Getting dd tested....gulp.

[Perogi]

I have finally made an appointment to have dd 10yo tested for comprehension issues. I have felt for a couple of years now that there are issues, but assumed they were exposing weaknesses in our homeschool and tried to handle them internally. For example, I started dd with CLE Reading in 4th grade because I felt she could use more practice with reading comprehension. Now we're nearing the end of 5th grade and I'm still seeing the same recurring issues.

 

Dh thinks she's fine, but my gut says otherwise. Now, she's my oldest, so I'm inexperienced and could be wrong, but there are things I think she should "get" that she doesn't. She's always been very, very bright but things are starting to fall apart a bit. I see her struggling with synthesizing information, making inferences, finding specific details in a passage of reading, understanding what is being asked of her in math word problems. Occasionally I will give her a verbal direction and be left scratching my head by what she thinks I meant. Her writing is decent but sometimes she struggles to get her thoughts on paper in an organized, logical way that will be clear to her reader.

 

We are going to see a speech and language pathologist in the next couple of weeks. I don't know what test she will be using specifically but it should test auditory, reading, and writing comprehension. I'm also considering administering the DORA at home.

 

I'm nervous. Honestly, what I want to hear is that I'm off base and she's totally fine for this stage of development. Or even that she's just a late bloomer and is switching into logic-stage thinking a little later than her peers. I don't want a "diagnosis". I'm afraid I won't trust it if I get one and that it will overwhelm me. I don't know what it would mean for us going forward.

 

This parenting and teaching gig is hard.

[wapiti]

FWIW, three of my kids showed various degrees of relative weakness in the areas of auditory reasoning and auditory comprehension in testing with the SLP.  No particular diagnosis resulted from the testing, just the helpful suggestions to work on making inferences and increasing vocabulary   Multiple SLPs have told me that weaknesses in making inferences can be improved.  

 

While the SLP testing might only clarify one corner of the puzzle, think positive:  the information that comes from the testing, whatever it might be, is likely to be helpful.

[Perogi]

Thank you for your encouragement. Could you elaborate on what you did to address the weakness?

 

I have, as I mentioned, had dd working through CLE Reading (which is very good!). I've also stopped more frequently when reading aloud to ask questions and have her make predictions. Further, I used 2 Glencoe lit guides so far this year alongside a read aloud. I am seeing small improvements but still don't feel confident that she is as skilled as she should be by grade 5.

[PeterPan]

Our SLP recommended to us some materials by Jean DeGaetano.  She has books on making inferences, comprehension, retrieval, all sorts of stuff.  They're issues that come up across labels, so it's a pretty common thing I guess to have to deal with.  Here's the publisher for the DeGaetano books.  http://www.greatideasforteaching.com/SearchResults.aspx?Search=degaetano

 

So have you thought about a psych eval?  It sounds like you're going through the steps (speech, psych, then auditory processing eval if there are discrepancies that indicate to look that way).  On the bright side, there are some labels she could get that AREN'T the end of the world (as if any are) that have a bunch of pro-active things you can change to help her do better.  So just keep telling yourself, that evals get you info to help her do better.  It's hard.  I told my dh I die a year every time one of my kids has another round of evals and testing.  But then I must take things a little hard.  Don't do that, but at least know you're normal.  :)

[Perogi]

Why a psych eval? I am seeing learning challenges but not anxiety/ocd/depression or anything like that.

[wapiti]

Why a psych eval? I am seeing learning challenges but not anxiety/ocd/depression or anything like that.

 

Psychs are the professionals who perform evaluations for learning challenges, including but not limited to IQ and achievement testing, and are the only professionals who can issue an official diagnosis from the DSM.  Sometimes they refer out for additional testing such as the testing you are doing with the SLP.

 

The testing includes measures of aspects such as working memory and processing speed, which are often involved when there are learning challenges.  More often, this testing is called "neuropsych" testing, whether it in fact is performed by a neuropsych.  We see an ed psych for this.

[PeterPan]

psychologist.  You're thinking psychiatrist.  A psychologist (neuropsychologist, etc.) can do testing and get to the root of what's going on.  The SLP will hone in on the language part.  Some of the testing will overlap.  Our psych offered to interpret ds's SLP testing and give more take based on it.  For an APD eval, the audiologists around here want both the SLP eval and the full psych(ological) eval.  Sure there could be anxiety or depression or something they'd find, but usually they're looking at very concrete stuff like processing speed and learning disabilities and brain function (working memory, what portions of the brain are affected, etc.).  For us the psych eval was AMAZINGLY helpful.

 

A psychiatrist (p-doc) is also an md, so he can do meds.  Not what we're talking about.

[Perogi]

Okay. I dont even know where I would find that. This SLP used to work for our school board (she now has a private practice) and she said usually the resource teachers would do the testing because the SLPs are too busy. I guess I'll see what I get from this and DORA and go from there.

 

I honestly don't even know what labels we might be facing.

[PeterPan]

Most peds keep referral lists, or ask around your homeschooling community.  Or pick some terms like adhd or dyslexia and google the label plus psychologist or neuropsychologist plus your state and see what pops up.  Or look for your state support orgs for those labels and see who tends to be speaking there or on the advisory boards there.  

 

If the school or whatever isn't doing a full psych eval, you may find yourself wanting that.  You'll get more breakdowns on how she processes, and then the psych can read the tea leaves and make suggestions.  Sometimes you can make a pretty fair guess about APD by looking at the discrepancies (big spans) between the scores.  The psych eval is one of those steps you feel weird taking but are really glad about once you're done.  (unless he's rabidly anti-homeschooling, etc. obviously)

[Perogi]

We had the first part of dd's assessment today. The SLP is using the CELF-5 and we got through about an hour's worth and then decided that dd was tiring and we'd be better to come back next week to finish up. The suspense is killing me....she wouldn't comment on anything at the end of today's appointment, other than telling dd she has a great vocabulary and keep reading. Once dd left to get her coat I asked if she was seeing some of the issues I had talked to her about and all she would say is that she has to wait to score it.

 

The first portion of the test was looking at a group of pictures or hearing a group of words and being able to identify which belong together. She did very, very well there, getting up above age 15 (the SLP told her because it was the first part of the test and dd seemed nervous so she wanted to boost her self-confidence).

 

Next came listening to instructions and following directions and she excelled there as well.

 

She then had to look at pictures and create sentences based on the picture with a given word or set of words. To begin with something like a family reading and playing games and the word was "reading", so she said, "Dad is reading the newspaper." Moving on to a picture of a boy doing his homework while his friends play outside and having to use the words "unless, able", so she said, "Unless the boy finishes his homework, he won't be able to go outside to play". There were a couple near the end that she just skipped and said she couldn't construct a sentence. In some that she did manage to come up with a sentence she'd start, stop, continue, change her mind, etc. Or just pause a really long time before being able to come up with something. But I have no idea if at that point she was working at, below, or above grade level.

 

Following that she had to repeat sentences after the SLP. She did quite well - thank goodness for dictation!! Near the end of that section she started to struggle. She was able to repeat the sentences but sometimes substituted other words. They retained the meaning of the sentence but weren't verbatim.

 

She had to define vocabulary...she struggled. She was given a word and then a sentence containing the word, like: "Little. Dad said there is little left in the bag." She had to say 2 things about the word. For that one she said, "Not much, a small amount," or something like that. As it went further she began to struggle. For example, pedestrian she defined as an old person, negotiation as a group of people. Committee as a group of people or a sponsor.

 

Finally, the SLP read 4 small paragraphs and asked her to answer questions. This is another area I saw a lot of struggle and it's exactly what I saw at home that has been concerning me for the past 2 years. 4 years of WWE and I still don't feel like I've been able to teach her how to identify the important elements of a narrative!!! Or how to read between the lines and kind of connect the dots or synthesize information. Some questions she answered adequately, some were just downright wrong, and there was a lot of struggle to put words to her thoughts.

 

We go back in a week to complete the test and then the SLP will score it and let me know the results. I admit that tonight I am feeling pretty down about it. Affirmed in that there are struggles exactly where I knew there were but realizing that I was really, really hoping I would find that I was wrong and was just expecting more from her than is appropriate at 10 years old. I don't know...I guess I have a shred of hope that the SLP will say she was within grade range. In each section she started strong and then in some started to struggle the further on it went...and I don't know how the test is structured. Although with listening to a paragraph and answering questions I think we're screwed lol

 

Unfortunately right now my reaction is to feel like I should have picked up on it sooner, sought outside help sooner, etc. I also am wondering if this is somehow caused by our homeschooling situation...Is there something I didn't do enough of? Would she have been better to be in school and surrounded by language and conversations all day long? She reads a lot and listens to a lot of audiobooks but that doesn't require interaction. She doesn't have to understand the book and converse with it. If she misses some sort of undertone she just keeps reading and gets what she gets. She doesn't have to respond to the book and try to put her thoughts into words. All things that she would have done more of naturally at school, simply in conversing with friends.

 

I really wish we could have gotten our results today. I am a big ball of stress waiting for the final verdict.

[OneStepAtATime]

We had the first part of dd's assessment today. The SLP is using the CELF-5 and we got through about an hour's worth and then decided that dd was tiring and we'd be better to come back next week to finish up. The suspense is killing me....she wouldn't comment on anything at the end of today's appointment, other than telling dd she has a great vocabulary and keep reading. Once dd left to get her coat I asked if she was seeing some of the issues I had talked to her about and all she would say is that she has to wait to score it.

 

The first portion of the test was looking at a group of pictures or hearing a group of words and being able to identify which belong together. She did very, very well there, getting up above age 15 (the SLP told her because it was the first part of the test and dd seemed nervous so she wanted to boost her self-confidence).

 

Next came listening to instructions and following directions and she excelled there as well.

 

She then had to look at pictures and create sentences based on the picture with a given word or set of words. To begin with something like a family reading and playing games and the word was "reading", so she said, "Dad is reading the newspaper." Moving on to a picture of a boy doing his homework while his friends play outside and having to use the words "unless, able", so she said, "Unless the boy finishes his homework, he won't be able to go outside to play". There were a couple near the end that she just skipped and said she couldn't construct a sentence. In some that she did manage to come up with a sentence she'd start, stop, continue, change her mind, etc. Or just pause a really long time before being able to come up with something. But I have no idea if at that point she was working at, below, or above grade level.

 

Following that she had to repeat sentences after the SLP. She did quite well - thank goodness for dictation!! Near the end of that section she started to struggle. She was able to repeat the sentences but sometimes substituted other words. They retained the meaning of the sentence but weren't verbatim.

 

She had to define vocabulary...she struggled. She was given a word and then a sentence containing the word, like: "Little. Dad said there is little left in the bag." She had to say 2 things about the word. For that one she said, "Not much, a small amount," or something like that. As it went further she began to struggle. For example, pedestrian she defined as an old person, negotiation as a group of people. Committee as a group of people or a sponsor.

 

Finally, the SLP read 4 small paragraphs and asked her to answer questions. This is another area I saw a lot of struggle and it's exactly what I saw at home that has been concerning me for the past 2 years. 4 years of WWE and I still don't feel like I've been able to teach her how to identify the important elements of a narrative!!! Or how to read between the lines and kind of connect the dots or synthesize information. Some questions she answered adequately, some were just downright wrong, and there was a lot of struggle to put words to her thoughts.

 

We go back in a week to complete the test and then the SLP will score it and let me know the results. I admit that tonight I am feeling pretty down about it. Affirmed in that there are struggles exactly where I knew there were but realizing that I was really, really hoping I would find that I was wrong and was just expecting more from her than is appropriate at 10 years old. I don't know...I guess I have a shred of hope that the SLP will say she was within grade range. In each section she started strong and then in some started to struggle the further on it went...and I don't know how the test is structured. Although with listening to a paragraph and answering questions I think we're screwed lol

 

Unfortunately right now my reaction is to feel like I should have picked up on it sooner, sought outside help sooner, etc. I also am wondering if this is somehow caused by our homeschooling situation...Is there something I didn't do enough of? Would she have been better to be in school and surrounded by language and conversations all day long? She reads a lot and listens to a lot of audiobooks but that doesn't require interaction. She doesn't have to understand the book and converse with it. If she misses some sort of undertone she just keeps reading and gets what she gets. She doesn't have to respond to the book and try to put her thoughts into words. All things that she would have done more of naturally at school, simply in conversing with friends.

 

I really wish we could have gotten our results today. I am a big ball of stress waiting for the final verdict.

First, big hugs.   :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: BTDT

 

As many have said, the waiting is the hardest part.  And NO homeschooling did not cause these issues.  If anything, homeschooling probably kept her functioning far more effectively than if she had been one of many in a classroom full of tons of kids at many different levels of learning with a teacher that is overworked and has virtually no time for any one on one instruction.  And conversing with a friend or a group of peers is a LOT different than analyzing literary works and answering questions about paragraphs.  

 

Truly, I wish you had results today, too.  But please don't feel like you failed your child.  You are seeking answers and will hopefully get some.  You have worked hard to provide your child with a good education.  Whatever the results of these evals, you have given her a great foundation.  Hopefully, the evals will give you a good place to start to address the weaknesses and will also hopefully help you better identify and tap into her strengths.  Best wishes.   

[PeterPan]

:grouphug:   :grouphug:  Ditto the hugs.  I told my dh every time I listen to testing on my ds, I die another year.  Like seriously, you just literally sit there and die internally, thinking this shouldn't be happening, it shouldn't be like this.  No you did not catch it sooner because she's so bright that her strengths were covering.  You've done nothing wrong and you're there NOW getting the evals.  That's what matters.  

 

Take very good care of yourself.  Go download the new SEGA Taxi app that is free for the iPad (or was yesterday) and go play it a few hours.  The thing is an utter riot and might cheer you up.  I started playing it last night while I was supposed to be winding down in bed (oops!) and I was cackling so hard I couldn't contain myself.  Poor dh trying to sleep beside me...   :lol: 

 

I know it's not fun, and it sounds like maybe you'll end up wanting a psych eval, which also won't be fun.  The END will be good though.  The end will be peace.  You'll get through this and come to the other side.  Also, I think you'll be surprised how positively the SLP views your dc.  When our SLP does testing on ds (he's been getting therapy since 2, so he gets something a couple times a year to track development of this and that), I listen and DIE at all the things that aren't working, and she comes back with this more whole, healthy perspective.  Your child speaks and has all sorts of language skills (some kids with problems like apraxia don't), so she'll have seen MUCH worse and have consoling things to say.  Seriously.  But it is physically really hard on you, as a woman, to listen to all that.  Take a friend along to drive you home and go out to lunch together after you get the results.  

 

Keep us posted on how it goes.  The SLP sounds like she's really digging in, so that's fabulous.  Hopefully she has very helpful results for you.  :) 

[Jennifer-72]

It is always hard to wait for those results! One thing to keep in mind about those assessment, most SLP tests are for a wide age range and they generally keep going in a test till the child ceilings out, so not everything you see her having trouble with may necessarily be for her age. That is also why it is hard for the SLP to say much before she scores it and looks at the norms.

[Perogi]

Thank you very much for your encouragement, OneStep and OhE. It's nice to be in good company with people who have been here before and understand. As much as he tries, dh doesn't ;P He is very much of the opinion that "it is what it is, it'll all be fine" and doesn't worry about it. We did have a good chat last night wherein he pointed out that he too struggles with reading comprehension and expressing himself clearly and succinctly and yet, he's led a successful and happy life. Once he started drawing the connections between himself and dd I could see it. It was encouraging.

 

I did feel like I lost a year off my life! Wowzers. The reality is that I just don't want dd to have any problems....right? I don't want her to have a diagnosis, I don't want to make accomodations or do therapies. She has always been very, very bright and so this is difficult to accept. Her younger sister is nowhere near as academic and I feel like it would be an easier pill to swallow if it were her. I hope that doesn't sound awful. Instead, I see the little sister surpassing the older in matters of comprehension. She just finished a book and I asked her a bunch of questions and she could remember everything, even down to little details, and give me the exact answers I was looking for. The other night we watched a movie (What Katy Did) and older dd totally missed some of the undercurrents that little dd completely understood.

 

I will definitely post an update...

[PeterPan]

Sometimes when you can just say those things and finally admit them, you're able to let them go.  

 

You're doing great.  :)