Sweet Home Alabama Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 My senior (next year) is not looking forward to taking economics. She will have to take an intro micro/macro course in college, so the high school course needs to be decent. She'll have a challenging senior course line-up, so I don't want economics to be unnecessarily difficult or lengthy. (I'd love for her to even ENJOY it! :) ) I would like help weeding out some of the choices from below. The course we choose needs to be on the side of get 'er done. That sounds so shallow and I don't mean it to be. She probably won't have time for projects or lengthy analysis. Something to read/watch and a workbook to fill out and occasional quizzes is what we're looking for. Dd's first choice would probably be using the Dummies or Idiot's books. My first choice would be Economics in a Box (but, yikes! The price is insane). I am open to choosing a combination of the options below and kind of winging it. The following courses are the ones I tend to gravitate toward. There are pros and cons to each of course: Economics in a Box It is so expensive at $200! But it is all-inclusive and seems to be quite popular. How much time is required/day to do this? Is it really WORTH this price? TTC Economics This is one of my favorite options, but the course is not up-to-date. Is this a problem? I would also need to catch it on sale or it's a no-go. Exploring Economics by Notgrass Easy to use, but it's a textbook- ugh. Might be ok with supplements. Economics for Dummies or The Idiot's Guide to Economics Get 'er done but is this enough? Possible supplements: Economics in One Lesson Stossel videos Penny Candy maybe with the Bluestocking Guide Walch Basics: Economics If we tried to put something together on our own, it might look like this: TTC Economics with Walch Economics and Stossel videos. Or maybe Notgrass with Penny Candy and the Bluestocking Guide. Or, the Dummies/Idiot book with Economics in One Lesson. Believe me, I think I've read ALL the economics threads about 3x each. I'm just about going in circles trying to decide what to use for this half-credit. Can you all help me narrow my list? Please? :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Sonlight also has an Economics course using Thinkwell. Just thought I'd add another one to your list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 If we tried to put something together on our own, it might look like this: TTC Economics with Walch Economics and Stossel videos. That sounds like a fine option. :) Or the Dummies/Idiot book with Stossel videos. Either way, it's a text that covers all your info, plus videos for added interest. Other random thoughts about the other materials: - Notgrass = probably the most time consuming with reading/assignments time; if your student has used and enjoyed other of the Notgrass programs, probably this one would connect, too; if not into the topic, then the longer time to accomplish this one, plus no videos to liven it up, is a minus - TC = about as abbreviated as it will get: 18 hours of lectures (36 30-minute lectures), plus allow for 10-15 min each for rewinding/replaying and discussion, so I'd guess a total of 27 hours; a bit dry, but covers everything needed for micro/macro that you will see in college, and in a similar way in which you'll see it in college; yes, the examples are older (I think it was done in 2005-6?), so none of the realities of the economy going bust are in it, although since it's covering general principles and terms, that's not as big of a problem as you might think; we bought ours used from Amazon for about $35ppd, but also check around on this board, Homeschool Classifieds, etc. for a possible used one; we fleshed it out with the Penny Candy book and with the a Personal Finance unit, but you certainly don't have to, as the TC adequately covers all the topics you need - Penny Candy = supplement from a very specific POV; not necessary, but it does explain a few terms in very simplify ways that are clear; can be knocked out in about 2-4 hours of solo reading/discussion That's all I can help you with as far as input. Good luck as you decide! :) Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I am an economics/finance professor. I would not worry about dd needing the background for micro and macro economics at college. Those courses will start at the beginning. Do you have a state requirement that you must do economics? Most high school economics requirements are 1 semester (only 1/2 a year). Many focus on "free enterprise" education rather than really on the principles of economics. I have also seen some spend a lot of time on the stock market and other finance related topics (which wouldn't be a true economics course). One of the local high school teachers I know likes to teach economics because she likes teaching students "balancing a checkbook"--I don't consider that economics. The point is that most college profs have to assume that the "economics" background students have is varied and they will start at the beginning. If she has a heavy load and isn't really interested in economics, I would have her watch the TTC videos. They are a bit dated, but the principles are the same and they present basic economics principles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thanks, ladies! Our homeschool cover school requires us to cover economics. It seems like a personal finance course would be more practical. It's nice to hear TTC videos are still relevant to use even though they're not current. I think adding Stossel and Walsh workbook would help make the course more enjoyable/understandable. Also, since this is a semester class, I will probably have her do personal finance 2nd semester...thinking about a Dave Ramsey course. I would really like to hear about Economics in a Box. I hate the expense, yet I love the variety of books/videos. Can someone tell me if it's worth $200? Also, how much time/day is reasonable to expect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Bumping 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 http://www.councilforeconed.org/resource/econedlink/ This is a free online resource to look into if you are looking for something more interactive exercises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Jdahlquist, thank for the link! I'll take a look at it. We have satellite internet with limited gigabytes, so we have to be careful when we use anything online. Streaming is a monster eating a lot of our gigs. We loved cable Internet when we had it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thanks, ladies! Our homeschool cover school requires us to cover economics. It seems like a personal finance course would be more practical. It's nice to hear TTC videos are still relevant to use even though they're not current. I think adding Stossel and Walsh workbook would help make the course more enjoyable/understandable. Also, since this is a semester class, I will probably have her do personal finance 2nd semester...thinking about a Dave Ramsey course. You could probably do both -- either the Stossel & Walsh, or the TTC, AND the personal finance, in one semester. Most personal finance units are only 6-12 units long, and usually take 1-2 hours per unit, depending on what you use. Dave Ramsey is 12 hours of DVD segments, in 5-15min. lengths. We spent another 5 min. or so discussing after watching a segment. We spent about an hour a week for 15 weeks on it, so about a total of no more than 15 hours for Dave Ramsey, in case you are wanting a rough idea of what to budget for time. The downer is that the Dave Ramsey has also not been updated. I think it was done in 2008, *just* before the economic downturn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clementine Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 We use Notgrass. Yes, it's a textbook, but really is nowhere near a typical text. In depth questions/labs help make it more interesting & meaningful. Econ is in our first semester & Government is in our second semester. It's relatively inexpensive and we could pick and choose which labs/projects she should do - making it a bit less time-consuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 You could probably do both -- either the Stossel & Walsh, or the TTC, AND the personal finance, in one semester. Most personal finance units are only 6-12 units long, and usually take 1-2 hours per unit, depending on what you use. Dave Ramsey is 12 hours of DVD segments, in 5-15min. lengths. We spent another 5 min. or so discussing after watching a segment. We spent about an hour a week for 15 weeks on it, so about a total of no more than 15 hours for Dave Ramsey, in case you are wanting a rough idea of what to budget for time. The downer is that the Dave Ramsey has also not been updated. I think it was done in 2008, *just* before the economic downturn. (See bolded above) Lori, I found Dave Ramsey's Foundation course at CBD. They have a new edition for 2014: http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find?nav_search=1&Nf=product.has_image|GT+0&N=4294950803+5401+1014667&Ne=1000000&Nso=1&Nu=product.endeca_rollup&Ns=product.number_sold&event=Personal-Finance|| I haven't made any decisions, but this is what I have i mind, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I found Dave Ramsey's Foundation course at CBD. They have a new edition for 2014: Yea! Thanks for linking that. Hope that means real and meaningful revisions to address the big shift in our country's economy that looks like it is now the "new reality"! :) BEST of luck in sorting out your Econ and Per. Finance for next year. Warmest regards, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I am an economics/finance professor. I would not worry about dd needing the background for micro and macro economics at college. Those courses will start at the beginning. Do you have a state requirement that you must do economics? Most high school economics requirements are 1 semester (only 1/2 a year). Many focus on "free enterprise" education rather than really on the principles of economics. I have also seen some spend a lot of time on the stock market and other finance related topics (which wouldn't be a true economics course). One of the local high school teachers I know likes to teach economics because she likes teaching students "balancing a checkbook"--I don't consider that economics. The point is that most college profs have to assume that the "economics" background students have is varied and they will start at the beginning. If she has a heavy load and isn't really interested in economics, I would have her watch the TTC videos. They are a bit dated, but the principles are the same and they present basic economics principles. My ds is currently using the McConnell/Brue Economics text for AP Microeconomics. I feel like the text is relatively accessible and even if my student weren't doing AP, I would probably still consider using it. We also like the Student Activities book from the Council for Economic Education. They offer real world examples and help complete connections. Would this be overkill for what the OP is looking for? She could add in the TTC lectures, which my ds used last semester and found helpful. I am just wondering out loud because my experience with my older kids has been that sometimes a good introductory college text is better than a mediocre high school text for a high school student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Clementine and Kinsa, Dd looked at Notgrass today and seemed to like it. Totally blew me away. I REALLY thought she would dislike this. This will move to the front of our list of possibilities. I'm sure it's enough on its own, but is there anything to add to it to make it more interesting/fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 If I were using a textbook, I would use a standard college textbook before I used Notgrass. I was not familiar with its content, but I just looked at it and immediately found several errors. For example, p 129, shortage and surplus are not identified correctly on the graph; p 143, what is marked as an increase in supply is actually a DECREASE in supply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrekts Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Agreeing with poster above who recommended the Council on Economic Ed AP Micro/Macro Student workbooks. I also like the Krugman AP textbooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 My ds is currently using the McConnell/Brue Economics text for AP Microeconomics. I feel like the text is relatively accessible and even if my student weren't doing AP, I would probably still consider using it. We also like the Student Activities book from the Council for Economic Education. They offer real world examples and help complete connections. Would this be overkill for what the OP is looking for? She could add in the TTC lectures, which my ds used last semester and found helpful. I am just wondering out loud because my experience with my older kids has been that sometimes a good introductory college text is better than a mediocre high school text for a high school student. Swimmermom, Would you please provide links to the books you are suggesting? That would be the McConnell/Brue text and the Student Activities book from the CEE. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Agreeing with poster above who recommended the Council on Economic Ed AP Micro/Macro Student workbooks. I also like the Krugman AP textbooks. (I wish I knew how to MultiQuote!) Madrekts, Same thing... would you provide links? I think the workbook may be the same as Swimmermom's. Also please link the Krugman book. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clementine Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Clementine and Kinsa, Dd looked at Notgrass today and seemed to like it. Totally blew me away. I REALLY thought she would dislike this. This will move to the front of our list of possibilities. I'm sure it's enough on its own, but is there anything to add to it to make it more interesting/fun? The reading in the book, plus the companion book and activities are really all you need. Each daily lesson should take from 30-60 minutes (not including projects/labs), so in my opinion that is enough for a semester 1/2 credit class. It stands on its own very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Thank, Clementine. Now I'm trying to work through the concern that Jdahlquist brought up....errors. Part of me can't help but think that any book can contain errors, but I do want to take to heart what she found. Anyone want to speak to this? Is a high school curriculum more likely to have errors? Could Notgrass overall be ok or is it really full of errors? Is a college level text more likely to be more accurate? I like curricula that plan out the course. I want that kind of help both for me and my dd. Notgrass has this kind of organization. If it is full of errors, however, that surely takes away from the allure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Anyone want to speak to this? Is a high school curriculum more likely to have errors? Could Notgrass overall be ok or is it really full of errors? Is a college level text more likely to be more accurate? I like curricula that plan out the course. I want that kind of help both for me and my dd. Notgrass has this kind of organization. If it is full of errors, however, that surely takes away from the allure. I cannot speak to high school books containing errors in general, but if you go with a standard college textbook like McConnell that has had multiple editions, the basic economics will be correct. My concern looking at the Notgrass book was that economic terms were used incorrectly, etc. not that there were typos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I don't think it is so much about being a high school or a college level textbook that leads to errors. Any of the books published by a major college textbook publisher (and probably high school also) go through a vetting process. The publisher will have PhDs across the country review the book for content. If many colleges are using a textbook edition after edition, it means the material is consistent with mainstream discipline thinking. If someone publishes their own book, there is not necessarily the same vetting process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I haven't made a syllabus for her yet, but I've got the TC course and a BJU Econ textbook and some Stossel videos and miscellaneous books. My plan was to have her watch the TC course and then read the BJU text, writing essays for the questions at the end of each chapter. It's a good age to write and think through ideas, so that's why I thought essays might be good. Her gov't syllabus has taken a lot of time (and she's FINALLY close to finishing!!), so I don't need econ to be on the heavy end of things. I haven't calculated it out yet, but it should work. There are 2-3 thinking questions at the end of each chapter in the BJU text. I don't know that the BJU text is particularly any better or worse than anything else. I just have it around for free and figured it would be adequate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Jdahlquist, thank you. I wish home school curricula were reviewed with the same detail as college texts. Elizabeth, thank you for sharing what you use. I've always thought TTC is a very efficient way to organize a course. I generally like BJU. I need to be careful not to add to the list of materials from which to choose. ( Much easier said than done). I would consider looking at the college level texts since they are different from the resources listed in my OP above. (The stuff I finally down-selected from based on a long list of possibilities). Madrekts and Swimmermom, would you be willing to share links to the books you mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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