Existential Nihilism novels

[lewelma]

My ds has really enjoyed his recent philosophical novels, having read Brother's Karamazov and lots of Lem.  We just read Hemingway's short story, A Clean Well-Lighted Place, and he is very interested in reading a Nihistic novel.  Goodreads has a list here https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/nihilism .  I was looking at the top choice, The Stranger, and it seems like it would be hard for a 15 year old to connect to it; whereas, Fight Club, based at least on the movie that I have seen might be more interesting to him.  I don't really want to depress him (which obviously is kind of hard to do with these types of books), but having just spent an hour reading up on this topic, he is really really interested. 

 

Does anyone have a suggestion that is not too long (so if it is depressing, it will be over quickly), and that is engaging.

 

Thanks,

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Edited November 26, 2015 by lewelma

[JoanHomeEd]

Personally not into any Lit at all, but from one teen to another teen, the suggestion is The Metamorphosis  

by Franz Kafka (warning: thick in symbolism).

[Tsuga]

Well, Karamazov is an antidote-to-nihilism novel so if he liked that he should love Turgenev's Fathers and Sons. I read it as a teen and it was my entry to the world of literature. It's much shorter than Brothers Karamazov and way fewer characters but in my opinion just as rewarding. Well, okay, maybe not, but per page, most certainly. The character Bazarov is a nihilist. I still love that book.

[EndOfOrdinary]

I know you do not massively restrict your kid's reading, but I would greatly caution just about any parent on having a teen younger than 16 or 17 even attempt Fight Club. It takes dark to a level of "Whoa!" I love the book. Totally knocked my socks off, made me very excited, gave me words I didn't have, but also had me cringing and very disturbed (to the point of lost sleep) at more than a couple others. Fanstastic book. Definitely pre-read. If your son is down for that it, I could give you quite a book list!

 

P.s. I honestly do not say this lightly. I am big on unrestricted reading, listening, watching. Fight Club makes it on my restricted list. The movie was very tame comparatively.

[lewelma]

I'm happy to take your advice!  The other book/series currently on the restricted list is Game of Thrones. 

 

He just started The Stranger and wants to read Fathers and Sons next.  But our tour through all the great books has also put Tolstoy on his list.  :001_smile: 

 

There is only one book my ds has ever started that he refused to finish and that is Metamorphasis.  He found it terribly disturbing.  He said that the family basically tortured their son, and then was horrified to find that I found the book funny.  :001_unsure:  So although I appreciate the suggestion, Joan, that book is definitely on the 'no' list!

[Brad S]

I don't know your son, but I would tread carefully with existential nihilist novels, esp. under about age 18.  They can be seriously depressing.  At about age 15, I didn't find Kafka's Metamorphosis depressing, but some stories really are, especially longer ones, even after age 18, although with age they seem to have less risk.  Sorry I don't have great suggestions, but it seems that reading in a group of non-depressed people would help.  Maybe just discussing with you along the way is sufficient.  And I'd agree with the comment above about shorter ones having a benefit of not getting as deeply involved in the characters for a long time. Your mileage may vary.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Game of Thrones is on our list as well! Sons of Anarchy also made it.

[madteaparty]

I don't know your son, but I would tread carefully with existential nihilist novels, esp. under about age 18. They can be seriously depressing. At about age 15, I didn't find Kafka's Metamorphosis depressing, but some stories really are, especially longer ones, even after age 18, although with age they seem to have less risk. Sorry I don't have great suggestions, but it seems that reading in a group of non-depressed people would help. Maybe just discussing with you along the way is sufficient. And I'd agree with the comment above about shorter ones having a benefit of not getting as deeply involved in the characters for a long time. Your mileage may vary.

I also agree that Metamorphosis is the mildest of Kafka's short stories. I'd tread carefully if he found that one hard to finish...

[lewelma]

Thanks guys for the heads up. I certainly don't want to depress a teen!  

 

For some background, DS is really into philosophical novels ever since he read Brother's Karamazov and loved it. But it was Lovecraft that introduced him to the theme of human insignificance, and he read all 60 short stories/novellas. Last month he read House of Leaves, and took a very philosophical approach to writing about the different types of fear portrayed in the novel, and he argued that the fear of insignificance was the most important. This got him researching nihilism, which lead us to Hemingway.  Two days ago, we spent 3 full hours discussing A Clean Well Lighted Place, a three-page short story by Hemingway.  I was focusing on the idea that the old man wanted to be in the light and at a cafe to scare off his fear of nothingness. But then ds made what I considered an insightful leap -- that a clean well-lit place was desired by these empty nothing people because it also was nothing.  That even a dirty place was *something*.  He argued that if you feel that you and life are nothing, you can accept it more easily if you are surrounded by nothing as it is more soothing than being in something that only reminds you that you are nothing. Clear as mud, I know.  :willy_nilly:  Basically, he finds nihilism fascinating.  We are not religious which makes this topic even more interesting to him because he, personally, feels significant and is very curious to understand why. So I don't think this is a voyeuristic desire to observe others' misery.  Instead, I think it is a deeply held human need to understand your own personal significance.  And it appears that these nothing people portrayed in literature are a good foil for him to understand his own feeling of personal value.  

 

Not sure if that makes sense. I'm sure you can all tell that I am not a philosophy major. :tongue_smilie:  

 

If novels are going to bury him, perhaps we stick with short stories.  A Clean Well LIghted Place gave us *huge* fodder for an amazing discussion. Hemingway is really as good as they say.   :001_smile:

Edited November 28, 2015 by lewelma

[DebbS]

I would caution against focusing solely on this type of reading material. It is important to balance it with material that is moral and hopeful. My kids read many of the novels discussed here but in the context of comparing them with other novels with philosophies that are more positive and hopeful towards mankind. The continuum of worldviews from hopelessness to hopefulness, amorality to morality,...are apparent in our daily world.

 

But, don't forget that the teen years are an important time for shaping of a worldview. And worldview is the context that drives how  we choose to live, how we understand others and how we treat others. Also, it's a nuanced point that many of the authors, such as Camus, were pointing out the absurdities of the amoral-ism trend in their own times. They could see where these philosophies lead. If you decide to read Nietzshce, you might want to do it in the context of how his life turned out. 

 

I suggest, that this sort of reading material, especially for teens, requires mature and knowledgeable mentoring.