AoPS users-Help!

[JoJosMom]

Here's the problem:  We started Lial's Pre-Algebra before I received AoPS, and I gave the short person the choice of which to use (My original plan was to use both. Once I had both in my possession, I was afraid that it would be too much [volume].)  She decided to just keep on with Lial's. Now we're to Chapter 5 in Lial's and it's just not a good fit.  She makes an unusual number of errors (just took a test today and got an 84%.)  The errors are just sloppy mistakes.  I do not believe that she has a comprehension problem, I believe she has a boredom problem.  When she was at a Christian school and doing Horizon's math we had the same problem.  I characterize it as "doing her math with half her brain tied behind her back."  It's as if the material, to her, is so easy that she doesn't bother to think. On Friday's, we do Zaccaro's Challenge Math which she LOVES.  No problems with sloppy mistakes.

 

Here's the question:  Looking at AoPS, I think that the approach will be a better fit for DD.  What I want to know is whether we need to start at the beginning.  DD is "half-way through pre-algebra" and doesn't want to "start over."  I hate to make a change that she will perceive as a failure.  Can one skip material in AoPS or does that create more problems than it solves?  Should we just persist with Lial's and make the change when we move into algebra?  (I have Foerster's and will likely be purchasing AoPS.) 

 

I would very much appreciate any suggestions or advice.  Thank you in advance!

 

 

[redsquirrel]

Well, off the top of my head I can think of a couple things. One thing is to have her take the Pre-A placement test and post test at AoPS on their website. It is on the same page as the Pre-A book. That might give you an idea of where she stands.  The second thing is to ask her to go through and do only the problems and challenge problems at the end of the sections. If she does well, then she can quickly move on to the next set of exercises.

 

The thing with AoPS is that if she hasn't done that type of math before it can be a bit of an adjustment. My son did AoPS pre-A after going through all of SM 6a&6b, which  many consider a pre-A program (a couple things are not addressed, but that wasn't major). It could be worthwhile for her to start at the beginning even though it might seem 'easy' at first. At least the pressure is off on learning new material and she can focus on learning a new method.

 

But, that is just us. We found AoPS to be transformative for my son's math skills. But, the early days (months, lol) of AoPS were sometimes rough. He had to learn a bunch of new skills, none of them math skills and all of them thinking and problem solving skills.

 

I am not exactly a math teacher so someone else might have a totally different take on it. I only have my experience with my one kid to go by.

[Pen]

We did some of Lials pre-A, and even started AoPS Intro Algebra, and then decided that we needed to start at the beginning of AoPS Pre-A, from the start because there were gaps to fill and the new system to get adjusted to.  I'd suggest starting at the beginning, explaining that it is considered a more challenging program than Lials and that she needs to think...and move as fast as she can through whatever is review.

[Luckymama]

Dd started from the beginning of AoPS PreAlgebra even though she had used a different PreAlgebra text the previous year. I told her it was a new way to approach math and that I wanted her to become accustomed to it before hitting new material.

[Julie of KY]

I'd start at the beginning. If the chapter is easy, you'll go quickly through it. If the chapter seems to be all review I might just jump to the review problems at the end of the chapter, though I'd be inclined to work through the sample problems in the chapter as well.

[EndOfOrdinary]

So, we are doing Pre-A this year.  My son completed Pre-A in a traditional text last year.  The problem with not starting at the beginning is that if your child has never been exposed to anything that looks like the discovery method, the meltdowns might be a bit overwhelming.  My son was the half-brain tied behind his back kind of kid as well.  AoPS was specifically because of this.  Though my son can add, when the problems in the first chapter asked for the answer to 1+2+3+4+5.....+111+112+113+114+115 he had a complete freak out.  He had never been asked to do anything he did not have a fairly immediate answer for.  Secondly, when he sat down to do the problem, he did not go about it in any way other than barge right though it with brute force by adding up each individual number.  It would have given him the answer, but it was taking forever and very frustrating for him.  The point of the chapter is to see the patterns 1+115 is the same as 2+114 is the same as 3+113.  You are creating a quick multiplication problem where there are 57 individual 116's.  I don't know if any of that made sense.  I am rambling. 

 

Second problem, AoPS wants kids to understand the foundations of what they do, not just algorithms.  Chapter 2 is exponents before Chapter 3 multiples so that kids understand prime factorization.  This is not a normal occurance in many books.  Fractions are in chapter 4 so that GCD and LCM have been covered, but they go with prime factorization in AoPS.  Often times the two subjects are split.  There is no one right way to teach math, but it is definitely in a different order with AoPS.

 

Anyway, the point is content is not what is hard about AoPS.  What is difficult is that the program asks you to view math and play with math. You are finding patterns in the foundations of numbers.  It is very empowering and quite a wonderful way to let a child's brain work.  However, many kids have never had that experience.  Beginning somewhere that is known material (like adding and counting in chapter 1) allows the stress to be lesser.

 

Just doing the problems at the end of the chapter might cause an equally exhausting stress freak out.  Many ask you to work with multiple variables and express the situation in a generalized equation.  If your child has not had experience with this (many programs do not teach it) you could find your daughter psyching herself out.  By reading through the chapter, you find the questions challenging, but not terrifying.  If she knows the material, the first few chapters will fly very quickly if you go through them.  Fair warning: Chapter 2 is crazy.  It then gets much better.  Don't worry about it.

[JoJosMom]

Thank you, ladies.  I appreciate all the advice.

 

Yesterday afternoon, following redsquirrel's suggestion above, I had DD try the challenge problems at the end of Chapter 1.  As predicted by EndOfOrdinary, her first reaction was :huh: .  I just said (after looking at the solutions manual-I am soo not an organic thinker), "Try ordering it in pairs."  DD, pause, "Oooooh!  I get it."  Breezed right through the section, with 2 minor hicuups (solved with same level of minor direction from me.).  So then I was the one :huh: . 

 

After the lesson, I asked what she thought about it.  She said "It's fun." (same reaction to Zaccaro).  Does she want to switch? "No, let's just finish Lial's." (Which she describes as "tedious.")  Again, me :huh: .

 

I think I'm still stumped.  My inclination is just to say we're changing curricula and just do it, BUT I am really trying to give her control over what I can (she's at that age) and Lial's is getting the job done.  We have no issues with comprehension (When she makes errors, I simply hand her the problem and say "look at this and tell me where you went wrong."  Invariably, she picks it right up.  But she still makes goofy mistakes.)  However, based upon what I know about my child and what I've now seen, I suspect she really is the kind of kid for whom AoPS was written.  Ack.  This parenting is hard work.  Maybe I should just send her to school and let the experts do all the thinking for me? :lol:

 

(I am constantly amazed at the knowledge and wisdom shared on these boards.  Truly, thank you to those who responded; I appreciate your help.)

[Julie of KY]

You might let her have the control of choosing to finish Lial's and then once per week (or a little everyday) add in some AoPS at mom's discretion. I do something similar with one of my boys.