Need input on interest led, project based science for upper elementary

[JRmommy]

I'm thinking about science for my almost 9 year old, and I just need some input for those that have already gone down this path. A little background - Prior to this year, we didn't do anything formal. We just enjoyed books, took informal nature walks and hikes, visited museums, science centers and nature museums, etc. This year we tried a formal curriculum, and it just wasn't a good fit, so we dropped it and continued doing what we've always done. Science is his favorite subject by far! He devours science books. I believe he's ready to go deeper, but I'm not exactly sure how to go about it. I'd love to work on a long term project with him and get him acquainted with the scientific method, but I honestly don't know where to begin. Any advice?

 

ETA - If there are any other threads that would give me some ideas, please link them. Thank you!

[idnib]

lewelma's posts on science investigations are the best place to begin. Check out her posts or Google her name along with "scientific investigations." Or PM her and she may be able to come to this thread and help.

[JRmommy]

Has anyone actually incorporated any of lewelma's ideas?! I think what she does with her children is phenomenal, but I'm wondering who else has actually done what she recommends and how they went about doing it. She should write a book! :)

[Tsutsie]

I agree. I also think there should be a special section containing just her posts. Like K-8, High School, Iewelma, Chat, etc.

[idnib]

This is a post where she started gathering her posts into one place.

 

The links under individualized plans are where she's helped others. There are more but that's all she's linked to from this list so far.

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

I haven't used these yet, but they get great reviews, and I am considering them for next year. Delta education has Science in a Nutshell kits you can get with 8-12 lessons and experiments in each kit investigating one topic. It would give you more depth, but allow you to change gears. You can put three or four kits together for a year. I am looking to revisit them soon. My son did FOSS science in school from Delta, which is not really available to homeschoolers, but they are the same company that does Science in a Nutshell. The FOSS science was very impressive and really focused on kids doing science and investigating vs. just reading about things. They give ideas on further reading resources too.

 

I also hear good things about TOPS kits, but I am totally unfamiliar.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I highly recommend Nurturing Inquiry. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0325001359?ie=UTF8&force-full-site=1&ref_=navm_ftr_fullsite

 

It was written for school teachers but has been my main science inspiration for years.

[lewelma]

I'd love to work on a long term project with him and get him acquainted with the scientific method, but I honestly don't know where to begin. Any advice?

 

 

 

As idnib pointed out, I have done lots of long term projects with my kids.  Sounds like you have read my write ups for some of the projects that we have done, and perhaps have been a bit :blink: .  I would suggest that you go back and read the posts that only have to do with my younger boy, because his projects were very straightforward (as he was younger).  In hindsight, I should have split up the thread into two, one focusing on each project because a number of people have been put off by the complexity of my older boy's projects and lost sight of how simple the younger one's have been. I have written in depth on the soil depth project my younger did at age 8 and the paint alchemy project at age 9. (Can link you to these if you need)

 

On a recent thread, I wrote these brief descriptions of our elementary school projects (age 5 to 10).  They might give you a some things to think about, and demystify what little kid projects look like.   You can definitely start with an observational project and then move on to a basic compare-two-things project.  You don't have to start with something complex.

 

x-post #1

 

I've done investigations with my kids starting at age 5.  They don't need falsifiable parameters. :001_smile:   What I have done is organise simple observation around a question.  So the investigations we have done with my kids in primary school include:

 

1) What is the most common mushroom in my woods?  We got a 'data collection notebook' (kids always love that), and an identification guide.  Then we got a map of the woods and marked off where we had been.  We had a few interesting problems to figure out.  1) what happens when there are like 1000 mushrooms on a log, how do you count them?  We discussed how to estimate by counting only a fraction of the entire group and then multiplying up.  2) DS  had to decide what 'most common' meant because one mushroom had more individuals but another was more widely spread.  Definitions always trip kids up.

 

2) Can I predict rain from looking at the clouds?  This is also a great question but just using observation.  DS learned how to identify clouds from a bunch of books and then learned how they come in in sequence before a storm.  He practiced for a few days, and then set himself a ten day challenge. He recorded not just his prediction, but then after it was written down, he recorded the weather service's predication.  The following day he recorded if it rained or not.  The problems he had were 1) what actually counts as rain?  If it just spits, does that count?  2) how far ahead is a reasonable time frame, are we talking 24 hours exactly, the next day in general?  what?  These are actually definition issues.  And I think it is very good for kids to realize that they need to be very precise.  He actually beat MetServices 9 to 8 days accurate.

 

3)  How much insect diversity do I have in my garden?  In this project, we hunted for bugs! :001_smile:   We took photos, and sorted them by classification.  The difficulties we ran into was 1) how do you actually catch bugs?  We had to look up a bunch of ideas like shaking a tree over a sheet, making pit fall traps, digging in soil.  2) How do you know you got them all?  We had to try to think up all of the different possible environments.  In the end, we made a huge poster and used string to connect all the different related species together.  Very fun.

 

My point is that doing a single investigation each year allows kids to understand that they can actually answer their own questions.  It allows them to the chance to observe and explore with a purpose.  It helps them to understand how science is actually done, rather than doing goofy little demos or non-working experiments.  My kids remember these projects all the way back.  Over time they got more involved, but the early ones were just fun and straightforward. And very educational.

 

x-post #2

 

Yes, I did investigations in chemistry and physics with my primary children.  I just though you only wanted to see what could be done with the little ones. 

 

In third grade for chemistry, my older wanted to know how to make the best silly putty.  So we went on the internet and got a basic recipe.  It requires only 3 ingredients: glue, borax, and corn starch.  So over the period of a few weeks, he made up lots of different batches with different quantities of the ingredients, or different glues, I think he even left out the corn starch once.  He recorded what he put in each and then color coded them with food dye.  He tested them for how high they could bounce and how stretchy they were.  And then had lots of fun analyzing and graphing the results.  This is by far the best real chemistry investigation I have ever run across.  And because there are 3 variables, the interactions can be quite complex if you want to study them. 

 

My younger, wanted to figure out how to make natural paint, so he studied what are the strongest binders and how to find all the different colours from nature.  He looked at milk, egg, and casein for binders, and both dyes and pigments from organic and inorganic sources for the colours.  I wrote up a very detailed description of what we did and all our struggles in this thread.

 

For physics, my younger wanted to know how to make a bow out of bamboo that would shoot arrows the furthest.  He did this project with a neighbourhood friend. They had been making bows all year, when we decided to actually test which one was the best.  They evaluated both length and diameter, and later found out that flexibility was also important.  They were able to design a methodology to allow for consistent shooting between bows.  They used a spring scale to stabilize the force and a very large protractor to keep the angle consistent.

 

For physics, my older in 4th grade wanted to study the aerodynamics of kites.  So he made his own kite and then once it was flying, he altered the bridal angle and some other variable I can't remember and watched how it affected the flight.  I ran across this description that I wrote up a few years ago. 

 

x-post: My son did a science fair project on kites and the aerodynamics of flight at age 10. I am not a physicist and I will tell you I did not have a clue. But, ok I will give it a go. 4 weeks later, we still did not have a flying kite, the science fair was in 6 weeks, and we had not even started the experimental part of altering different parts of the bridal and flight height etc. What was wrong? We tried everything it seemed - changing the materials of the kite, changing the way we launched it, changing what wind speed we flew it at, every single thing we could think of. And of course the kite kept breaking when it would crash instead of fly. So we had to reconstruct it over and over and over. And I kept saying the the Wright brothers took 4 years of long hard work and their own money to get an airplane to fly (my son had just done a report on them, which sparked his interest in this project). The lessons every day seemed to be about persistence. Edison tried 2000 different filaments before he got a working light bulb. Persistence. And I kept thinking, how are we going to get this done in time? Then, we just happened to run across the issue of the wind shadow. The height of a tree will disrupt the air flow across a field for 10 times the height of the tree. The field we were using was HUGE, but long in the wrong direction for the regular wind direction so that all of it was in a wind shadow. The kite would not fly because the wind was turbulent. We changed fields. The kite flew. WOW! What a lesson to a budding scientist. I don't think he will ever forget it.

 

--------

 

I'm happy to help you find a good project for you ds.  What is he interested in?  Typically, we find an interest and then do some 'walking around.'  We go to the study site (ocean, road, woods, etc) and observe as much as we can.  Or if the interest is in something concrete (silly putty, kites, bows) we make a few and play around with them.  Once you observe/play, you typically have a few questions. The questions then lead you to a project. 

 

Happy to help.  We are on school holidays for the next 2 weeks so I have t.i.m.e!!

 

Ruth in NZ

[JRmommy]

As idnib pointed out, I have done lots of long term projects with my kids.  Sounds like you have read my write ups for some of the projects that we have done, and perhaps have been a bit :blink: .  I would suggest that you go back and read the posts that only have to do with my younger boy, because his projects were very straightforward (as he was younger).  In hindsight, I should have split up the thread into two, one focusing on each project because a number of people have been put off by the complexity of my older boy's projects and lost sight of how simple the younger one's have been. I have written in depth on the soil depth project my younger did at age 8 and the paint alchemy project at age 9. (Can link you to these if you need)

 

On a recent thread, I wrote these brief descriptions of our elementary school projects (age 5 to 10).  They might give you a some things to think about, and demystify what little kid projects look like.   You can definitely start with an observational project and then move on to a basic compare-two-things project.  You don't have to start with something complex.

 

x-post #1

 

I've done investigations with my kids starting at age 5.  They don't need falsifiable parameters. :001_smile:   What I have done is organise simple observation around a question.  So the investigations we have done with my kids in primary school include:

 

1) What is the most common mushroom in my woods?  We got a 'data collection notebook' (kids always love that), and an identification guide.  Then we got a map of the woods and marked off where we had been.  We had a few interesting problems to figure out.  1) what happens when there are like 1000 mushrooms on a log, how do you count them?  We discussed how to estimate by counting only a fraction of the entire group and then multiplying up.  2) DS  had to decide what 'most common' meant because one mushroom had more individuals but another was more widely spread.  Definitions always trip kids up.

 

2) Can I predict rain from looking at the clouds?  This is also a great question but just using observation.  DS learned how to identify clouds from a bunch of books and then learned how they come in in sequence before a storm.  He practiced for a few days, and then set himself a ten day challenge. He recorded not just his prediction, but then after it was written down, he recorded the weather service's predication.  The following day he recorded if it rained or not.  The problems he had were 1) what actually counts as rain?  If it just spits, does that count?  2) how far ahead is a reasonable time frame, are we talking 24 hours exactly, the next day in general?  what?  These are actually definition issues.  And I think it is very good for kids to realize that they need to be very precise.  He actually beat MetServices 9 to 8 days accurate.

 

3)  How much insect diversity do I have in my garden?  In this project, we hunted for bugs! :001_smile:   We took photos, and sorted them by classification.  The difficulties we ran into was 1) how do you actually catch bugs?  We had to look up a bunch of ideas like shaking a tree over a sheet, making pit fall traps, digging in soil.  2) How do you know you got them all?  We had to try to think up all of the different possible environments.  In the end, we made a huge poster and used string to connect all the different related species together.  Very fun.

 

My point is that doing a single investigation each year allows kids to understand that they can actually answer their own questions.  It allows them to the chance to observe and explore with a purpose.  It helps them to understand how science is actually done, rather than doing goofy little demos or non-working experiments.  My kids remember these projects all the way back.  Over time they got more involved, but the early ones were just fun and straightforward. And very educational.

 

x-post #2

 

Yes, I did investigations in chemistry and physics with my primary children.  I just though you only wanted to see what could be done with the little ones. 

 

In third grade for chemistry, my older wanted to know how to make the best silly putty.  So we went on the internet and got a basic recipe.  It requires only 3 ingredients: glue, borax, and corn starch.  So over the period of a few weeks, he made up lots of different batches with different quantities of the ingredients, or different glues, I think he even left out the corn starch once.  He recorded what he put in each and then color coded them with food dye.  He tested them for how high they could bounce and how stretchy they were.  And then had lots of fun analyzing and graphing the results.  This is by far the best real chemistry investigation I have ever run across.  And because there are 3 variables, the interactions can be quite complex if you want to study them. 

 

My younger, wanted to figure out how to make natural paint, so he studied what are the strongest binders and how to find all the different colours from nature.  He looked at milk, egg, and casein for binders, and both dyes and pigments from organic and inorganic sources for the colours.  I wrote up a very detailed description of what we did and all our struggles in this thread.

 

For physics, my younger wanted to know how to make a bow out of bamboo that would shoot arrows the furthest.  He did this project with a neighbourhood friend. They had been making bows all year, when we decided to actually test which one was the best.  They evaluated both length and diameter, and later found out that flexibility was also important.  They were able to design a methodology to allow for consistent shooting between bows.  They used a spring scale to stabilize the force and a very large protractor to keep the angle consistent.

 

For physics, my older in 4th grade wanted to study the aerodynamics of kites.  So he made his own kite and then once it was flying, he altered the bridal angle and some other variable I can't remember and watched how it affected the flight.  I ran across this description that I wrote up a few years ago. 

 

x-post: My son did a science fair project on kites and the aerodynamics of flight at age 10. I am not a physicist and I will tell you I did not have a clue. But, ok I will give it a go. 4 weeks later, we still did not have a flying kite, the science fair was in 6 weeks, and we had not even started the experimental part of altering different parts of the bridal and flight height etc. What was wrong? We tried everything it seemed - changing the materials of the kite, changing the way we launched it, changing what wind speed we flew it at, every single thing we could think of. And of course the kite kept breaking when it would crash instead of fly. So we had to reconstruct it over and over and over. And I kept saying the the Wright brothers took 4 years of long hard work and their own money to get an airplane to fly (my son had just done a report on them, which sparked his interest in this project). The lessons every day seemed to be about persistence. Edison tried 2000 different filaments before he got a working light bulb. Persistence. And I kept thinking, how are we going to get this done in time? Then, we just happened to run across the issue of the wind shadow. The height of a tree will disrupt the air flow across a field for 10 times the height of the tree. The field we were using was HUGE, but long in the wrong direction for the regular wind direction so that all of it was in a wind shadow. The kite would not fly because the wind was turbulent. We changed fields. The kite flew. WOW! What a lesson to a budding scientist. I don't think he will ever forget it.

 

--------

 

I'm happy to help you find a good project for you ds.  What is he interested in?  Typically, we find an interest and then do some 'walking around.'  We go to the study site (ocean, road, woods, etc) and observe as much as we can.  Or if the interest is in something concrete (silly putty, kites, bows) we make a few and play around with them.  Once you observe/play, you typically have a few questions. The questions then lead you to a project. 

 

Happy to help.  We are on school holidays for the next 2 weeks so I have t.i.m.e!!

 

Ruth in NZ

 

I'd love your help!  I tried to respond a couple of days ago, but the website must have been down.  I spoke with my son to try to get some ideas from him.  He says he is interested in everything related to science.  In other words, not a very helpful conversation.  He did mention trees and birds.  However, he always defaults to nature and animals.  I'd love to stretch him just a bit.  Perhaps, we could start off with an observation project to get our feet wet.  Then do one that is more elaborate.  One of the things that you mentioned in the kite project is persistence, and that is something that I'm trying to encourage.  He tends to give up easier than I would like.  He knows a little about all the areas of science, but it is definitely time to dig deeper.  Please ask me more questions so that I can give you enough information so that you can help us.  I really appreciate your time!