Question about Phonics and Speech Delay

[Junie]

Dd5 has been diagnosed with speech delay.  I just called to set up a speech therapy evaluation.  That will not be until January.  After that, they said that there is an 8-10 month waiting list.  I may be able to get her in sooner at an office a little farther away.

 

I am not really worried about the therapy.  Dd7 had the same issue and was doing well after about a year of therapy.  However, I truly think that she would have progressed on her own, just maybe not as quickly.

 

Dd5 is a little more delayed that dd7 was, but I still think that it will resolve even if we choose not to do therapy (or can't get in for a while).

 

My main question is:  Can I teach her to read?  How difficult is it to teach phonics to a child who cannot pronounce sounds correctly?  What methods could I use?  I'm sure that there are some people here who have btdt experience.

 

Right now I am focusing on math.  She wants to learn and is happy to do homeschool.  I don't want to hold her back from reading, but I'm not sure how to go about teaching her.

 

TIA,

Junie

[Lecka]

Have you worked on letter sounds?  If so, can she easily identify letter sounds?  Can she easily identify what the first sound is in a word?  Are her speech issues only in articulation?  If so, does she have a stable pattern of substituting one sound for another or, just not saying one sound ----- versus, is it a different mistake every time when she says a word. 

 

It might not be a big deal.  (Or, it might be, it can go either way.) 

 

If you have not done letter sounds or phonemic awareness (what is the first sound in the word, oral blending of sounds) and you try it and she can easily tell you what two words out of three start with the same sound, easily blend (for sounds she can articulate well), then these are good signs. 

 

If she has a hard time with these kinds of things, then those are possible red flags for dyslexia or needing to look into dyslexia-specific programs. 

 

If she can do well, I don't think it is a big deal. 

 

*If you know what she means to say* when she says it (like you know, for a fact, that she says w instead of l, so if she sounds out a word and then says it with a w instead of an l, you know, for a fact, she means l in her head), then I think it may not be a big deal. 

 

For my older son it was all a big deal, because he was not hearing sounds clearly, and some of his speech errors were from not being clear on what sounds exactly were in a word -- maybe some words all just sounded the same to him, if they only differed by one sound, etc, so he was just not clear on the sounds in words.  He had a lot of trouble with knowing what words started with the same sound. Etc. 

 

But I heard from many people, that there kids who had speech issues, could learn to read with no problem, because it was just about not articulating the sounds. 

 

However -- for many kids, when they say a sound, they also hear the sound.  They get feedback that solidifies their connection between a sound and what their mouth is doing.  They associate the sound and their physical actions, all together with the letter, when they learn letters.  If you watch kids sound out words for spelling, you see that they are exaggerating their mouth movements as they slow down and listen to the sounds, too. 

 

For some kids who do not have good articulation, that whole process runs into trouble.

 

For other kids, it is no big deal. 

 

You can do, if you want, activities where she matches pictures that start with the same sound, and things like that, so it is clear what answer she is giving.  Those are phonemic awareness activities.  There are a lot that can be craft-like in some way. 

 

If you see she does well with these, it is not extremely hard, she does not badly hang up on the speech sounds she is not as good at in her speaking...... those are good signs. 

 

You could also google and see how she does at phonemic awareness activities, too.  If she is good at them, that is a good sign.  If she is not, you probably will want to work on that level, and see if she makes progress.  If she doesn't make progress with it, then speech therapy and/or looking into things like Barton reading are good things to do.

 

She sounds like an eager student, so you can do a lot of things like a game, to see how she does. 

 

If you get a sense like she gets it, and you know what she intends to say, then I think it is not a big deal, though. 

 

If you are not sure what she means to say, you can use picture cards for a lot of things, or letter cards.  You can ask things in a way that she is picking letters to spell a word (or writing if she is good at writing).  Then you can see how well she  understands.  It is not the same guessing game as when it is only oral, sometimes. 

[Junie]

Thank you so much for this!!  Now I know where to start.

 

And yes, she is very eager.  She just started the Abeka K5 Numbers book last week and she is already halfway through it.  She did almost 50 pages on the first day.  She is SO eager.  (And I am so tired, lol.)

 

I know I have a workbook like that around here somewhere.  I'll test her later today or tomorrow to see what she can do, and then I'll post back.

 

Thanks again!

[SporkUK]

Yes, you can. :) They may not make -the- sound, they will make -their- sound for that letter and you can listen for that as you work through any programme. Personally, we love the I See Sam piper books because the boost to my eldest's confidence at 'reading a whole book' was magic for him after struggling with talking and communicating. He still struggles with pronunciation at times (this year we're using piper book's mature reading instruction books to give him further pronunciation and reading outloud practice) but he is a confident re-reading The Hobbit and always seems to have a book in his hand reader now :) I also recommend Super Star Speech for speech activities you can do while you wait. 

 

For what it is worth, my eldest, who had a significant speech and language delay, found learning to read far easier than my now 6 year old who was an early quite articulate talker who could write in neat joined-up script at 5 but still struggles with remember some letter sounds, many letter names, and with reading in general. Speech ability does not always connect with reading ability. Hoping the best for you and your daughter. 

[Junie]

Yes, you can. :) They may not make -the- sound, they will make -their- sound for that letter and you can listen for that as you work through any programme. Personally, we love the I See Sam piper books because the boost to my eldest's confidence at 'reading a whole book' was magic for him after struggling with talking and communicating. He still struggles with pronunciation at times (this year we're using piper book's mature reading instruction books to give him further pronunciation and reading outloud practice) but he is a confident re-reading The Hobbit and always seems to have a book in his hand reader now :) I also recommend Super Star Speech for speech activities you can do while you wait. 

 

For what it is worth, my eldest, who had a significant speech and language delay, found learning to read far easier than my now 6 year old who was an early quite articulate talker who could write in neat joined-up script at 5 but still struggles with remember some letter sounds, many letter names, and with reading in general. Speech ability does not always connect with reading ability. Hoping the best for you and your daughter. 

 

This was exactly what I needed to hear!  Thank you!

[Junie]

Have you worked on letter sounds?  If so, can she easily identify letter sounds?  Can she easily identify what the first sound is in a word?  Are her speech issues only in articulation?  If so, does she have a stable pattern of substituting one sound for another or, just not saying one sound ----- versus, is it a different mistake every time when she says a word. 

 

It might not be a big deal.  (Or, it might be, it can go either way.) 

 

If you have not done letter sounds or phonemic awareness (what is the first sound in the word, oral blending of sounds) and you try it and she can easily tell you what two words out of three start with the same sound, easily blend (for sounds she can articulate well), then these are good signs. 

 

We just worked on this type of activity this morning.  She was ok with some sounds (even some of the sounds that she does not pronounce correctly), but she had a lot of difficulty with the letter c.  She could not recognize that cat, candy, and corn had the same sound.  She did know that ring definitely didn't belong with cat.

 

If she has a hard time with these kinds of things, then those are possible red flags for dyslexia or needing to look into dyslexia-specific programs. 

 

I don't think she has dyslexia.  She does well with math.  It's just the pronunciation of words that seems to be tripping her up.

 

If she can do well, I don't think it is a big deal. 

 

*If you know what she means to say* when she says it (like you know, for a fact, that she says w instead of l, so if she sounds out a word and then says it with a w instead of an l, you know, for a fact, she means l in her head), then I think it may not be a big deal. 

 

She is very consistent in the letters that she doesn't say.  But then she had trouble with the "c" exercise mentioned above.

 

For my older son it was all a big deal, because he was not hearing sounds clearly, and some of his speech errors were from not being clear on what sounds exactly were in a word -- maybe some words all just sounded the same to him, if they only differed by one sound, etc, so he was just not clear on the sounds in words.  He had a lot of trouble with knowing what words started with the same sound. Etc. 

 

But I heard from many people, that there kids who had speech issues, could learn to read with no problem, because it was just about not articulating the sounds. 

 

However -- for many kids, when they say a sound, they also hear the sound.  They get feedback that solidifies their connection between a sound and what their mouth is doing.  They associate the sound and their physical actions, all together with the letter, when they learn letters.  If you watch kids sound out words for spelling, you see that they are exaggerating their mouth movements as they slow down and listen to the sounds, too. 

 

For some kids who do not have good articulation, that whole process runs into trouble.

 

For other kids, it is no big deal. 

 

You can do, if you want, activities where she matches pictures that start with the same sound, and things like that, so it is clear what answer she is giving.  Those are phonemic awareness activities.  There are a lot that can be craft-like in some way. 

 

If you see she does well with these, it is not extremely hard, she does not badly hang up on the speech sounds she is not as good at in her speaking...... those are good signs. 

 

You could also google and see how she does at phonemic awareness activities, too.  If she is good at them, that is a good sign.  If she is not, you probably will want to work on that level, and see if she makes progress.  If she doesn't make progress with it, then speech therapy and/or looking into things like Barton reading are good things to do.

 

She was getting a bit frustrated with the activity this morning.  I think that we'll wait on phonics at least until after the eval. in January.  She is doing really well at math.  I think we'll just plug along with that for the most part and occasionally dip into some phonics.

 

She sounds like an eager student, so you can do a lot of things like a game, to see how she does. 

 

If you get a sense like she gets it, and you know what she intends to say, then I think it is not a big deal, though. 

 

If you are not sure what she means to say, you can use picture cards for a lot of things, or letter cards.  You can ask things in a way that she is picking letters to spell a word (or writing if she is good at writing).  Then you can see how well she  understands.  It is not the same guessing game as when it is only oral, sometimes. 

 

Thank you so much for your help!

 

We will still work on math and handwriting, but at this point, I think that phonics would be frustrating for both of us.

 

And there's no rush.  She's only 5.

[Lecka]

I think you are free to do some of the things that were easier for her, and just stay away from the C sound. 

 

I think you are free to wait for the speech eval since it is coming up so quickly, too. 

 

I think you could try doing some more, though, and just stay away from C for now, and keep it light and fun.  If she can't get an answer, just step in and help her quickly, before she gets frustrated.  Or, ask her mostly questions that you know she will get right, and only occassionally throw in one that she might miss. 

 

You could also play some phonemic awareness games that are low stakes, and just take all the C things out for now. 

 

But January is soon enough, I think it is fine to wait! 

 

There are also things you can do in the car or with your older daughter and her, that could be exposure for her, even if she is not saying answers by herself. 

 

If you said "we are on the way to the li   brar   y" and she can put that into the word library, even stuff like that is practice. 

 

Or if you just said "I'm thinking about buying something that starts with mmmm at the store." 

 

That stuff is hokey and low pressure, but it can help. 

[Junie]

We often do flash cards of some sort during lunch (Spanish, history, planets, landmarks).  Maybe I can find some phonics flash cards or just go around the lunch table asking for words that start with a certain sound.

 

I think I'll go ahead and order the workbook that I used with the older dc.  Then we'll have it for when she is ready.

 

Right now I don't have a lot of time to devote to dd5's schooling.  I have two in high school this year that I'm trying to get moving in the right direction...

[Lecka]

She has got time!

[geodob]

Given her speech difficulties.

Perhaps you could try an opposite approach?

Instead of you pointing at the letter, word and her saying it?

You say the letter, word and she points at it.

 

Though another side of this, is her auditory memory?

If you look at any letter, you would be able to recall the sound of it in your mind.

So that using this approach where you say sound, and she points or perhaps prints it.

 

She could develop an auditory memory of the way that you make letter sounds.

So that when recalls letter, phoneme sounds from memory?

Instead of recalling it the way she would say them?

Which could be effected by her speech difficulty?

She could recall it clearly.