Tweens maturing, changing learning styles in Math

[stephanie]

DD 12 (almost 13) will be starting 7th grade in the fall. Last year was tough...emotionally, physically...she started her period. So it was all around tough. She has been doing MUS for past 2 years and is halfway through Epsilon now and we planned to do Zeta this year as well. This would have her ready for Pre-Alg. next year. However, she is now coming to me asking to change programs because she doesn't like the style anymore. She said she liked the look of Saxon, but that is a completely different approach, and I don't think she knows what she's asking for. She has matured over the past 4 months, made a lot of changes. She does well in MUS so perhaps I should keep her in it? However, I don't want to have to fight her all year long over math. I want her to be able to be a part of her education, especially since she will be starting high school soon and I want her to start giving more input on what she wants to do. I just don't know if I should try it? If so, what program would be a good starting point and how should I implement it? Finishing up Epsilon and slowly moving into a new one? I really feel she wants to be more challenged academically because she sees her dance friends home work, and it's much different than hers. I reassure her that it WILL be different because public school is different, but it doesn't take away that pressure on her.

 

I would love to hear if anyone else has had this problem and any suggestions...thanks!

[almondbutterandjelly]

My dd seemed to require a mastery approach to math until this year.  We had done Singapore Math and some of the Key to books.  She turned 13 in September, and we started Horizons Pre-Algebra in January (which is spiral), and she's doing great and retaining.

 

So, yes, I do think kids' learning styles can change.  Yea!  I don't have any specific experience with Saxon, although it's size and black and white pages turn me off.  But lots of people love it.

 

Just because it's worked so well for us... have her check out Horizons.  It's colorful, and doesn't try to do too much at each lesson.  Occasionally they introduce more than one topic during a lesson, and I will break up the lesson into more than one day.  So it's sort of like combining mastery of one topic with a spiral review.

 

HTH!

[stephanie]

My dd seemed to require a mastery approach to math until this year.  We had done Singapore Math and some of the Key to books.  She turned 13 in September, and we started Horizons Pre-Algebra in January (which is spiral), and she's doing great and retaining.

 

So, yes, I do think kids' learning styles can change.  Yea!  I don't have any specific experience with Saxon, although it's size and black and white pages turn me off.  But lots of people love it.

 

Just because it's worked so well for us... have her check out Horizons.  It's colorful, and doesn't try to do too much at each lesson.  Occasionally they introduce more than one topic during a lesson, and I will break up the lesson into more than one day.  So it's sort of like combining mastery of one topic with a spiral review.

 

HTH!

 

Helps tremendously! Thank you!

[Nicholas_mom]

BTW, if you like Horizons Pre-alg they are having a ONE day Sale on July 31st for 20% off of Horizons and other Alpha-Omega products.  Its at the homeschooler Buyers Club.

 

Does anyone know if Horizons ever have a bigger sale than 20% off?

[stephanie]

My dd seemed to require a mastery approach to math until this year.  We had done Singapore Math and some of the Key to books.  She turned 13 in September, and we started Horizons Pre-Algebra in January (which is spiral), and she's doing great and retaining.

 

So, yes, I do think kids' learning styles can change.  Yea!  I don't have any specific experience with Saxon, although it's size and black and white pages turn me off.  But lots of people love it.

 

Just because it's worked so well for us... have her check out Horizons.  It's colorful, and doesn't try to do too much at each lesson.  Occasionally they introduce more than one topic during a lesson, and I will break up the lesson into more than one day.  So it's sort of like combining mastery of one topic with a spiral review.

 

HTH!

 

If we do Horizons, dd is not ready for Pre-Alg, so I'm assuming we just do the 6th grade book?

[almondbutterandjelly]

I would assume so.  We only started Horizons with Pre-Algebra.  I'm sure there are samples online of a little bit of it.  If you live near a Mardel store, they tend to carry Horizons math.

[almondbutterandjelly]

I looked at some Horizons 6 math on Rainbow Resource, and I don't love it the way I love the Pre-Algebra.  Before you conclude your dd isn't ready for Pre-Algebra, check out the Pre-Algebra book.  I have found that it seems like a big review of all the math that came before.  Any holes that need to be filled easily can be.  If you have done nothing with decimals before, you might have to teach that part a little harder, but honestly, decimals aren't that hard.  Although, I am very comfortable teaching math, so that may prejudice me a little bit.

 

 

[Slache]

Zeta teaches decimals and percents which Saxon would expect her to know already, at least somewhat. I would either have her do Zeta, then let her switch or have her do Key To or Life of Fred to cover those topics, then allow her to switch.

 

 

 

 

-The woman who has yet to teach math

[SilverMoon]

You can usually find used Saxon textbooks pretty cheap. I'd have her take the placement test and get one for you both to look at.

 

Likewise I'd absolutely use the placement test for Horizons before you choose a level. Horizons covers more topics than MUS does. (There is one poster here who's DC go straight from Horizons 6 to MUS alg.)

 

Of those two I think Saxon offers more help for you as the teacher. Horizons expects you to teach the lessons, but doesn't give you much more help than what is in the student text.

 

My younger kids are using Horizons with great success. The little bits of different concepts keeps it more interesting, and they love silly jokes.

[dereksurfs]

Hi Stephanie,

 

As you may recall our son Luke used MUS through Zeta and part of Pre-A.  Like yourself I was looking to move away from MUS for a variety of reasons including the lack of challenge.  However as others have mentioned MUS has quite a different S&S from other programs.  I was looking for a good jumping off point which would create as few gaps as possible.  Most MUS folks at the time recommended completing elementary math first, through Zeta, because of these sometimes significant S&S gaps/differences.  After much deliberation I decided to heed the advice of the hive and stuck with it to completion.  I think this worked out well for him, though a bit boring at times. 

 

While I think anything is doable my concern would be that it may cause her to go back quite a bit more than she realizes before moving ahead in attempts to cover topics not yet seen in MUS.  And that can bruise a young child's ego especially when considering where her friends might be.  This is a difficult decision for sure.

 

There are quite a few paths you can take in terms of curricula (31+ flavors).  But the bottom line will be that she will still need to master all the topics in Zeta with whatever she ends up using (e.g. Decimals, Percents and other concepts not yet covered).  With that in mind I have a few suggestions as alternative approaches this late in the game.  

 

* I recommend taking a hybrid approach with her using MUS along with another supplement to add challenge, rigor and interest. Keep MUS as the spine and then add in something else such as LOF, MM, Primary Challenge Math by Zacarro.

 

* Consider introducing algebraic reasoning skills now since this will be needed for High School.  A good one to start with is Hands-on-Equations. Other fun ones we've used include DragonBox 1 & 2.  With Luke he felt like he wanted to move ahead as well.  So I let him start MUS Pre-A once a week while still finishing Zeta.  He was getting bored with primary mathematics and this seemed to help give him motivation to finish things up in Zeta with an eye to the future.

 

* Lastly and possibly most significantly its time for her to pick things up a bit if possible spending more time on math this coming year in preparation for HS.  As our kids age/mature I make math a higher priority in their overall schedule above other topics spending more time on it daily.  This allows them to cover more material along with supplementals. While math may not be their favorite topic or area of strength it is still no less important as a primary life skill.  So it needs front and center attention.  I'm not sure how much time your dd spends on Math currently or if she does any during the Summer.  But it seems like it is time now to re-prioritize some things in prep for public HS if at all possible.  

 

I don't think merely switching programs from MUS to anything else will get her to where she wants to be with her peers.  That will take good old fashion extra hard work in the year to come.

 

[stephanie]

Hi Stephanie,

 

As you may recall our son Luke used MUS through Zeta and part of Pre-A.  Like yourself I was looking to move away from MUS for a variety of reasons including the lack of challenge.  However as others have mentioned MUS has quite a different S&S from other programs.  I was looking for a good jumping off point which would create as few gaps as possible.  Most MUS folks at the time recommended completing elementary math first, through Zeta, because of these sometimes significant S&S gaps/differences.  After much deliberation I decided to heed the advice of the hive and stuck with it to completion.  I think this worked out well for him, though a bit boring times. 

 

While I think anything is doable my concern would be that it may cause her to go back quite a bit more than she realizes before moving ahead in attempts to cover topics not yet seen in MUS.  And that can bruise a young child's ego especially when considering where her friends might be.  This is a difficult decision for sure.

 

There are quite a few paths you can take in terms of curricula (31+ flavors).  But the bottom line will be that she will still need to master all the topics in Zeta with whatever she ends up using (e.g. Decimals, Percents and other concepts not yet covered).  With that in mind I have a few suggestions as alternative approaches this late in the game.  

 

* I recommend taking a hybrid approach with her using MUS along with another supplement to add challenge, rigor and interest. Keep MUS as the spine and then add in something else such as LOF, MM, Primary Challenge Math by Zacarro.

 

* Consider introducing algebraic reasoning skills now since this will be needed for High School.  A good one to start with is Hands-on-Equations. Other fun ones we've used include DragonBox 1 & 2.  With Luke he felt like he wanted to move ahead as well.  So I let him start MUS Pre-A once a week while still finishing Zeta.  He was getting bored with primary mathematics and this seemed to help give him motivation to finish things up in Zeta with an eye to the future.

 

* Lastly and possibly most significantly its time for her to pick things up a bit if possible spending more time on math this coming year in preparation for HS.  As our kids age/mature I make math a higher priority in their overall schedule above other topics spending more time on it daily.  This allows them to cover more material along with supplementals. While math may not be their favorite topic or area of strength it is still no less important as a primary life skill.  So it needs front an center attention.  I'm not sure how much time your dd spends on Math currently or if she does any during the Summer.  But it seems like it is time now to re-prioritize some things in prep for public HS if at all possible.  

 

I don't think merely switching programs from MUS to anything else will get her to where she wants to be with her peers.  That will take good old fashion extra hard work in the year to come.

 

Hi Derek, it's that time again!

 

Thank you for your advice. Your experience with you ds is just what mine is experiencing. She wants to move to a more "mature" format, but doesn't have the skills yet. I'm going to have her finish Zeta because she needs to. I will supplement with Keys workbooks and perhaps something else you recommended. The problem with other program is that the S&S of MUS is different so I'm afraid until pre-alg, she won't be ready for a new program. She at least needs to finish Zeta.

 

Thanks for the thoughts!

[dereksurfs]

Hi Derek, it's that time again!

 

Thank you for your advice. Your experience with you ds is just what mine is experiencing. She wants to move to a more "mature" format, but doesn't have the skills yet. I'm going to have her finish Zeta because she needs to. I will supplement with Keys workbooks and perhaps something else you recommended. The problem with other program is that the S&S of MUS is different so I'm afraid until pre-alg, she won't be ready for a new program. She at least needs to finish Zeta.

 

Thanks for the thoughts!

 

Agreed, this gives her what she needs (completing primary mathematics) along with some of the things she wants (exposure to more advanced and challenging topics).  Other paths, while interesting, will take longer for her to complete at this stage.

[Pen]

My son did MUS, and did well with it, but somewhat like your dd got tired of it. It took awhile for us to find a new good fit, and for awhile I regretted letting him switch, but it seems to be working out okay at this point. What we are currently doing is Saxon 8/7 as main, and AoPS pre-algebra as supplement. (It started out the other way around.)

(He did a year with MM being the spine between, but that was a really bad fit.)

 

If you are considering Saxon, here is a S&S: http://www.shopchristianliberty.com/content/bookdesc/scope.pdf

 

I do not think you actually need to finish zeta to move to it at maybe 7/6 level--but you could have zeta on hand if you felt you needed more detail in the decimals etc. area.