Another math question...BA, MM, Horizons, help

[MotherGoose]

Hi

My 3rd grade dd does okay in math, and loves to read, so I thought we'd try BA.  We have done part of 3A--switching to MIF.  She enjoys BA, because she likes the characters, but she really doesn't like puzzling over problems like it requires.  She needs me to sit there the entire time and work out almost all of the problems with her.  We did Singapore for grades 1-2 and 3A in 3rd grade.  I have MM to supplement BA, as she needs more practice than BA gives.  I am feeling that she's just not "mathy"' enough for BA.  She's smart, but math does not make her happy, and I think it may require that love for BA.  

 

Singapore drove me batty with all the books to juggle.  Math in Focus was okay, but again it's not spiral and I was having to put more review in there for her.  Here's what I'd like: spiral, plenty of review and exercises, but also conceptual.  I don't think it exists.  So I'm looking at Horizons?  I think it has the spiral, but is not as conceptual.  MM seems pretty boring, as does Saxon.  We did some Saxon in K.  We also did Horizons in K.  It wasn't good for her because there was SO much writing.  Then there's also CLE, which I know a lot of people on here like.  What if I did Horizons with Singapore Challenging Word Problems?  There I go supplementing again...She says, "Mama just tell me how to do it!" when I'm trying to get her to figure something out.  But she likes and does well on word problems.  

[Vida Winter]

BJU has a good, basic program that covers what you need. The workbooks are colorful but not overcrowded (Horizons, a similar program, puts too many problems on a single page without enough workspace). We use supplements but they are not necessary.

[SilverMoon]

I have used Horizons 1, 2, 4, 5, & 6 with my kids now, and I fail to see how it's not conceptual. My DD using the second grade book could tell you how starting with 45 and breaking a ten apart to put in the ones places equals 3 tens and 15 ones with her eyes closed and one hand tied behind her back, before she ever used it for subtraction.

 

DS left the 6 book near the beginning for AoPS prealg and he is thriving.

 

Horizons is spiral. While it doesn't have a ton of word problems, I haven't felt the need to supplement. We do math outloud in daily life as it comes up, and occasionally Bedtime Math just for the fun of it.

[MotherGoose]

I have used Horizons 1, 2, 4, 5, & 6 with my kids now, and I fail to see how it's not conceptual. My DD using the second grade book could tell you how starting with 45 and breaking a ten apart to put in the ones places equals 3 tens and 15 ones with her eyes closed and one hand tied behind her back, before she ever used it for subtraction.

 

DS left the 6 book near the beginning for AoPS prealg and he is thriving.

 

Horizons is spiral. While it doesn't have a ton of word problems, I haven't felt the need to supplement. We do math outloud in daily life as it comes up, and occasionally Bedtime Math just for the fun of it.

 

 

That's good to hear.  I must have read that somewhere...

[Farrar]

It does sound like Beast isn't a great fit.

 

You might try the Process Skills in Problem Solving book as an alternative to the CWP. I think they're better organized and presented. Or you might try Primary Grade Challenge Math, which is just a really different take on puzzles and word problems.

 

But also... the further I've taken my kids with math, the more I've started to think that some of that stuff is unnecessary. Like, for ds, he did like Beast, but he was dreadful at those Singapore type problems. Just horrible. Finally, this year, fifth grade, he really had reached readiness for pre-algebra and I decided it was time to just start building up and working through some. I pulled out a Process Skills book and... voila. He thinks they're fun (most of the time anyway). My point is that he just needed to be ready and trying to do them in 2nd or 3rd grade was just a waste of time. I think maybe doing math projects and just a very small number of really hard problems - like one a week or something - and just focusing on the math where they're really making progress - might be a much superior method for a huge number of kids.

 

No comment on Horizons, since I've never seen it.

[8filltheheart]

My experience with Horizons is similar to SilverMoon's.  6 kids have gone through Horizons and on to alg up.  Only 1 of those 6 used anything other than straight Horizons.  Number 7 is in the 3rd grade book.  :)

[Guest]

We switched from Horizons back to CLE. Horizons was not enough explanation, not enough built in fact review, just not enough for us. Flashcards were not happening. It does not teach multiplication facts well. It just tells you to give the kids a chart and eventually they will 'get' it. Yeah, mine could split apart 35 to 2 tens and 15 ones before using it but it was not shown them why this was important or what it meant once they got to subtraction. You can't really hand the workbook over to the kid without teaching the lessons because it is just a bunch of problems. By the time we finished Grade 2 {at 2-3 lessons a day}, all my kids knew how to do was add and subtract. Word problems are few and far between. 

 

We went back to CLE because it DOES explain concepts in depth, it DOES drill those facts, it DOES have word problems, it is also advanced by a year over Horizons and many other programs. 

 

Like any program, what works fabulously for some kids is death for others.

 

Best of luck!

[SarahW]

She enjoys BA, because she likes the characters, but she really doesn't like puzzling over problems like it requires.  She needs me to sit there the entire time and work out almost all of the problems with her.  We did Singapore for grades 1-2 and 3A in 3rd grade.  I have MM to supplement BA, as she needs more practice than BA gives.  I am feeling that she's just not "mathy"' enough for BA.  She's smart, but math does not make her happy, and I think it may require that love for BA.  

 

 

How long have you been trying BA? I ask because it is such a different program. I did a number of math/logic puzzles with my kid  before we first started BA, and he was still frustrated that he needed to stop and think first, before rushing in with calculations.

 

I put BA away for a few months and we did MM3. When we were about done with that I pulled out BA again and he has been really clicking with it. Not sure if the issue was just maturity, or if MM was magic, or if it was because he had seen the concepts already in MM so he was less "scared" of what BA was asking him to do.

 

I do do BA buddy style with him. I don't have a problem giving him the hints, and putting him on the right track when we figure out the first problem in a section. When I see "shortcuts" I tell him. His main problem with BA is that he felt they were "hiding" things from him to make it hard. So sometimes I just show him the "trick" and then he has fun finding the "trick" in the rest of the problems. He doesn't do the puzzles for fun, but he is positive when I pull out the practice book for math time (which is really saying something...)

 

I'm sure there's super mathy kids out there who enjoy doing the practice books for fun all on their own. But I don't think that just because a kid doesn't do that it means they can't use BA.

 

I agree about BA not having a lot of basic practice. I'm keeping MM in my back pocket to help my kid there. It can be boring, yes. I mixed up the sections and liberally cut anything he didn't need.

 

That was my solution. If you think it's best to switch you should, of course. But I think it's good to try tweaking what you have first.

[SparklyUnicorn]

For that grade level I'd say it's probably pretty normal to still have to sit with the kid or near the kid while they work on it.  Most kids that age are not independent. 

 

I used SM, but I did not use all the books.  I just used the textbook and workbook.  I think the Standards edition or even Math in Focus have enough challenge and variety without the extra books.  You can always make it more spiral by adding a few review problems daily to whatever it is you are doing.  And Standards has a ton of review.  I didn't really find myself needing to add in much for review except some basic fact practice which we covered daily with games.

 

 

[MotherGoose]

For that grade level I'd say it's probably pretty normal to still have to sit with the kid or near the kid while they work on it.  Most kids that age are not independent. 

 

I used SM, but I did not use all the books.  I just used the textbook and workbook.  I think the Standards edition or even Math in Focus have enough challenge and variety without the extra books.  You can always make it more spiral by adding a few review problems daily to whatever it is you are doing.  And Standards has a ton of review.  I didn't really find myself needing to add in much for review except some basic fact practice which we covered daily with games.

 

Our normal math procedure is for her to work some things with me in the "teaching" phase, and then go off to do some work on her own.  I'm not used to constant hand-holding.  When I used SM she needed the extra books to get enough review, and then she forgets things.  This morning she forgot how to regroup 82-24.  Grrr.  Today was one of those mornings though.  

 

Someone else suggested that I  use Saxon.  She would be somewhere between 3 and 5/4.  I would buy 5/4 if I did it, and fill in whatever gaps there are.  3 is just way too easy for her.  However, I am extremely hesitant to do it because she'd have to write out the problems.  And she also likes color and pictures.  Someone else said they do have their 3rd grader copy out all the problems.  I'm afraid that would make her hate math, and I'm NOT writing out all the problems for her like some people suggest.  I've seen extensive samples and I know SHE wouldn't have room to work in the book.  That makes me think I might try out Horizons.  I am not a fan of BJU in general. Sometimes I think all these choices make homeschooling harder than it was back in the "day" when there were only a few options!!!