Girlmom123 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 My daughter is starting 9th grade this year (my first high schooler) and we are trying to decide on a science curriculum. In WTM, Biology is supposed to be taken in 9th grade, but the DIVE website says this: "Due to the heavy emphasis on chemistry in today’s biology courses, ICP [integrated Chemistry and Physics] is recommended before taking Biology." I'm trying to figure out the best way to go. Do you agree with this statement, and should 9th graders start with ICP before taking biology? Apologia has Biology before Chemistry and Physics. Thank you for your insights! Stephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klmama Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 It's hard to answer this because there isn't really a "right" answer. Look at your dc's background and abilities, the requirements at the toughest college they're likely to attend, and then decide. Will they need advanced sciences? If so, start with biology so there's time to take at least one advanced course. You can take extra time on any sections that include chemistry. If advanced sciences are not needed, you could start with physical science and go on to biology and chemistry, with physics an option for the senior year if they need 4 science courses, or you could still do bio first. Another option would be to do physics first with a full year of Conceptual Physics, then Conceptual Chemistry, and then biology. After that, there would still be time for an AP course in one of the sciences. There are lots of options. All lead to college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I agree that, from a systematic point of view, physics should be taken first, since it is the most fundamental of sciences: chemistry is an application of physics, and modern biology courses require some chemistry. However, most students lack the math preparation to do physics first, which is why it is popular in this country to begin with bio. Your student's science sequence will be determined by his math background. In our home school, we begin with physics in 9th, but my students have completed algebra at that point. A student without algebra background could take a conceptual physics and/or chemistry course; this would, however, take up science slots and limit the opportunities for more rigorous science courses in high school. So, beginning with bio and later doing real physics and chem once the math skills are in place may be a better option. It all depends on your student's goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 It depends on the curriculum you're following. If you're going to do Apologia, you should follow their sequence. If you're going to do DIVE, you should follow their sequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsbeth Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 My dh is a high school science teacher in the public schools, but we have used DIVE with all of our kids at home. The "ICP" course replaced "Physical Science" several years ago. It is a great course for an acc. 8th grader or a more average 9th grader. It's a great introduction to high school level work. It gives an overview of just enough chem/physics. The chem concepts will be slightly helpful in better understanding some Bio topics and that way the student has a bit of background when they tackled true Chem and Physics later on in high school. An acc 9th grade student with a strong science and math background could safely skip it and begin the sequence with Bio. If you're trying to compare DIVE to Apologia directly, ICP is a close match for Apologia's Physical Science class. DIVE has syllabi that correlate with Apologia so it's possible to use Apologia as your spine book for textbook readings and get instruction, labs, etc from DIVE. We like DIVE b/c it is a combo of readings and lectures. The DIVE testing requires students to synthesize information from both sources, similar to what you encounter in a college or university setting. It was great prep. for my older kids in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Dive's ICP is more like a stepped up Physical Science. It is suggested for 8th grade and is not a replacement for high school level courses in Chemistry and Physics. Dive's sequence is Earth Sci, ICP, Bio, Chem, Physics. The last three can be done using Apologia books with the Dive lectures. Here's a link: http://www.diveintomath.com/science-1/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 The choice of which course to start with is less critical than which science curriculum you want to use. Biology is a great starting place for high school science, but as Regentrude points out, Physics and Chemistry are the building blocks that Biology is built on. If you child has already had an introduction to those subjects in Jr High, either a Physical Science course or using a WTM approach to science in the younger years, then you are set for Biology in 9th. If not, you might want to consider ICP. If you are using Apologia alone, you can just jump right into Biology even without the Physics/Chem background. It doesn't include enough biochemistry for it to be an issue. If you are going to use DIVE, then you should give more consideration to the Physics/Chem background. We did ICP which is half physics and half chemistry as an 8th grade class. One of my kids used DIVE and one didn't. Both used the same textbook (Concepts In Action). You can skip it if your child is anxious to get to more advanced sciences, but it does provides some good building blocks for the rest of high school science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girlmom123 Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Thanks, Everyone! :laugh: You all gave me a lot of good info to think about. I should probably mention, my DD is not strong in math and science. She's strong in language arts and I can see her pursuing linguistics in the future. Would that make any of you suggest one curriculum over the other? If we did DIVE which has video lectures, does that free me up as her science teacher? (I am not strong in Math and Science, either). Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I think Apologia and DIVE are both designed to be independent. My dd hates the Apologia chatty book style, ds was fine with it. My ds hates the dry lecture style of Dr. Shoreman (DIVE). If possible, have her try each and see which one she likes. My ds would prefer most forms of torture to using DIVE science. My dd liked it pretty well and has used it two years with good success. There are sample videos on the DIVE website. They really ARE representative. If she finds them dry and boring, she will think the same of the course. If she likes "just the facts" as mine does she may think they are perfect. I don't ever have my kids do science independently. I have a science degree and it is one of my favorite parts of homeschooling, so I stayed involved with both, but they are written to the student and could be as independent as you and your dd want them to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girlmom123 Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Thank you, Debbie, that really helps. According to what you say, my dd would definitely like the chatty style vs. the dry lectures. I'm so glad you pointed that out. I will have her look at the sample videos. THANK YOU SO MUCH! :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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