Foerster's Pre-cal vs Alg II and trig

[SusanAR]

I know that Foerster suggests using his precal text for trig, but can someone please compare the trig text to the trig portion of the re-cal text. When I ordered my alg and trig book from Veritas Press, they said it was a two year course. I am surprised that they use the older text for trig. It would certainly save $$ since we are already in Ch 3, and alg 2 is only through ch 8!!!

 

Susan

[In The Great White North]

I used an even older Foerster's Alg II/Trig book with my ds. The trig part was the last three chapters.

 

The 2003 Pre-calc books has:

 

1. Functions and Mathematical models

2. Periodic Functions and Right Triangle Problems

3. Applications of Trigonometric and Circular Functions

4. Trigonometric Function Properties, Identities and Parametric Functions

5. Properties of Combined Sinusoids

6. Triangle Trigonometry

7. Properties of Elementary Functions

8. Fitting Functions to Data

9. Probability and Functions of a Random Variable

10. Three Dimensional Vectors

11. Matrix Transformations and Fractal Figures

12. Analytic Geometry of Conic Sections and Quadric Surfaces

13. Polar Coordinates, Complex Numbers and Moving Objects

14. Sequences and Series

15. Polynomial and Rational Functions, Limits and Derivatives

 

Most of this sounds at least vaguely familiar (except limits, derivatives and moving objects) from the Alg II Trig book (which I can't find).

 

I'm not sure why they say Alg II/Trig is a two year book. I had alg II/Trig in one year, followed by calc. That was the normal progression when we were kids and what I had ds do.

 

The pre-calc would be a good preparation for calculus if dc is at all unconfident with his trig and functions. If you did the alg II part in one year, you could do the precalc/trig in a second but the three chapters of trig from the first book would definitely not take a whole year.

 

I was under the impression that Foerster recommended the new precalc book because it incorporated the newer graphing calculators and the older Alg II/trig books did not.

 

Ds just started Foerster's calc book, and it does occasionally say things like "SOLVE," assuming you have the newer calculator. I bought the "Dummies" book for the TI-89 ($1 at a thrift store!) in case he had any problems operating the thing.

 

BTW, abebooks.com is way cheaper.

[Ruth in Canada]

We are currently finishing up the Alg II section of the Alg & Trig book, will then do the Pre-Calc book, and then will (hopefully) move on to calculus.

 

There is a lot of overlap between the Alg II and Trig book and the Pre-Calc book. The trig in the second book appears to be more in depth. The second book covers some of the other material in the alg II book in more depth. If I had a very confident math student and was really pressed for time, I might just go with just the alg II and trig book--but I have a not-very-confident younger student--so any overlap between the books will be good. She'll be more confident and developmentally older if we take our time.

 

When I did high school math, we did alg II and trig in one year and then had another year of "advanced math" before moving on to calculus. I think "advanced math" would now be called "pre-calculus."

[SusanAR]

We are currently finishing up the Alg II section of the Alg & Trig book, will then do the Pre-Calc book, and then will (hopefully) move on to calculus.

 

."

 

 

So.... you will finish chapter 12 and then begin the pre-cal book, or finish chapter 8 and move on?

 

 

Susan

[Ruth in Canada]

Our original plan was to go through chapter 12 and then move on. However--dd has been at this for more than a year (with a detour into Alex for a couple of months to reinforce skills) so the current plan is to go through chapter 10 and move on. Chapters 11 and 12 are repeated in the pre-calc book--although I'll compare both books and use whichever presentation looks better when we come around to those chapters. Material in chapters 9 and 10 is also repeated--but these I'd like her to go through twice to reinforce the material.

 

DD is younger than most covering this material, and is not as confident as she could be. We've decided to slow down and perhaps finish 3 years of math in 4. This will still have her finished with calculus by the end of high school, so I've decided I'd rather have a confident math student than a hurried math student.

[MicheleinMN]

My dd is using the Foerster's Alg. 2/Trig book this year too. Our plan is for her to do through Chapter 12 and then move to the Pre-calc. book next year.

 

HTH,

Michele

[SusanAR]

Our original plan was to go through chapter 12 and then move on. However--dd has been at this for more than a year (with a detour into Alex for a couple of months to reinforce skills) so the current plan is to go through chapter 10 and move on. Chapters 11 and 12 are repeated in the pre-calc book--although I'll compare both books and use whichever presentation looks better when we come around to those chapters. Material in chapters 9 and 10 is also repeated--but these I'd like her to go through twice to reinforce the material.

 

 

 

Thanks, this helps. I wish I had both books to compare! Ds is in 10th grade and I'm trying to map all of this out. I didn't realize that pre-cal takes 1.5 years, so I'm trying to set some goals for this year. So, from your post it seems that if we get through chapter 10 this year, we will be ok. We'll see haw it goes!!

Susan

[SusanAR]

My dd is using the Foerster's Alg. 2/Trig book this year too. Our plan is for her to do through Chapter 12 and then move to the Pre-calc. book next year.

 

HTH,

Michele

 

Michele, what is your schedule like? I'll be pushing it to fit in 10 chapters, but I'm open to suggestions.

Susan

[Ruth in Canada]

That's what dd's will show--but we may take longer to actually do it.

 

Even so--if you get through algebra II and pre-calc by the end of 12th grade, you're doing well. A number of experienced teachers on this board have said that it's much better to solidly understand pre-calculus math than to rush through to calculus with little understanding.

[SusanAR]

That's what dd's will show--but we may take longer to actually do it.

 

Even so--if you get through algebra II and pre-calc by the end of 12th grade, you're doing well. A number of experienced teachers on this board have said that it's much better to solidly understand pre-calculus math than to rush through to calculus with little understanding.

 

:iagree: My problem is that the colleges my son is interested in require 4 math credits, and pre-cal would only give us three :confused:

I'm still trying to work it all out. I'm trying to decipher the state standards for alg II, pre-cal and cal A and see how they fit with Foerster's (which I feel is more than adequate). I still can't figure out how our school fits pre-cal into one semester!

 

Susan

[Moira in MA]

My problem is that the colleges my son is interested in require 4 math credits, and pre-cal would only give us three :confused:

 

What is to stop you using Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II and PreCalc? IMHO Algebra I counts even if it was done in 8th grade.

[SusanAR]

What is to stop you using Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II and PreCalc? IMHO Algebra I counts even if it was done in 8th grade.

 

Because they specifically state 'only classes taken in grades 9-12"

 

Susan

[Ruth in Canada]

Have you asked about this? What would happen if a kid only did pre-calculus and calculus in grades 9 through 12? Would they really consider that kid unqualified because they didn't have 4 years of math? Or would they waive that requirement? Pre-calculus is as far as some kids well-qualified kids will get. Some will get calculus. It seems to me that a university couldn't reasonably expect more.

 

None-the-less: If you do alg II in 10th grade (chapters 1-10 in alg & trig), as much of pre-calc as you can get in in 11th grade, you can at least do an "intro to calculus" class in grade 12. If I were going to cut from the pre-calc book, I'd drop chapter 8 (but reluctantly if the kid hadn't already covered data analysis in a science class), chapter 9 (probability), chapter 14 (series and sequences) and chapter 15 (which gets into the very beginnings of calculus.)

 

If I compare Foerster to the sequence in Aleks, I note that Aleks doesn't cover the following chapters of Foerster: chapter 8 (data fitting), chapter 9 (probability), chapter 11 (matrix transformations and fractal figures), some of chapter 12 (conic sections), chapter 13 (polar coordinates, etc), chapter 14 (sequences and series) and chapter 15 (intro to calculus.) My experience is also that Aleks is a lot easier than Foerster. So--you could do one year of "pre-calc" and at least a semester of something with another name (but still from the Foester book), then a semester of "intro to calculus".

[Matryoshka]

Because they specifically state 'only classes taken in grades 9-12"

 

 

Couldn't you have him take a year/semester of statistics, probability or number theory? Or even consumer math? It says 4 years of math - it doesn't have to be a straight-line progression.

 

In my high school, the kids who took Alg in 8th grade were offered a year of Trig/Analytic Geometry between AlgII/Trig and Calc - those who took Alg in 9th could go straight into Calc. I ended up taking Probability in that gap year because the Trig/AG class conflicted with a Creative Writing class I also wanted to take.

 

Art of Problem Solving has a course in Number Theory and two levels of Probability, and LOF has Statistics.

[MicheleinMN]

Sorry I didn't answer sooner...I didn't make it back to this thread right away.

 

As for getting through chapter 12 of Foerster's Alg. 2, I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to schedule it. For now, dd is working through chapter 1, and I'll have to see how much we can cover in the next few months. I had hoped to find a syllabus that was already done, but the ones I've found either only cover to chapter 8 or they do all of the book including Trig., so I'm stuck trying to schedule it out on my own for now.

 

Sorry I'm not more help.

 

Michele

[SusanAR]

Have you asked about this? What would happen if a kid only did pre-calculus and calculus in grades 9 through 12? Would they really consider that kid unqualified because they didn't have 4 years of math? Or would they waive that requirement? Pre-calculus is as far as some kids well-qualified kids will get. Some will get calculus. It seems to me that a university couldn't reasonably expect more.

 

None-the-less: If you do alg II in 10th grade (chapters 1-10 in alg & trig), as much of pre-calc as you can get in in 11th grade, you can at least do an "intro to calculus" class in grade 12. If I were going to cut from the pre-calc book, I'd drop chapter 8 (but reluctantly if the kid hadn't already covered data analysis in a science class), chapter 9 (probability), chapter 14 (series and sequences) and chapter 15 (which gets into the very beginnings of calculus.)

 

If I compare Foerster to the sequence in Aleks, I note that Aleks doesn't cover the following chapters of Foerster: chapter 8 (data fitting), chapter 9 (probability), chapter 11 (matrix transformations and fractal figures), some of chapter 12 (conic sections), chapter 13 (polar coordinates, etc), chapter 14 (sequences and series) and chapter 15 (intro to calculus.) My experience is also that Aleks is a lot easier than Foerster. So--you could do one year of "pre-calc" and at least a semester of something with another name (but still from the Foester book), then a semester of "intro to calculus".

 

Thanks, Ruth.It helps to hear from someone who is more 'mathy' than I!! I also appreciate the comparison to ALEKS.!

 

Susan

[SusanAR]

Thanks, ladies:001_smile: I appreciate your help. I think that we can get through chapter 10 this year. He is progressing faster than I had scheduled though I realize things will get tougher. I am pleased with how much he remembers from Foerster alg I, and I'm glad we took the time to cover it throughly- which is why I don't want to skimp now just for the sake of a transcript!

Susan