jkl Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) I've been watching my ds10 fall into the same math trap that I did as a kid He's memorizing algorithms and plugging numbers in without really understanding the concepts behind what he's doing. We have used McRuffy for the past 2 years and I do not want to switch away from it mid-year. However, I feel like I need to do something. He is using Dreambox on the side, but getting very frustrated with it (even though I signed him up at a lower grade level.) What should I be doing now? (Also, what curriculum should I be thinking about for next year that might address these issues?) Thanks for any advice! Edited January 30, 2016 by jkl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Singapre is my personal pick atm, I am moving away from my current curric to it right now. Beast Academy can be good at forcing him to apply math outside the box IF he has the patience for it For free, I think Khan Academy videos are great with explanations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 If it were me, I would buy the Math Mammoth light blue series (currently 40% at Homeschool Buyers Co-Op, but only through 2/1). In fact, that is exactly what I did a year ago and my oldest has been using it with great success ever since. Math Mammoth is a really strong conceptual program, like Singapore math, but unlike Singapore, Math Mammoth is very affordable because it doesn't require buying a ton of different books. If you wanted your son to review the Singapore method and start that program next year, you would need to buy textbooks and workbooks (and maybe challenging word problems) for 1a and 1b and 2a and 2b and 3a and 3b. If you buy the download of Math Mammoth, on the other hand, you will have levels 1 through pre-algebra that you can print (or use directly on a tablet) over and over for all your kids. If you do decide to use Math Mammoth (to help you decide they offer great sample downloads on their site), I would help him use the previous levels as a review and to help build his understanding. About half the chapters are on money, time, charts/graphs, measurement, etc, so if he doesn't need help with those then you could skip them entirely. Then I would sit with him and flip through the chapters on basic concepts and read the teaching boxes. Math Mammoth is written directly to the student and has boxes that contain instruction and sample problems interspersed with practice problems, word problems, puzzles and reviews. If anything, Math Mammoth has too much review (my opinion), and I never make my son do all the problems. Since much of the first few levels will be review for your son, I would only have him to a few problems to show that he understands the concepts being presented rather than just the correct answers. For example, in a chapter about making 10s, they might have the problem 8 + 4, but rather than jumping to the answer they want the child to first rewrite it as 10 + ___. I think before you let your son move on, you want to make sure he has a rock solid understanding of place value and regrouping in addition and subtraction. It will also help him with conceptual math if he has practice with some mental math strategies. Wendy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I agree with the MM advice. It's a lot easier to jump into mid-stream and a lot easier for an American-educated parent to teach imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkl Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the suggestions! We tried Math Mammoth briefly in the 2nd grade, but the mastery part of it was not a good fit for him. I wonder if I could use it as a supplement... Maybe have him start near the beginning in MM for the conceptual part while moving along with Mcruffy. We went with McRuffy because he hated math and would literally cry over it every day. McRuffy saved us in that regard, but i don't think he's getting the math education that I want him to have. Maybe it is time to move on. Hmmm, still thinking it through. Edited January 30, 2016 by jkl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiara.I Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I'm not sure what level he's in, but something like Rightstart is great for thorough understanding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I like Wendy's suggestion, but if you need mastery, I do think that MM offers a more topical approach as well--it's just a different set of materials. If that's not going to work, Singapore might be a better fit. For sure, check out Education Unboxed (free videos online), and don't be afraid to start at the beginning and work up. You might need to bring in an incentive to get the child on board with reviewing, but it's often the "little" stuff that makes up the conceptual understanding. OTOH, if you are pretty sure you know what he gets conceptually and what he does not, then you can probably weed through what you need to work on. I would watch videos and then present the concepts to him. I wouldn't just let him loose with the videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkl Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 I'm not sure what level he's in, but something like Rightstart is great for thorough understanding. I've looked at RS before, but it's waaaay too teacher intensive for me to pull off right now... I like Wendy's suggestion, but if you need mastery, I do think that MM offers a more topical approach as well--it's just a different set of materials. If that's not going to work, Singapore might be a better fit. For sure, check out Education Unboxed (free videos online), and don't be afraid to start at the beginning and work up. You might need to bring in an incentive to get the child on board with reviewing, but it's often the "little" stuff that makes up the conceptual understanding. OTOH, if you are pretty sure you know what he gets conceptually and what he does not, then you can probably weed through what you need to work on. I would watch videos and then present the concepts to him. I wouldn't just let him loose with the videos. Thanks! That's a good idea too. Maybe too time intensive for me as well...Just trying to be realistic about what I can do. My 1 year old is slightly difficult :) I think there are a few possible options that will work for us. I'd love input on which may be best. 1. Finish out 4th grade with what we have been doing (McRuffy daily with Dreambox twice a week) Then, over the summer, have him start back a few grade levels with MM, hitting the parts that he needs the most help with. Then start McRuffy in 5th with MM as a supplement. 2. Stop McRuffy now and go back through MM until he's up to grade level. I don't think we could use MM long-term as our main program, though, since it's not a good fit for him (He needs spiral! And less crowded pages!) But then, where to go from there? 3. Keep doing McRuffy and Dreambox this year, adding in a page or 2 of MM (a few grade levels behind) daily. The McRuffy lessons are pretty short, so this is doable. But what about next year?? Anyone have any thoughts on this at all? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica_in_Switzerland Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I've looked at RS before, but it's waaaay too teacher intensive for me to pull off right now... Thanks! That's a good idea too. Maybe too time intensive for me as well...Just trying to be realistic about what I can do. My 1 year old is slightly difficult :) I think there are a few possible options that will work for us. I'd love input on which may be best. 1. Finish out 4th grade with what we have been doing (McRuffy daily with Dreambox twice a week) Then, over the summer, have him start back a few grade levels with MM, hitting the parts that he needs the most help with. Then start McRuffy in 5th with MM as a supplement. 2. Stop McRuffy now and go back through MM until he's up to grade level. I don't think we could use MM long-term as our main program, though, since it's not a good fit for him (He needs spiral! And less crowded pages!) But then, where to go from there? 3. Keep doing McRuffy and Dreambox this year, adding in a page or 2 of MM (a few grade levels behind) daily. The McRuffy lessons are pretty short, so this is doable. But what about next year?? Anyone have any thoughts on this at all? :) MM offers a review series- it is just the chapter and cumulative reviews from the original texts, but grouped into one text to make your life easier. It's either the Green or Golden series, can't remember. I use this when we hit a rough patch in SM. We slow down to glacier pace in SM, and work through cumulative reviews. By the time we've caught back up to where we are in SM, something has shaken loose from ds's head and we can move forward at normal pace again. :-) Another option to consider is to keep your usual curriculum, but supplement with a word problem book like SM CWP. With word problems, you must really understand the WHY for each operation before choosing to use it. It's true that from there you can use an algorithm for the solution, but knowing when to do what with which numbers is a big, big deal that many people struggle with. You can use it one or more grade levels behind. If you use the SM CWP, you will also get to use bar models for problems, and this is a huge conceptual aid. My son (SM4) has solved problems with bar models that I thought would be impossible without algebra. It's a very powerful method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I don't think we could use MM long-term as our main program, though, since it's not a good fit for him (He needs spiral! And less crowded pages!) But then, where to go from there? I must have read this wrong the first time. I thought you said he he needed mastery. Sorry about that. Doesn't MM have both topical versions and a more spiral program? I thought they were conceptual but spiral? I am not sure what is both conceptual and spiral otherwise. I know a lot of people who need spiral go with Saxon, CLE, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/580662-any-such-thing-as-spiral-conceptual-math-program/ Maybe this thread would help as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkl Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/580662-any-such-thing-as-spiral-conceptual-math-program/ Maybe this thread would help as well. Thanks! That was a great thread! I bought MM on sale at Homeschool Buyers Co-op, and I'm going to go ahead and supplement with that. Thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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