mindygz Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I am considering switching my 4th grader from MUS to CLE Math. He is in Chapter 19 out of 30 in MUS Delta. He has struggled mastering division, but it seems to be clicking. I am contemplating switching him now, which of course seems almost silly for timing, but as it is I figure we will be continuing math through the summer, so maybe it makes sense? Or maybe it is best to finish Delta and make the change for 5th grade? Presently for his Language Arts we are doing Essentials in Writing Level 3 and working through Logic of English Essentials. I've not really heard much about CLE LA, but it looks pretty straightforward painless from the samples. I'd love to hear experiences/opinions of their LA, also what all it includes and what might need to be supplemented, if anything. Thank you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Can't help much with LA but we do use CLE Math. I would give the placement test off the website before switching. Is there a particular reason you want to switch? I love CLE but MUS isn't a bad program. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I know you've been mulling this over for a while. Why not order a couple of LU dater doing the placement test and see what you think? For math, start with -02, -01 is a refresher book and is set up differently. More later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 On math, I my not be the best person to ask. We switched from MUS after Beta, we were running behind because I'd stopped to reteach things (multiple times) that kept being forgotten due to not enough ongoing review. We made a brief layover with MM, total fail for us, pages are TOO crammed, and landed with CLE. It was the beginning of DD's 4th grade and we placed into the 200s. Do use the placement tests, you will likely place farther ahead than we did, but be aware that CLE's scope and sequence is very different than CLE's. Before starting CLE she was crying about her perceived lack of ability to do math. CLE was, and remains, a total win for us. My children retail what they learn due to the spiral review. They also have a better understanding of their facts due to scheduled flash cards and speed drills. As a wonderful bonus, it's also largely independent. Her math confidence has strengthened considerably. Her younger siblings switched early enough that they've never experienced ongoing feelings of math failure. This fall will be our fourth year with CLE. All that being said, if MUS really works for you, leave things be. Apparently it does work well for many families, just not mine, we still use some teaching tools we learned with MUS, but no longer use 'the program' . If it doesn't work for you, switch as soon as possible once you make the choice to do so. As I mentioned, the scope and sequence is SO different. You'll want all the time you can get to cover ground with the new course of study. More on LA later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindygz Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Thank you both for the math feedback. Very good info and helpful. His particular child is my toughest one to work with, so perhaps I am somehow hoping there is a silver bullet when there really can't be. I hadn't seen the placement test, though, so I'm glad to know that's available if we decide to make the switch. As I think about it today, I realize that one very good thing about MUS for him is having the blocks as a resource. He is a builder but also someone who gets "stuck" mentally/emotionally and then shuts down, and I have seen the blocks get him unstuck on a number of occasions. Looking forward to reading your thoughts and experiences with the LA, Jennifer. Thanks for taking the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 If you think the blocks are helping but he is struggling with the program, perhaps he needs more spiral than mastery? We tried MUS here, too. It is a good program but both of my kids needed more spiral. We tried a lot of math programs before someone on the boards recommended CLE. It has been a game changer, here. I agree, give the placement test, then just get a couple of light units (cheap to buy) and see if it is a better fit. Maybe even take a break from MUS for the first part of the summer and just do CLE. See how it goes. And you can still use the blocks to explain things. Let him keep the blocks around to play with and figure things out. Also, if he places a level or two below where you would anticipate him being don't stress about that. There is so much review in CLE that it is fairly easy to just cross out some review problems in areas that have been mastered and compress lessons. You can also skip the quizzes. The light units are written to the student so it is much easier for the student to gain some independence. Honestly, I love CLE. Really love it. You might just give it a whirl. I would highly recommend getting the math reference chart, though. It can be used for any math program. Super helpful. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Test for levels 100-400 are linked below. I would start with Level 100. Go all the way back to the first of the test and just let him move forward. DD, who hates math, made it through the entire test in a day or so. DS took longer. Go at the pace of your child. Stop when they reach a level they cannot pass. If he makes it through Level 400, go back to the site and download the next set (500-800). Download the test onto your computer and print it out. Or you can order a printed copy for $2. https://www.clp.org/product/math_100_400_diagnostic_test_1658 Teacher's guide with answers for 100-400 placement test. https://www.clp.org/product/math_100_400_diagnostic_teachers_guide_1662 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Language arts. We came to CLE LA in 4th after using a hodgepodge of other things with my oldest. She did the placement test and was able to jump in at grade level. We've used 400-600s with her (600s in progress), and 100s-200s with younger siblings. CLE LA includes penmanship, spelling, writing, and grammar. All of this is much more phonetically integrated in the lower grades. Penmanship in 4th and up takes place on separate paper and is often tied to copywork, spelling lists, or topical lists. At the risk of repeating myself, see this post for my take on the spelling: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/549562-choosing-a-spelling-program-isis-not-for-you-if/ We use Rod and Staff for spelling. There is another poster there who does an overview of LOE Essentials as well. They are very different programs and it depends on your goals. LOE is more parent intensive but builds the phonics foundation from scratch. CLE is more independent, but is finished with it's phonics foundation by 4th. That was covered incrementally in 1st and 2nd mainly. The grammar is excellent, includes diagramming, very rigorous. The writing in 4th and up is expository, creative writing is more of an optional add on that many moms don't get to. It has been fine for us, in 7th I hope to add some more writing across the curriculum. CLE does seem to be integrating more creative writing in the 2nd edition LA - they are working on 4th grade next, it won't be out for this fall. Let me know if you have any specific questions? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I was just flipping through my new CLE LA 300 TM that arrived today and I was reminded of a few other things. It also includes usage, punctuation, editing, homophones, how to use reference materials, how to study, and all sorts of odds and ends that are useful. I once used SO many resources to try to cover my LA bases. Now I just get CLE and know that it will be covered. What a huge relief. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruthie in MS Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 It was the beginning of DD's 4th grade and we placed into the 200s. Do use the placement tests, you will likely place farther ahead than we did, but be aware that CLE's scope and sequence is very different than CLE's. Before starting CLE she was crying about her perceived lack of ability to do math. CLE was, and remains, a total win for us. My children retail what they learn due to the spiral review. They also have a better understanding of their facts due to scheduled flash cards and speed drills. As a wonderful bonus, it's also largely independent. Her math confidence has strengthened considerably. Her younger siblings switched early enough that they've never experienced ongoing feelings of math failure. We have had the same experience! We switched from A Beka :thumbdown: and my DD was in the middle of 3rd grade arithmetic with A Beka, but looking over the scope and sequence of CLE she was not able to even begin the 3rd grade workbooks because there were topics that A Beka didn't even cover until the end of 3rd grade, but CLE was introducing in 1st-2nd grade. I bought the 1st and 2nd grade math teacher's manual (used on homeschool classifieds and besides I have younger children that I wanted to begin the program) and went over concepts. When I felt sure she was ready, I made her take the placement test. She was ready and we have used the program ever since. It's true we are still in the 400s and she is 10 but I believe in some respects that the program is a little more advanced (grade-wise). I have contemplated on using CLE La but it looks to rigorous for us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I was just flipping through my new CLE LA 300 TM that arrived today and I was reminded of a few other things. It also includes usage, punctuation, editing, homophones, how to use reference materials, how to study, and all sorts of odds and ends that are useful. I once used SO many resources to try to cover my LA bases. Now I just get CLE and know that it will be covered. What a huge relief.Do you use anything else for writing instruction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 I was just flipping through my new CLE LA 300 TM that arrived today and I was reminded of a few other things. It also includes usage, punctuation, editing, homophones, how to use reference materials, how to study, and all sorts of odds and ends that are useful. I once used SO many resources to try to cover my LA bases. Now I just get CLE and know that it will be covered. What a huge relief. We had our big, CLE box day this week and LA 3 was in there. It looks so awesome!! So glad to know all bases are covered, hassle-free! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 We had our big, CLE box day this week and LA 3 was in there. It looks so awesome!! So glad to know all bases are covered, hassle-free! Yay!! I had CLE Box Day this week as well! I think I'm in love with LA 300s! Actually, today I was SO appreciating that CLE is teaching 2nd DD calendar skills in both LA and math - spelling says if the week and months in LA, learning calendar skills and how many days in the months in math. Because...I really suck at teaching calendar skills consistently. I don't like it either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 Do you use anything else for writing instruction? For the 300s? I won't. CLE covers expository writing of all kinds at different levels - book reports, various types of letters, research reports, outlines, and eventually hits essays (we aren't there yet). The younger grades also include creative writing. I still wouldn't say it's writing-centric, but it's solid. There aren't a lot of writing projects assigned each year I. Terms of quantity/volume in the older grades (4th and up), so I am hoping to get my oldest to add some additional writing in her content subjects this coming year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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