What writing program now...

[Heather in VA]

Need some more writing instruction for my 9th grader. She's quite a good writer as far as organization, sentences and paragraph structure, and expository writing. She's done a writing intensive (level C) from IEW and took an expository essay course from Bravewriter. She has also had writing instruction in earlier years but that is what is relevant to this. She did very well in both but really disliked the IEW course because she felt it was dull and easy. I'd really like to move her into more persuasive writing and rhetorical thought. She's written some persuasive essays but I think she needs more work on crafting effective argument. Obviously that is expected from a 9th grader. Anyway, I'm debating between Lost Tools of Writing and Writing with Skill 2 and 3 (which I hear is coming out in the summer but maybe that's wrong). With my oldest we used Classical Writing and Chreia/Maxim and Herodotus were great but she took them as online classes so they were very effective. They don't offer that anymore and I don't feel equipped to teach them myself. I know I have to spend some time teaching the writing but I do want something that can be done rather independently and then I can correct, guide and critique rather than something that has to be done fully interactively. I want something that really focuses on the content of the writing rather than a formula or structure of the essay but she doesn't need something that talks about using stronger words or the basics of 'interesting' writing - if that makes sense. 

 

So do you recommend either LToW or WWS2/WW3 or something else? 

 

Thanks

Heather

[freesia]

Need some more writing instruction for my 9th grader. She's quite a good writer as far as organization, sentences and paragraph structure, and expository writing. She's done a writing intensive (level C) from IEW and took an expository essay course from Bravewriter. She has also had writing instruction in earlier years but that is what is relevant to this. She did very well in both but really disliked the IEW course because she felt it was dull and easy. I'd really like to move her into more persuasive writing and rhetorical thought. She's written some persuasive essays but I think she needs more work on crafting effective argument. Obviously that is expected from a 9th grader. Anyway, I'm debating between Lost Tools of Writing and Writing with Skill 2 and 3 (which I hear is coming out in the summer but maybe that's wrong). With my oldest we used Classical Writing and Chreia/Maxim and Herodotus were great but she took them as online classes so they were very effective. They don't offer that anymore and I don't feel equipped to teach them myself. I know I have to spend some time teaching the writing but I do want something that can be done rather independently and then I can correct, guide and critique rather than something that has to be done fully interactively. I want something that really focuses on the content of the writing rather than a formula or structure of the essay but she doesn't need something that talks about using stronger words or the basics of 'interesting' writing - if that makes sense. 
 
So do you recommend either LToW or WWS2/WW3 or something else? 
 
Thanks
Heather

wws 2 and 3 aren't rhetoric. I think she is beyond them. LTOW, which I have used, is rhetoric. It still does do a lot with structure and has check lists. However, it does have an excellent approach to invention.

[1Togo]

Given what your dd had done and the choices, I would do LTOW. Is there any way she can do LTOW 1 this summer and LTOW 2 in the Fall? The actual writing in LTOW 1 might be somewhat easy for her, but the invention work is challenging. After LTOW 1 and 2, she could move on to advanced literature courses.

[PeterPan]

Heather, I'd get her the new (ish, 2012) AP Lang. textbook.  She's strong and she'd be fine with it.  WWS2 and 3, sigh...  You know me...  They could gag you if you let them.  I posted a list of all the stuff we're skipping.  Your dd is a stronger student, so she could do all that stuff.  Sure, why not, do it.  If you DON'T like the AP Language book, then you could do it.  WWS just walks them through everything tediously, carefully, painfully.  It's fine, but the models are archaic.  We do it and she survives.  I think it's even working for her and it's letting us have the discussions we need on how to connect her brain to structure.  You ought to see what she did with this last essay.  They took some nasty, disgusting (supposedly classic) essay from almost 200 years ago and had to analyze it for rhetorical structure.  Fine, I'm cool with that.  I can't SEE the structure myself, lol, but she could and got it done.  Then they're supposed to imitate.  Fine, another classical approach you'll like.  There's never an audience, a point, joy, so I've encouraged her with each project to FIND a reason, an audience, why you should be writing a certain way or using a certain tone.  That helps some.  

 

She ended up mapping it with Inspiration using SWB's rhetorical outline as a template that she could fill out.  She created her own audience (Watson's blog readers) and a voice (Sherlock).  The whole thing was hilarious and really worked, to my mind, but that was the joy SHE brought to it, not what was originally in there, kwim?  

 

WWS spends a lot of time building up practice in each individual component they would use rhetorically, and then slowly pulls them together.  It's really hard to CONDENSE that, though it can be done.  I actually really like it and like it better than the rhetoric books I have lying around my house.  I'm just warning you you might slit your throat in the process.

 

IEW has their Elegant Essay.  Would that be worth your time?  You could do that now and go into AP Lang in the fall.

 

Note to others: I would never say all that to anyone else. Heather and I are dear chums and go back years.  :D

[CarolynMR]

I am new on the forum, and although I have been homeschooling 18 years and have heard of many different curriculum, I am finding that I do not recognize the abbreviations.  ** Please tell me what LToW, WWS2, and WW3 are.**

 

(I have successfully and happily used Sonlight and TOG for my 3 older children, but my 4th child (going into 11th grade) is a slow reader and does not like to read so I am looking for alternatives for her for American Literature and US History (as well as writing since she may not be using the assignment with the Sonlight and TOG I already own.)

 

Thank you!!

[Angie in VA]

I am new on the forum, and although I have been homeschooling 18 years and have heard of many different curriculum, I am finding that I do not recognize the abbreviations.  ** Please tell me what LToW, WWS2, and WW3 are.**

 

(I have successfully and happily used Sonlight and TOG for my 3 older children, but my 4th child (going into 11th grade) is a slow reader and does not like to read so I am looking for alternatives for her for American Literature and US History (as well as writing since she may not be using the assignment with the Sonlight and TOG I already own.)

 

Thank you!!

 

 

LToW = Lost Tools of Writing

 

WWS = Writing with Style written by Susan Wise Bauer 

 

HTH. (Hope this helps!)

[Angie in VA]

 

She ended up mapping it with Inspiration using SWB's rhetorical outline as a template that she could fill out.  She created her own audience (Watson's blog readers) and a voice (Sherlock).  The whole thing was hilarious and really worked, to my mind, but that was the joy SHE brought to it, not what was originally in there, kwim?  

 

What fun!

[CarolynMR]

Thank you!

[Marla]

If you want to enroll her in an online LTW course, check out  Jessica Shao @ Coram Deo Tutorials and CiRCE Academy.  I corresponded at length with Jessica Shao and was quite impressed.  She previously taught IEW.