Talk to me about intentionally accelerating education (cross post)

[Cakes]

I originally posted this on the general board and it was suggested that I bring my question here.

 

I am new here and am looking to begin HS in the fall. I have already found this group to be an invaluable resource!

In Ca ( where I am) I believe they are able to start acrueing high school credits begining in 8th grade.
Our goal is to help DD, who will be 7th grade in the fall, to accelerate her education to accommodate her career choice. She is a serious ballet student, if she stays on track her future means going away to a pre-professional ballet school, where she would have to finish her schooling online. The best case scenario would be to have her finished with high school and maybe even have a couple of college credits under her belt by the start of her 11grade year. 

Honestly I do not even know if that is possible, but I figured this is the right group to ask!

She is already a bit advanced, and excels academically, but the daily school/homework/dance schedule has her stressed and we are trying to make a shift there by HSing her to support her in going after her dreams. 

Edited to add, that DD has been identified as highly gifted thru our PS district.

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[Arcadia]

You might want to take a read through Quark's thread in this board since she is also in California :)

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/501099-edited-community-college-question/

[Cakes]

Sorry if I was not clear, we are in California :-)

 

Thank you for the link, I will check it out.

[kiana]

Make a list of what you consider as essential high school credits, and then start back-tracking to make sure you can get there.

 

Will she be doing high school work in all the core courses in the fall? If so, you can just do a standard high school plan, starting now.

 

If she is not in legit high school coursework, it's going to require some doubling up on courses to get 4x4 + some electives.

[Cakes]

Make a list of what you consider as essential high school credits, and then start back-tracking to make sure you can get there.

 

Will she be doing high school work in all the core courses in the fall? If so, you can just do a standard high school plan, starting now.

 

If she is not in legit high school coursework, it's going to require some doubling up on courses to get 4x4 + some electives.

 

She will likely be ready for primarily 8th grade curricula in the fall, with perhaps a sprinkling if of some 7th. I am not really sure how to sort out placements.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by doubling up on courses to get 4x4?

[Arcadia]

Can you clarify what you mean by doubling up on courses to get 4x4?

I think Kiana means the 4 math, 4 science, 4 english, 4 social studies for Texas high school graduation

 

For CSU and UC there is the a-g requirements so that might be what you want to look at if applying to our state universities.

http://www.calstate.edu/sas/publications/documents/csu-uc-a-gcomparisonmatrix.pdf

[Cakes]

The goal is not so much to apply to college, the goal is really to finish high school 1-2 yrs early...and maybe attempt some online college credit. But college is not the focus, just how to finish early.

[quark]

My post (that link Arcadia mentioned) has many veteran posters chiming in about community college and other avenues like AP and my situation is different in that my son is self-accelerating due to his love of math. Given what you've mentioned about college not being the main goal, it might not apply to your situation. Perhaps Jenny in Florida's posts might be helpful to you on the dance angle although her children are college bound (or finished college young).

[kiana]

4x4 meaning 4 of each core subject in order to apply to university if she decides she wants to go.

 

I'd be really reluctant to declare a student 'finished' early if they weren't ready for anything but a community college. If at 18 or later she changes her mind

 and wants to go to university, I wouldn't want her to be at a serious disadvantage.

[EndOfOrdinary]

In my pre-homeschooler life I was a high school instructor at an alternative school. Many of the students were considered at-risk (pregnancy, drug issues, raising younger siblings, medical problems, horrid home life, homeless, etc.). However, I taught study hall and independent contracts for kids much like your daughter. These students all had various reasons that school full time was not working. Some were athletes, some incredibly career driven and already working full time, some going military as early as possible, that sort of thing. We accelerated a lot.

 

Federal law states that a student cannot earn more than 13 credits a year. This is a big one. It does not matter what your daughter does, she is only allowed that many. We actively had to slow some dual enrollment kids down because of it. Since most places consider 22 to 24 credits a high school diploma, she cannot finish in one year. Two full years is do able. I have seen it done many times. It requires a student to condense their coursework, and due to homeschooling, take outside tests for verification. As much as your daughter is not considering college, putting in some time now could safe guard her future enormously.

 

Math: PreAlgebra 7th and Algebra in 8th. Geometry for 9th and Algebra 2 10th. If she is a strong math student, you could use and integrated curriculum which combines Alg2 and Geometry. This allows for PreCalculus 10th grade year and a stronger ability on the Math2 SAT test. The SATII subject test can confirm the grades she receives.

 

English: This one is by far the hardest. Start a 9th grade text in the fall, a 10th grade text the year after that. Ninth grade is mainly learning how to do literary analysis and compositions; tenth grade is the major reading year. A seventh or eighth grader can do either. This way she can hit the ground running in 9th grade with a junior text. Your hole goal is to get her prepped for dual enrollment by 11th grade. This way she can finish off her last two years of English at college. She will not be earning credits for English in 7th or 8th, and 9th grade will still just be 9th grade English, but she will be fully prepared. Compacting English is a risky one because it can put your entire transcript into question. Math is much less subjective. Her junior year she can take English 101 and English 102 at community college giving her the final two English credits. The Communinty College classes will confirm her English grades.

 

Social Studies: these are easy to begin in 7th grade. Geography is a good one for 7th. Choose a high school level text as it will give a foundation for the materials which are covered later. By following the English plan above, 9th grade would be American Literature, combine this with American History. Tenth grade would be either British lit or Great Book which combine well with European History. SAT subject tests for U.S. History and World History could easily be taken either after the classes, or studied for junior year as a refresher. Half credits can be earned over the summer like Government or U.S. Constitution, Modern American History from the Industrial Revolution to Today. They can add credits in little bits which really help. Junior year take Western Civ 101 and 102 to complete the last two credits of Social Studies.

 

Science: start these concepts early. The courses are content heavy and often take time to really settle in for some kids. In seventh and eighth do one year each of combine chemistry and physics, and one year biology. In ninth grade pick one, in tenth and eleventh do the others. Make sure all are lab and math heavy. The conceptual work should have been done in 7th and 8th. Over the summer in any of those years a lighter, non lab science like anatomy, botany, marine, astronomy can count as the other science. A half credit each over a summer is fine. Hit the big three and the last one does not matter.

 

Her dance classes can count as electives. Many states have a cap on how many PE classes a student can have (normally around four full credits). However, she could do some sort of appreciation class to count as fine art. Something like world dance styles or technique, historical dance, famous dancers and their works. That sort of thing. She can get full credits for those. Foreign language is not necessary to graduate in most schools.

 

Four English credits, four math credits, four science credits, four Social Studies credits, four PE credits, one fine art equal out to be 21 credits. The rest are all electives. They can be taken either during the summers or at Community College junior year.

 

Do not skimp on outside verification of the condensed transcript. If something does happen and your daughter winds up needing to go to college, it will be invaluable. If she wants to attend a dance academy, it will be invaluable. If anyone ever questions her transcript, it will be invaluable. If at 28 she can no longer dance, it will be invaluable.

 

Fair warning: this is an insane course load. It is for the very determined student. However it is possible and I have seen it done numerous times. I myself earned 13 credits my junior year of high school through an independent study program so that I could graduate on time. If the course load is too heavy with all her dance, thin the workload by having high school take four full years only homeschool her. A normal homeschool day can be as short as three hours and still fit everything in. The above course load takes a good six to seven solid hours a day and no summer breaks.

[Dmmetler]

I would suggest (as a former young musician and former college music professor) that you focus on getting a solid HIGH SCHOOL education with the best dance training she can get now, as opposed to college coursework early. Finishing high school a year or two early with a solid curriculum is doable. I'd look seriously at where she can go ahead and start high school coursework, especially in humanities classes, and really, really ramp up the writing requirements. In performing arts, foreign languages tend to be important. French is a logical one for a dancer, as is Italian. For musicians, German and Latin are both quite helpful as well, so I would really push foreign language, preferably to a level where the student can pass the placement exam and avoid needing to take it at the college level at all, because, honestly, it's usually a requirement that there's not a lot of room in the degree plan to fit in, and definitely much easier to fit in if you can take the specific courses for the major as opposed to having to do several semesters of introductory courses first. History is an important field of study for performing artists, because art comes with a context, and the better you understand the context, the easier it is to interpret it, and that's another that can be started in middle school. European history is going to be more important to her than US history, so I'd make sure to get at least one solid European history course in. Geography isn't a bad thing, either-it's embarrassing to be interviewed after a performance and not know what continent you're on or which one you're going to for the next stop on the tour (and when you're exhausted plus have post-show adrenaline still surging, you really, really NEED to know such information in depth, because your brain isn't functioning on full capacity, so if it's something that you sort of know, but not quite, you're not going to be able to pull it out). And, within those subjects, getting a good grounding on the specific history of dance (and, especially in classical ballet, the music history surrounding the specific composers) should be included as well. 
 

 

As a performing arts major, the standards for college entrance are a bit different than academics, and even more so if she's heading to a conservatory or pre-pro company school/apprentice program. She needs solid high school skills and solid high school test scores, particularly in writing-heavy subjects. College courses in a performing arts program tend to be writing heavy and focused, and many of the careers that occur after a performing career are also writing-intensive, so those skills are invaluable. Having a solid high school math core that lets her place into college courses immediately is also a requirement. There is NO time on a performing arts majors schedule for remediation.

 

However, what she doesn't need is math beyond the high school level in high school. I would make being able to get a very, very solid ACT score a much higher priority than AP calculus, because for her major, she won't necessarily even be expected to TAKE calculus, and getting on a STEM math sequence, which tends to have both more classroom/lab/discussion session hours and also take more hours outside of class can end up being incompatible with the schedule expected of a performing arts major, who gets nickel and dimed to death, where a class that is 1 or even 0 credit hours can occupy 5+ hours a week of classroom time and 5+ hours a week of independent practice by itself. Advanced placement or CLEP sounds great IF it actually replaces classes, but often it doesn't. Often it just places the student into higher level classes. In general, the goal should be to be solidly prepared for business calculus (because I STRONGLY encourage a business minor and/or teaching credentials for ANY performing artist who is attending a program where that's an option-and because if she is able to go the company route out of high school, when she's done with her active performing career, she'll probably need to pick up those business courses and experience later anyway). She needs a solid high school sequence, and especially as a dancer, a good biology sequence that's heavy on biomechanics and anatomy can help because she's going to have to be able to explain what is happening with her body. For a musician, physics with some work on acoustics is VERY helpful (and so is biology with biomechanics/anatomy, because we're pretty prone to injuries, too). She doesn't necessarily need AP coursework, but she needs a solid background. These may or may not be able to be started in middle school, depending on her math background.

 

 

The audition is paramount. So is having a full resume that shows taking full advantage of summer intensives, short courses, and performance opportunities. with the best teachers you can access. Teaching before entering college is a good thing as well, or assisting with teaching, because it tends to indicate that the student IS thinking of the long-term career, not just the short term. You don't want to be a big fish in a small pond. You want to be a big fish who has truly experienced the ocean and can thrive in it-because that's what survives in the professional world in the performing arts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stupidusername]

 She is a serious ballet student, if she stays on track her future means going away to a pre-professional ballet school, where she would have to finish her schooling online. 

 

Just curious: What percent of pre-professional ballet school grads are able to find work as professional ballet dancers?

[Dmmetler]

Just curious: What percent of pre-professional ballet school grads are able to find work as professional ballet dancers?

 

Honestly, this is the sort of question that makes you cringe when you're one of those folks who can't imagine doing anything BUT a performing arts area. The fact is, career-wise, the chance of succeeding is pretty low. But at the same time, the opportunity to attend a serious, pre-pro, conservatory-type program is so amazing, so wonderful, so intense that it's something that is worth it in and of itself. You are likely to end up teaching or running a studio or writing reviews for the local newspaper, or even going back and changing careers entirely-but to do, to be completely immersed in what you love, with others who are equally passionate.

 

There truly is nothing like it in the world.

[Cakes]

Just curious: What percent of pre-professional ballet school grads are able to find work as professional ballet dancers?

 

It is a very very very small percent. I will not justify our choices other than to say this is her dream and she has absolutely zero chance of fulfilling this dream without 100% support at home. Ballet and performing are a huge part of this child and she would be lost without it. If she does not end up as a pro she will certainly do something in the field of dance. 

 

That said, a solid education is very important and I will make sure that she is prepared for college should she shift her direction. My intention is not to short cut her education but to be extremely efficient and move through it as quickly as possible. While I am behind her in the pursuit of her dreams I am also not willing to let any doors close on her. 

 

I will go back and re-read all of what has been posted. I am grateful to you all for taking the time to share such detailed information!!

 

Thank you dmmetler, that was beautifully put :-)

[Cakes]

EndofOrdinary and dmmetler, your posts are priceless. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to help me understand what I can do to help my daughter get ahead. It is deeply appreciated!

 

I will print out this thread to use as my guide moving forward. Lots to learn!

 

dmmetler, DD is on a pre pro track at her studio and is building her resume, is active with summer intensives and is hoping to be in the classroom with younger ballet students helping in the next year. I appreciate the input on that end of things as well, you have given me excellent advice.