such that I use are ones I've learned from Spell to Read and Write.

[PeterPan]

I totally agree with you.  I think you could do the highlighter thing as a way of working on spelling, but for the actual *reading* there's just no need to teach these as sight words.  Like you, I have quite a bit of experience with SWR.  There's really no contradiction.  Just teach the reasons why, decode your way into them, and get them to fluency.

 

The *reason* she's introducing them now, I think, is because she wants them now to be able to write better stories, etc.  And I don't mind that.  Doesn't really seem to harm my ds.  But, like you, I teach them with understanding.  

 

So, your concern seems valid to me.  Just plow forward the way you're thinking, because it's fine!  :)

[OneStepAtATime]

Are you using the suggestions in the Barton manual for dealing with "site words"?  She really isn't encouraging memorization in the traditional sense.  I found that when I wasn't using the Barton recommendations, just doing the list as rote memorization, it was a disaster.  We started truly following the Barton methods (along with some great suggestions by OhElizabeth and others) and it worked sooo much better.  If you have really been trying those methods and it isn't working, though, then I agree, change your game plan. 

 

FWIW, rote memorization doesn't work at all for DD.  I totally get that.  When she was in school, she wasted hours and hours every.single.week. trying to rote memorize those awful "site word" lists from school.  I cringe when I think back on that time.  We studied those lists 7 days a week.  We wasted so much time and she hardly retained any of it.  If I had had any clue about the difference between phonics and whole language, we could have started on Barton and dealt with a lot of the mess much more effectively.  You are right, what are normally "site words" really mostly don't have to be, even in the Barton lists.

 

As for when we started the site words in Barton, I was so worried as to how she would handle more site words after her years and years of failure.  I went slow, followed the suggestions in the TM very carefully, and the words started sticking.  I had to do more review than suggested in the TM but it worked well.  Unfortunately, for time's sake, I sort of slipped back into more rote memorization and DD started struggling again.  I switched back to the other and DD eventually did so well with that method (and sometimes incorporating additional suggestions from this board) that we were able to actually get ahead by a level.  Her Barton site word list is from the level after the one she is in now.  Having those words available to her in her writing has helped her confidence so much.

 

DS has not had the same success as DD, FWIW, but he has other issues that are compounding the problem.

 

Whatever you do, OP, I wish you all the success in the world.  Good luck.

Edited February 1, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[Jenn in CA]

We don't study the spelling of the sight words, but I printed the fluency drills and have them read the sight words regularly. For some reason they are very easy for my girls to read, even though they can't spell them. So they feel successful, and it's helped them to be able to read more on their own.

 

One day we'll work on the spelling, probably using SWR rules/methods too. But it won't be for a while. (My girls are on the end of Level 3 and Level 4.) SB's sight word techniques haven't helped here either, I think mainly because my girls are pretty young (7 & 8).

 

When they need to spell a sight word, say in a dictation exercise, I just show it to them and they copy it.

 

The contractions (Level 3, lesson 10) have been a bear because they're all based on sight words (would, have, etc.) but I just don't expect mastery. They just copy them and apply the contraction rules as well as they can.

[frogger]

The marking in red trick does help him remember there is a red letter in there somewhere but not always in the right spot and it all seems so temporary.

 

He does read them much easier. So yes still reviewing the reading would be a quick to at least keep them in his mind and since it doesn't take as long as spelling.

 

Then I can group them and teach them phonetically at a slower pace.

[Guest2]

Wait, I don't have my manual in front of me, but don't you draw a picture on the sight word card to assist with memory? Isn't that how you memorize the words? We actually love this part. We usually do something silly, typically using a word that rhymes and a quick story.

 

Red letter? Isn't that for the spelling? I should grab a manual, but I don't want to wake the dogs. Now the spelling cards...that is another story.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Silver Brook

[frogger]

You are right. I'm sorry. I was never very clear in my original post. I need to quit posting from a phone in my spare minutes between things. Besides being confusing it look like I shouldn't be teaching spelling by the time the phone is done autocorrecting me. Or at least I should by playing the homonym game more. ;)

 

He struggles more with spelling the sight words than reading them. It takes awhile but he does get reading them down at some point. Spelling them though never seems to click.

[PeterPan]

Frogger, outlandish thought, but what happens if he *types* the words or dictates them or spells them aloud?  (ie. if you segregate out any possible dysgraphia component)

[Julie of KY]

Are you using the suggestions in the Barton manual for dealing with "site words"?  She really isn't encouraging memorization in the traditional sense.  I found that when I wasn't using the Barton recommendations, just doing the list as rote memorization, it was a disaster.  We started truly following the Barton methods (along with some great suggestions by OhElizabeth and others) and it worked sooo much better.  If you have really been trying those methods and it isn't working, though, then I agree, change your game plan. 

 

OK. Now I'm second guessing myself. For Barton sight words, we are writing them on index cards and then drawing pictures. Is there something more we should be doing so it isn't rote memorization.

 

I would love to jump ahead and teach how to decode the words, but that doesn't make any sense as he needs tons of practice with each new "rule".

[frogger]

If the memorization is working (and it does take time) then keep things as they are. My boy is 10 and has been at this reading thing a long time and he is able to read them but still struggles with spelling them even though he has finished the phonics lessons that go with them. If I move on they stack up. My son also has phonics background from a different program. But that doesn't mean you should change what you are doing unless it really isn't working.

[OneStepAtATime]

OK. Now I'm second guessing myself. For Barton sight words, we are writing them on index cards and then drawing pictures. Is there something more we should be doing so it isn't rote memorization.

 

I would love to jump ahead and teach how to decode the words, but that doesn't make any sense as he needs tons of practice with each new "rule".

Well, there are several things for the Site word spelling.  Not as much for the reading, but there are additional suggestions on the website, which I won't list here because I am not logged on to Barton right now and don't remember them off the top of my head.  I encourage you to look them up, though.  They might help if the normal procedures aren't working.  For the normal procedures, according to the manual:

 

Site Words Reading:

• Create a flash card for each word not read correctly 
• Have the student create a "clue" image in the lower left corner of the flash card
• Only work on 3 words at a time.  Do not add more words to work on until the first 3 are mastered.

 

Site Words Spelling:

• When the student spells words from the list, stop when they have misspelled 3 words.
• Create a flash card for the 3 words not spelled correctly. 
• Write the "tricky letter" in red.
• Have the student stare at the card until they can "picture" it in their mind.
• Close their eyes and see if they can still picture the word.
• Open their eyes and look at a blank wall.  See if they can picture the word written on the wall.
• Discuss the tricky letter they are seeing on the wall.  Ask them, when they are spelling that tricky letter, to say it louder than the other letters.
• Take away the flash card, and ask the student to spell the word out loud as they look at the image they see on the wall.
• After student has verbally spelled the word, student "reads" the word while underlining it with his hand (on the wall).
• Repeat the wall exercise.
• Student now "writes" the word on the table using their index and middle finger as the "pen", saying the letters as they write them and saying the red one loud. (use big arm movements, writing large letters).  
• After spelling it, the student "reads" the word while underlining it with his/her hand.
• Repeat the table spelling.
• Student writes the site word on paper, saying each letter as they write it, and saying the red letter more loudly.  They then underline the red letter.
• Student repeats writing on paper.

The above procedures are done for all three words.  Then, later in the same lesson, during Procedure N: Spell Phrases on Paper, you dictate the spelling words to see if they can still spell them.  If you don't get to Procedure N during the same session you did all of the above, you repeat the above at the beginning of the next session then do the spelling as normal during Procedure N.

 

There are more suggestions on the website and I believe at the back of the TM if the above is not really working well.  The main thing is only to work on 3 words at a time, incorporate whole body movement, verbal responses, visualizing, and whatever else you think might help.  It is a longer process, but incorporating the whole body movement, visualizing, verbal responses and the immediate repetition seem to work pretty well for most students.  

 

FWIW, just creating flash cards did not work well for DD or DS.  We really had to do the whole thing above for stuff to stick.  We also ran into a few words that seemed to be mastered but they forgot them later and we had to repeat the process.  Repeating worked, though, and those words are down now.

 

Hope that helps some.

[Guest2]

Oh,that makes total sense. Frogger, you crack me up. If spelling/ not having autocorrect was a requirement , I would have been booted off years ago.

 

Yes, my kids have had the same problem with spelling. We follow the procedure that One Step just posted. We keep moving through the program and are often 1-2 , sometimes 3 books behind in spelling. I emailed Susan Barton about it when my daughter didn't seem to be catching the words. This is a pharaphrase of what she sent me.

 

Please follow the procedure in the attachment, but if that still does not work...

 

There are a few students who will have extraordinary difficulty retaining the spelling of the sight words when you use the special techniques built into the Barton System. For those very few students, I recommend the following:

 

* Teach the spelling of sight words the same way.

 

* But after the student gets 3 checkmarks in a row, add that word to their "personal dictionary" and retire that spelling card.

 

What is a personal dictionary?

 

It is a small spiral-bound notebook that fits into a shirt pocket, into a zippered case in their binder, or into their purse.

 

Label the top of each page with several letters of the alphabet. For example, the first page might be labeled A, B, C. The second page might be D, E, F. The third page might be G, H, I, J, K (there aren't many sight words that start with those letters) and so on.

 

When you retire a spelling card, pull out the student's personal dictionary and write that word on the appropriate page -- and write the red letter in red.

 

Because the student has practiced that Sight Word extensively during your tutoring sessions, she will remember that it is a sight word when she is writing. She can then pull out her personal dictionary and quickly look it up.

 

Hope that helps!

[frogger]

Ok that is a good idea. I just hate that there is this stack of sight words that continues to grow while we move from lesson to lesson so putting them in a dictionary and moving on will be a relief. I hate to hold back phonics lessons because he has to review sight words so we have been moving on anyway.

[OneStepAtATime]

Ok that is a good idea. I just hate that there is this stack of sight words that continues to grow while we move from lesson to lesson so putting them in a dictionary and moving on will be a relief. I hate to hold back phonics lessons because he has to review sight words so we have been moving on anyway.

Yeah, I totally get this.  DS really struggled for a while with 3 words on the first list in Level 3.  We didn't seem to be able to get off that first list.  DD, on the other hand, eventually started really moving ahead with those lists.  Because one of my kids is "way behind" on site words and one is way ahead, I pulled all the site word lists out, put them in sheet protectors, and stuck them in a separate notebook that I can pull out as needed.  I keep their checklists for each level of site words in there, too.  We sometimes work on these separately, with games and other activities.

 

DD is a full level ahead of where she is in Barton lessons and would be farther but I slowed her down since I don't own the next level up.  DS is finally solid on all the words in Level 3 so we will start moving into Level 4.  He is just now starting Level 4 again anyway.  He hit snags last year and we had to work on those snags with another program before he could progress in Barton.  Therefore, we are now repeating Level 4.  (I must say I am not looking forward to it.)  He can learn a site word in the moment but doesn't retain long term unless he has reviewed in lots of different ways many, many times.  I sometimes pull out previous lists to double check that he still has words solid.

 

In other words, I just find it easier to have the lists separate and easy for me to get to.  I got tired of having to dig them back out again, KWIM?