Fact practice, drill, and review in CLE vs. BJU math

[jer2911mom]

If you have used both programs, is BJU's fact practice, drill, and review sufficient on its own?  I love how CLE schedules the facts practice, skip counting practice, speed drills, and review for you.  It is painless and my dd has learned her facts well and does well with computation.  I prefer the conceptual teaching in BJU, though.  I am trying to figure out what to do for my dd for 4th grade and also for my rising 1st grader next year.  I'm wondering if I should use CLE first to make sure my younger dd knows her facts well and then switch?  CLE 1st grade was actually conceptual and I thought did a good job with base 10 work.  The conceptual teaching started tapering toward the end of 2nd grade.  Is there merit to using CLE for a few years before using BJU in order to get the facts down?  I know BJU has oral facts practice in each lesson and you can print speed drills from the CD, but with those not being scheduled, I have a feeling they'll fall through the cracks.  I know there is some facts practice in the review book on the back page of the review page, as well as additional review.  Is that practice and review sufficient?  I feel like BJU review may be fine but I'm more concerned about the facts practice.  If you use BJU, have you had to supplement for facts practice?

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[Guest]

We used K, 2nd, and 7th last time round. I have also used CLE 100-600.

 

CLE wins hands down for fact practice.

 

BJU offers all these convoluted "stratagies" {it's late. spelling ability function is down. :)} for the facts. It confused and frustrated my youngers who were coming off R&S and CLE. The fact practice is not so much in the reviews. Maybe a few every couple days, IIRC. We used the DVDs and the fact practice was done dialy there. If you aren't, well, make a note to yourself or highlight.

 

It was difficult to go from CLE to BJU. The way the math is taught is too different, too much too young. We switched back in January and everyone is happy. Either will do a fine job of preparing your kids for higher math. 

[Guest]

double post. no idea how that happened.

[jer2911mom]

Thanks, Paradox5!   Can you pls. elaborate a little on what made the strategies convoluted?  When you say the BJU math is too much too young, do you mean the conceptual teaching is too much too young?  Are you adding any conceptual teaching to CLE?
 

Thanks,

Kathy

[PeterPan]

Kathy, math is totally individual.  If what you did with CLE then BJU fit your older dc well, maybe it will fit your next as well.  If you get into the BJU and want more fact practice, you could buy CLE and only use those portions.  Runs in my mind when we did it it was in the back as well as with some instructions for flashcards and a place to graph your results each day.  You could in theory do just that.  You could add in something like the Abeka speed drills books or an app.  You could do CLE during the summer.  You could go to MUS' website and print extra pages.  You could generate your own.  

 

Back when we used the BJU elementary math, it was before the versions with the cd in the tm, hehe.  They had extra books, and no the drill/review wasn't like CLE's.  I'm sorry that's not helpful.  Math is always the trickiest thing to figure out.  Just use your best judgment.  

[jer2911mom]

Thanks, OhElizabeth.  Yes, math is definitely the trickiest thing to figure out!  It's hard to figure out what to do when there isn't one program that does what you're looking for.  I'm tired of burning my dd out in math while trying to find the right blend of conceptual teaching and computation/facts practice and drill.  We just really hit a wall with CLE this semester as far as the lack of conceptual teaching and I'm scrambling to figure out how to go forward next year.  For now, we are doing a MM/MUS combo and that is hitting the conceptual teaching we need.  Since MUS can usually be done one day a week, we might could use that for our review/practice.  We are running into some issues with things being taught differently or at different times, though, so I do prefer one program to avoid confusion.  We may try BJU this fall and see how it goes.  I do have the remaining CLE 300 books I could use for drills if I need them.  It kind of seems like a waste of a LU to use them just for that.  I do like the graphing they tie into the drill work, though.  I have heard R&S has good drill books, too.

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[PeterPan]

LOL, that's quite the mix!  It does sound like BJU would simplify things for you.  I LOVE what they're doing with the new editions of the BJU math, so don't take anything I said as less than a strong statement of confidence.  In general the amounts are probably going to work for most kids.  My dd has some SN, so we had to bend over backwards (which is of course why we tried so much over the years!).  You don't seem to have that issue.  Have you seen their full chapter samples on the BJUP website?  To me the one bummer is they don't put the cd samples on there, so you have no clue about all the extra goodies on there.  With the english, for instance, it's mind-boggling all the stuff they add and they don't even promote it!  Go figure.  

 

 

[jer2911mom]

I've seen the samples and have actually ordered and returned the Math 3 this year.  At that time my dh thought we should finish out the year with the CLE/MM combo.  The problem was that we started hitting the teaching in CLE faster than MM, and I wanted to do MM in order so we would get the right foundation in that program.  So we had to pause the CLE.  

 

I'm a bit concerned that the BJU is overcomplicated in its presentation, with a few too many examples.  I don't like having to cut things out.  My dd doesn't need a lot of extra teaching to get the concept.  She just needs more practice afterward to keep things fresh.

 

We did order the BJU Eng and Spelling at that time and kept those.  My dd really enjoys those!  My BJU Eng CD only has one set of pages on there (not any of the ones I need) and I've written to them about that and they said they are about to do a rewrite on those and plan to put the TM appendix pages on the CD, so that will be helpful.  But the spelling CD is very helpful.  And I've heard what's on the math CD and it sounds great.

[alisoncooks]

We really like BJU math at this house!

I'll be honest, though... I have no need for the teacher's manuals in the early grades.  They are pretty worthless in a homeschool setting, IMO, and I've barely glanced at them. 

 

(I wish BJU would release a HOMESCHOOL guide -- with pacing, teaching strategies, and instructions for presenting drill.)

 

I don't find anything convoluted about BJU math. (Granted: we've only used 1 and 2 and I've got 3 on hand.)  We also came at it from using Singapore Math & MiF; BJU was like a simplified breath of fresh air.  Very direct and easy to teach, while still presenting the material in conceptual ways.  I also think the material is age-appropriate.  And we love the review each day that's included on the workbook page (we had looked at Horizons b/c of the daily review... but it moves SOOOO fast, too fast for us!)

 

The way I use BJU is use the front part of the workbook page to TEACH from.  We do those problems together; I scribe for DD.  Then we flip to the back and DD does that work independently (while I sit nearby, available for questions).

 

Since I do not use the guide, I approach drill as a totally separate "subject."  We do math fact apps on the iPad or things like "2+2 does not equal 5."

[CindyK]

We did CLE originally which I really liked, but because my 1st grade dd not enjoying math very much we switched. (It also took her way to long to do)  This year we started out with McRuffy Math but I didn't care for it.  After 4 weeks of McRuffy I switched over my now 2nd and 4th grader to BJU Math and we LOVE it!  They do X-tra math online for facts review.   For my 4th grader he does the xtra math but also his older sister does multiplication flashcards with him.  I think x-tra math is really all that is needed.  It works great for fact review!  HTH!

 

[PeterPan]

We really like BJU math at this house!

I'll be honest, though... I have no need for the teacher's manuals in the early grades.  They are pretty worthless in a homeschool setting, IMO, and I've barely glanced at them. 

 

(I wish BJU would release a HOMESCHOOL guide -- with pacing, teaching strategies, and instructions for presenting drill.)

 

I don't find anything convoluted about BJU math. (Granted: we've only used 1 and 2 and I've got 3 on hand.)  We also came at it from using Singapore Math & MiF; BJU was like a simplified breath of fresh air.  Very direct and easy to teach, while still presenting the material in conceptual ways.  I also think the material is age-appropriate.  And we love the review each day that's included on the workbook page (we had looked at Horizons b/c of the daily review... but it moves SOOOO fast, too fast for us!)

 

The way I use BJU is use the front part of the workbook page to TEACH from.  We do those problems together; I scribe for DD.  Then we flip to the back and DD does that work independently (while I sit nearby, available for questions).

 

Since I do not use the guide, I approach drill as a totally separate "subject."  We do math fact apps on the iPad or things like "2+2 does not equal 5."

I came to BJU from RightStart, so like you I was happy that I could continue the conceptual approach and manipulatives we were used to in the framework of the BJU.  I think in making a blanket statement though you might cause people to inadvertently *miss* what's going on in the BJU tms.  As you go up in the grade levels, they're going to spend more and more time checking the *thought process* of the kids in those examples in the scripted lesson.  They *anticipate* the errors kids usually make and are able to address them during instruction. Also, much of the review is built into the warm-up of the lesson.  There used to be this constant refrain of people complaining BJU didn't have enough drill, didn't have enough drill, till people started getting challenged on the fact that they were SKIPPING the tm with the drill in it!  So while it works out GREAT for one user, it might be disaster for another.  It's good to have the material there and have that *option*. 

 

Btw, when I talked with my teacher friends years ago about how they were using it (old edition BJU), they were doing the full lesson, front and back of the student work text, AND assigning one of the additional pages of work that BJU sold.  I assume that material is on the cd now in the tm.  So they assume the average student is going to need those extra things.  

 

For the op, I sympathize with you on the manips.  Feel free to substitute rule things, mercy.  Or do it ahead during the summer and save everything in a bag.  I don't recall us using any of their manips for the 4th grade texts on, but then we already had a pile of manips.  That may be a thing you're about to bust out of and move past.

 

As for the homeschool-specific tms, they used to have them.

[alisoncooks]

I think in making a blanket statement though you might cause people to inadvertently *miss* what's going on in the BJU tms.  As you go up in the grade levels, they're going to spend more and more time checking the *thought process* of the kids in those examples in the scripted lesson.  They *anticipate* the errors kids usually make and are able to address them during instruction. Also, much of the review is built into the warm-up of the lesson.  There used to be this constant refrain of people complaining BJU didn't have enough drill, didn't have enough drill, till people started getting challenged on the fact that they were SKIPPING the tm with the drill in it!  So while it works out GREAT for one user, it might be disaster for another.  It's good to have the material there and have that *option*. 

This is true.  And my experience has been only with the 1st-3rd grade manuals...  I actually *do* anticipate needing the guides more as we move into the higher levels.  (And I do purchase the manuals, to have on hand just in case... but I've not yet needed them or the CD-rom.)

 

Btw, when I talked with my teacher friends years ago about how they were using it (old edition BJU), they were doing the full lesson, front and back of the student work text, AND assigning one of the additional pages of work that BJU sold.  I assume that material is on the cd now in the tm.  So they assume the average student is going to need those extra things.  

Wow.  That's a lot of work!  (or, at least, it would be for my DD.)  This sounds similar to how the dvd lessons are taught...  but I have no experience with them other than the few samples I've watched.

 

I guess I should also make the disclaimer that I buy the HIG from Singapore and read through it before teaching concepts.  I really like how SM teaches... but not how the overall program works (my kid needed more review scheduled in).  So, we play games and use manipulatives the "SM-way" and then proceed to work through workbook pages.  

[jer2911mom]

We really like BJU math at this house!

I'll be honest, though... I have no need for the teacher's manuals in the early grades.  They are pretty worthless in a homeschool setting, IMO, and I've barely glanced at them. 

 

(I wish BJU would release a HOMESCHOOL guide -- with pacing, teaching strategies, and instructions for presenting drill.)

 

I don't find anything convoluted about BJU math. (Granted: we've only used 1 and 2 and I've got 3 on hand.)  We also came at it from using Singapore Math & MiF; BJU was like a simplified breath of fresh air.  Very direct and easy to teach, while still presenting the material in conceptual ways.  I also think the material is age-appropriate.  And we love the review each day that's included on the workbook page (we had looked at Horizons b/c of the daily review... but it moves SOOOO fast, too fast for us!)

 

The way I use BJU is use the front part of the workbook page to TEACH from.  We do those problems together; I scribe for DD.  Then we flip to the back and DD does that work independently (while I sit nearby, available for questions).

 

Since I do not use the guide, I approach drill as a totally separate "subject."  We do math fact apps on the iPad or things like "2+2 does not equal 5."

 

Thanks, Alison!  I do wish BJU would release a homeschool guide.  The teaching in the TM just seems to be excessive for homeschooling.  Can you pls. elaborate on BJU vs. your experience with Singapore and MIF?  I'm wondering how similar BJU is to the Singapore approach and where it differs.

 

Thanks for explaining how you use BJU.  I've wondered how much would be missed just teaching from the workbook.  I'd probably do some of the TM at first to see what's there, and then try to make it fit my dd's actual needs.  

 

Do you use the review book?

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

We did CLE originally which I really liked, but because my 1st grade dd not enjoying math very much we switched. (It also took her way to long to do)  This year we started out with McRuffy Math but I didn't care for it.  After 4 weeks of McRuffy I switched over my now 2nd and 4th grader to BJU Math and we LOVE it!  They do X-tra math online for facts review.   For my 4th grader he does the xtra math but also his older sister does multiplication flashcards with him.  I think x-tra math is really all that is needed.  It works great for fact review!  HTH!

 

Thanks, Cindy!  What do you love about BJU compared to CLE?  Do you teach the whole lesson from the TM?  Do you use the Reviews book?

 

I'm glad to know that xtra math works well for facts review with BJU.

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

I came to BJU from RightStart, so like you I was happy that I could continue the conceptual approach and manipulatives we were used to in the framework of the BJU.  I think in making a blanket statement though you might cause people to inadvertently *miss* what's going on in the BJU tms.  As you go up in the grade levels, they're going to spend more and more time checking the *thought process* of the kids in those examples in the scripted lesson.  They *anticipate* the errors kids usually make and are able to address them during instruction. Also, much of the review is built into the warm-up of the lesson.  There used to be this constant refrain of people complaining BJU didn't have enough drill, didn't have enough drill, till people started getting challenged on the fact that they were SKIPPING the tm with the drill in it!  So while it works out GREAT for one user, it might be disaster for another.  It's good to have the material there and have that *option*. 

 

Btw, when I talked with my teacher friends years ago about how they were using it (old edition BJU), they were doing the full lesson, front and back of the student work text, AND assigning one of the additional pages of work that BJU sold.  I assume that material is on the cd now in the tm.  So they assume the average student is going to need those extra things.  

 

For the op, I sympathize with you on the manips.  Feel free to substitute rule things, mercy.  Or do it ahead during the summer and save everything in a bag.  I don't recall us using any of their manips for the 4th grade texts on, but then we already had a pile of manips.  That may be a thing you're about to bust out of and move past.

 

As for the homeschool-specific tms, they used to have them.

 

Thanks, OhElizabeth!  I really appreciate your clarifying what is going on in the TMs.  That is very helpful information.  I appreciate that BJU does this.

 

They still have the Reviews books at the lower levels, and from what I understand that is where you get review of previous concepts and more facts practice (especially on the back review page that corresponds to that lesson).

 

I plan to use as many real manips as I can, because I already have a lot here and it's silly to punch things out when I have the real thing.  Thanks for the tips there. : )

 

A friend showed me one of the old homeschool-specific TMs.  I like the color in the new TMs and everything, but it would be nice to have one that cut to the chase for homeschoolers.  I'm sure that's a lot for them to maintain.

 

Thanks again,

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

I guess I should also make the disclaimer that I buy the HIG from Singapore and read through it before teaching concepts.  I really like how SM teaches... but not how the overall program works (my kid needed more review scheduled in).  So, we play games and use manipulatives the "SM-way" and then proceed to work through workbook pages.  

 

Thanks, Alison.  This is good to know!  I have the HIGs for levels 1 and 2 here and could reference those as well.

 

Kathy

[alisoncooks]

Thanks, Alison!  I do wish BJU would release a homeschool guide.  The teaching in the TM just seems to be excessive for homeschooling.  Can you pls. elaborate on BJU vs. your experience with Singapore and MIF?  I'm wondering how similar BJU is to the Singapore approach and where it differs.

 

To be honest, I LOVED Singapore at first.  I thought the way info was presented in the HIG was brilliant (would love a "HIG" for BJU).  My DD enjoyed the games, the hands-on activities --- they were clever.  However, the mastery approach wasn't for us (SM would teach add'n for a unit, then "abandon" it for a looong while before coming back around to it... plus there was the "you should be doing drill on your own" sentiment that I could never remember.  We needed more scheduled review. :o)

 

So we switched to MiF just to finish up the grade level.  We actually quite liked the MiF workbooks but they were similar to SM.  MiF's textbooks are very school-y though (and the teacher's guides are also super school-oriented and expensive, unless you find them used). 

 

BJU --in the way that we use it-- just gets done.  No tears.  I've considered moving to another program... but DD loves it, won't hear of switching.  I think (especially in grades 1-2) SM and MiF have more challenging word problems.  Now, at the end of Grade 2, BJU is starting to catch up in that regard; I can't say on the higher grades.

 

BJU uses many of the strategies/terminologies that we learned with SM.  It doesn't just teach the algorithm of "carrying the one" for 2-digit addition; it has you practice with place value and understanding that you're making a 10 and moving it to the 10s place.   It incrementally builds to concepts (as does MiF/SM).  We're about to start multiplication and it starts it very gently, which I appreciate.

[PeterPan]

Thanks, OhElizabeth!  I really appreciate your clarifying what is going on in the TMs.  That is very helpful information.  I appreciate that BJU does this.

 

They still have the Reviews books at the lower levels, and from what I understand that is where you get review of previous concepts and more facts practice (especially on the back review page that corresponds to that lesson).

 

I plan to use as many real manips as I can, because I already have a lot here and it's silly to punch things out when I have the real thing.  Thanks for the tips there. : )

 

A friend showed me one of the old homeschool-specific TMs.  I like the color in the new TMs and everything, but it would be nice to have one that cut to the chase for homeschoolers.  I'm sure that's a lot for them to maintain.

 

Thanks again,

Kathy

Oh don't worry, tms from BJU (and some other publishers, like Shurley, to be fair) drive me batty too.  If it's any consolation, it's only a few years where they're so crazy and psychedelic like that.  In 7th they switch over and streamline.  Of course about that time parents start to realize they'd like some help teaching, lol.  Especially in the math though, they're going to slim down and eliminate that by gr 7.  You're not the only one to go crazy with them, and for me it just took some deep breaths and looking over things ahead of time to make a game plan and know what sections were important for my dc, what maybe was skippable or something I'd gloss.  Most teachers will make little marks with pencil in the margins, use paperclips or post-it notes to mark what they want to hit.  You might find it helpful to use some kind of bookmark (index card, whatever) as you teach to hold your spot so when you go to do something with the manips or a whiteboard you can come back to your spot quickly.

[CindyK]

Thanks, Cindy!  What do you love about BJU compared to CLE?  Do you teach the whole lesson from the TM?  Do you use the Reviews book?

 

I'm glad to know that xtra math works well for facts review with BJU.

 

Thanks,

Kathy

 

I thought CLE was very thorough andI thought I would stay with it all the way.  (My older sons, now graduated, had used Saxon and I said never again!  ;))  I also thought I would always need spiral with my kids.  However, when my little first grade dd started disliking school because of math I knew I had to look elsewhere.  BJU is colorful whereas CLE isn't.  I can tell my kids react better towards it for that reason alone.  They also love the little stories at the beginning of each chapter.   BJU is all in one book whereas we kept changing books with CLE.  Changing books was novel at first but that wore off.  Maybe the biggest change is that BJU is more of a Mastery math but does have a gentle spiral.  I think with CLE and Saxon the spiral was too much for my kids.  They thrive better on Mastery and so does mom! (Who would have thought) Too much of a Spiral bogged them down.

 

I think I would always want to have the TM but I don't always use it.  I love having it to see how they recommend teaching but I don't always feel the need for it.  I don't really "love" the TM.  I wish it were more user friendly but I do love the student books!

 

We still have our flash cards from CLE so I do use them with my 4th grader for multiplication.  Because I'm afraid they would fall by the wayside if I used them I have my 10th grade daughter do flashcards with him 4x a week.  However, xtra math works great!  If I had to choose between xtra math and flashcards I would do xtra math.  There are no distracting games or anything just plain fact review.

 

I haven't used any of the review sheets on the CD.  However, they might be great for reviewing in the summer if needed...

Cindy

[Jess4879]

I have never used CLE, so I can't compare, but we are using BJU 2 with my middle kiddo this year and we are both loving it.  I bought the entire kit, but when I ordered level 3 for this fall, I only got the TG and student workbook.  We haven't used the review book or the tests once.  This might change with the higher levels, but I definitely don't see needing them for grade 3 either. 

 

I really like the TG, but I am not a mathy person, so I need that hand holding.  I find the TG very well laid out and easy to read from without sounding stilted and awkward.  We skip the math fact review in favor of Reflex Math.  It is just more fun than flashcards.  For the lesson, I typically teach the entire thing, unless it's something I know my kiddo grasps.  I, personally, wouldn't skip the TG.  I think the entire meat of the program is in the TG.  But that's just us.  This is only our first year using it, but I haven't had an issue with converting it for home use.  There are a couple references to having students stand up or something, but we just use manipulatives and work the example. 

[PeterPan]

 We skip the math fact review in favor of Reflex Math.  

Ooo, that looks fun!  Thanks for sharing!  :)

[jer2911mom]

To be honest, I LOVED Singapore at first.  I thought the way info was presented in the HIG was brilliant (would love a "HIG" for BJU).  My DD enjoyed the games, the hands-on activities --- they were clever.  However, the mastery approach wasn't for us (SM would teach add'n for a unit, then "abandon" it for a looong while before coming back around to it... plus there was the "you should be doing drill on your own" sentiment that I could never remember.  We needed more scheduled review. :o)

 

So we switched to MiF just to finish up the grade level.  We actually quite liked the MiF workbooks but they were similar to SM.  MiF's textbooks are very school-y though (and the teacher's guides are also super school-oriented and expensive, unless you find them used). 

 

BJU --in the way that we use it-- just gets done.  No tears.  I've considered moving to another program... but DD loves it, won't hear of switching.  I think (especially in grades 1-2) SM and MiF have more challenging word problems.  Now, at the end of Grade 2, BJU is starting to catch up in that regard; I can't say on the higher grades.

 

BJU uses many of the strategies/terminologies that we learned with SM.  It doesn't just teach the algorithm of "carrying the one" for 2-digit addition; it has you practice with place value and understanding that you're making a 10 and moving it to the 10s place.   It incrementally builds to concepts (as does MiF/SM).  We're about to start multiplication and it starts it very gently, which I appreciate.

 

Thanks, Alison!  We used a semester of MIF as well and I liked the textbook/workbook, too, but felt the same way about the TM.  We needed more scheduled review and facts practice with both Singapore and MIF as well.

 

That's good to know that SM and MIF have more challenging word problems in the early grades.  Probably adding the CWP or Process Skills books would help in that regard.

 

I'm glad to know BJU uses many of the strategies that SM does.  Does it teach the number bond concept in some form?  Is there much in the way of mental math compared to Singapore? I've heard that BJU does include a bit on bar modeling/the whole/parts concept in late elementary/6th grades.

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

Oh don't worry, tms from BJU (and some other publishers, like Shurley, to be fair) drive me batty too.  If it's any consolation, it's only a few years where they're so crazy and psychedelic like that.  In 7th they switch over and streamline.  Of course about that time parents start to realize they'd like some help teaching, lol.  Especially in the math though, they're going to slim down and eliminate that by gr 7.  You're not the only one to go crazy with them, and for me it just took some deep breaths and looking over things ahead of time to make a game plan and know what sections were important for my dc, what maybe was skippable or something I'd gloss.  Most teachers will make little marks with pencil in the margins, use paperclips or post-it notes to mark what they want to hit.  You might find it helpful to use some kind of bookmark (index card, whatever) as you teach to hold your spot so when you go to do something with the manips or a whiteboard you can come back to your spot quickly.

 

Thanks, OhElizabeth.  It's nice to know it streamlines in 7th.  I agree, it almost should be flipped, lol.

 

I guess I'll just have to try BJU as written and then see how hard it is to get a game plan/cut.  I definitely prefer open-and-go materials, but I'm getting better at cutting on the fly as we use BJU Eng and Spelling.  Maybe that will get me in the right frame of mind for the math.  Thanks for the tips in that regard. :)

 

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

I thought CLE was very thorough andI thought I would stay with it all the way.  (My older sons, now graduated, had used Saxon and I said never again!  ;))  I also thought I would always need spiral with my kids.  However, when my little first grade dd started disliking school because of math I knew I had to look elsewhere.  BJU is colorful whereas CLE isn't.  I can tell my kids react better towards it for that reason alone.  They also love the little stories at the beginning of each chapter.   BJU is all in one book whereas we kept changing books with CLE.  Changing books was novel at first but that wore off.  Maybe the biggest change is that BJU is more of a Mastery math but does have a gentle spiral.  I think with CLE and Saxon the spiral was too much for my kids.  They thrive better on Mastery and so does mom! (Who would have thought) Too much of a Spiral bogged them down.

 

I think I would always want to have the TM but I don't always use it.  I love having it to see how they recommend teaching but I don't always feel the need for it.  I don't really "love" the TM.  I wish it were more user friendly but I do love the student books!

 

We still have our flash cards from CLE so I do use them with my 4th grader for multiplication.  Because I'm afraid they would fall by the wayside if I used them I have my 10th grade daughter do flashcards with him 4x a week.  However, xtra math works great!  If I had to choose between xtra math and flashcards I would do xtra math.  There are no distracting games or anything just plain fact review.

 

I haven't used any of the review sheets on the CD.  However, they might be great for reviewing in the summer if needed...

Cindy

 

Thanks, Cindy!  I thought CLE was very thorough for awhile, too.  I've kind of been wondering lately if there is a place for spiral early on and then a move to mastery makes sense.  But it's nice to know that you consider BJU to have a gentle spiral.  That might make it more of a fit early on.  I'm really struggling to figure out what exactly benefited my older dd while using CLE and at what point it became detrimental, and whether or not my younger dd would get to the same place computation and fact-wise if she used BJU.  At the same time, I think BJU would have her in a better place conceptually.  I don't have the benefit of hindsight to know what is important in these early years.

 

I would probably use my CLE flashcards with my younger dd as well.  Their addition and subtraction system is really good. 

 

Thanks for sharing your BJU/CLE thoughts. :)

 

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

I have never used CLE, so I can't compare, but we are using BJU 2 with my middle kiddo this year and we are both loving it.  I bought the entire kit, but when I ordered level 3 for this fall, I only got the TG and student workbook.  We haven't used the review book or the tests once.  This might change with the higher levels, but I definitely don't see needing them for grade 3 either. 

 

I really like the TG, but I am not a mathy person, so I need that hand holding.  I find the TG very well laid out and easy to read from without sounding stilted and awkward.  We skip the math fact review in favor of Reflex Math.  It is just more fun than flashcards.  For the lesson, I typically teach the entire thing, unless it's something I know my kiddo grasps.  I, personally, wouldn't skip the TG.  I think the entire meat of the program is in the TG.  But that's just us.  This is only our first year using it, but I haven't had an issue with converting it for home use.  There are a couple references to having students stand up or something, but we just use manipulatives and work the example. 

 

Thank you, Jess4879!  I don't think we'd use the tests, either.  I'm glad to know you like the TG and how you use it.  Since you use it in full, it's good to know you think the entire meat of the program is in there.  That's how I've felt about the Singapore HIGs, so I understand what you mean there.  I'm also glad to know you haven't had an issue with converting it for homeschooling purposes.  Thanks so much for your input!

 

Kathy