Has anyone use Khan Academy as their primary math program?

[Tardis Girl]

My kids have been using Khan and really like it. I was reading something from Sal (founder) and it got me thinking that maybe I could use Khan as the MAIN math program and then supplement with other stuff. What other stuff? IDK... maybe LOF, PCM, and so on. RS Math Games? 

 

I'm a bit scattered on the whole thing. I guess first of all, if your kids use Khan as their primary math, what does that look like on a daily basis? Are they more self-directed, or do you tell them what areas to work on, etc.? What other resources do you add in? What do you see happening in the future? 

 

Thanks!

[Joshin]

I do with one child. Khan is excellent, but as you progress in math it becomes weak in the concepts, depending on drills and memorization of algorithms as opposed to understanding the concepts of why an operation works. Sal is slowly reworking the older videos to include more conceptual understanding, so in time this may no longer be an issue.

 

 

How we do it:

Set up a coaches account, then set up the student accounts under it. Use the grade level skills maps or the common core map to determine what to work on next. I assign the next thing to them, using the coaching tools. I use the deadline option when assigning so they work on things in a logical order. I also change the settings so they have to get 10 problems right to move on.

 

When they sit down to work, I insist they watch the video first, then do the problems. If they are still missing problems after the video, I explain it with the concepts, or we watch a video from youtube or on Mathtv.com to further explain it. After the videos,  do the problems until they pass the level. Mastery Tests are the only way to master an operation, so they can do those at any time after the normal math work is done.

 

DS13 used Khan almost exclusively for a year and a half (through the 6th grade year on the Khan website). He opted to take algebra this year through our district's virtual academy, and thus far he has the highest grade in the class, so it didn't seem to hurt him. My youngest is using Khan-only at his request. He's advanced in math, and quickly gets bored with the pace of other programs. I'll likely move him into AOPS when he's ready for algebra in a year or two.

[sunnyday]

I have been seeing some criticisms of Khan lately -- both of the actual content and of the concept that a teacher on a screen could replace in-person instruction. It seems like a nice resource but I'd be pretty leery of relying on it completely.

 

This Stanford professor thinks it's mostly great and probably wouldn't harm super strong math students but could potentially damage ones for whom math doesn't come so easily; he doesn't think it can or should drastically alter math instruction in this country: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-keith-devlin/khan-academy-good-bad-or-_b_1345925.html

 

This math professor blogger thinks it's an interesting way to demonstrate the mechanical processes in math, but it is not a substitute for a course in mathematics: http://chronicle.com/blognetwork/castingoutnines/2012/07/03/the-trouble-with-khan-academy/

 

Also per that blogger, apparently Khan started checking for errors in the videos recently, so at least there's that: http://chronicle.com/blognetwork/castingoutnines/2013/10/23/khan-academy-using-contractors-for-accuracy-checking-some-thoughts/

 

But I only have elementary kids at this point, they're not really ready to be self-directed (even if they do both steal the Beast Academy guide and read it alone!)

[Haiku]

I have always found Khan to be light on concept and super-focused just on procedure, so I wouldn't vote to use it as a main math program.

 

Edited because I apparently can't type on my phone.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I agree, I wouldn't use it as a main math program because I know (from personal experience  :glare:) that you can pass levels without really getting what you are doing.  I've used it for myself as a refresher, and I've used it with Shannon if she's having a hard time with a particular concept, and having a presentation from another angle would be useful.  I can see it being more useful with later stages than with elementary level math.  

[Tardis Girl]

OK, I read all of those articles you linked to, SunnyDay. Very interesting. And kind of a bummer for me because...ya, probably not going to go with Khan as our primary. Of course, if I were sitting there watching with them, then that would help. But the reality is that I won't be sitting there with each child every time.

 

Joshin -- I have had my kids accounts set up for a while but there are a couple of features I hadn't explored, so I really appreciate your description of what you do. I think I will definitely seek to use some of those "new" (to me, at least) tools you mentioned. My college girls used Khan from time to time in high school math when they needed different explanations, but it wasn't until my elementary kids started using it that I realized it could be fun too. :)

 

All of this leaves me feeling lost and frustrated!! :(  Math Mammoth feels too slow and boring now, although I think it is solid. LOF is fun for the kids and while lots of topics are covered, it certainly doesn't do much on its own for teaching mastery of facts. I was hopeful for Khan, but after hearing some of the comments are reading the blog posts mentioned, that concerns me as well. 

 

I know there is no perfect math curriculum for everyone, but I'm really wishing there were! Thank you for all the feedback. 

[sunnyday]

All of this leaves me feeling lost and frustrated!! :(  Math Mammoth feels too slow and boring now, although I think it is solid. LOF is fun for the kids and while lots of topics are covered, it certainly doesn't do much on its own for teaching mastery of facts. I was hopeful for Khan, but after hearing some of the comments are reading the blog posts mentioned, that concerns me as well. 

 

I know there is no perfect math curriculum for everyone, but I'm really wishing there were! Thank you for all the feedback. 

 

Sorry!

 

Did you see this thread? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/492528-doing-math-without-a-curriculum/

 

And this related spin-off, that kind of ties in to figuring out what's the "point" of math instruction? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/492849-is-math-nothing-but-problems/

[Chrysalis Academy]

Are you guys doing all the problems in MM?  I think that's one thing that can make it feel slow and boring.  For MM4 & 5, I typically just assigned half the exercises for each problem, and if they were done correctly, we moved on.  There is more practice than a kid needs if they get it right away.  For MM6, for the topics that are review, we do the chapter reviews first, and then I only have her do the lessons on the topics she needs to review - then the chapter test, to make sure she got it.  This makes MM "keep up" and keeps it from feeling so slow and boring.  You can also add challenging supplements.  At the end of a MM chapter, I'll assign the problems from Zaccaro, and that will often kick the challenge up a notch (or several!).

 

Khan is not where I'd go for challenge if I thought my kids were bored - I think it's a good place to go for an alternative presentation of a tough topic, but it can get pretty boring once the novelty of doing "computer math" wears off.  When you really get something,  it can be tedious to have to do repeated problems to prove it, and when you don't, more problems aren't going to help you get it, KWIM?  Maybe you guys just need a challenging supplement, like Beast Academy, Zaccaro, or something like that?

[TarynB]

Have you considered combining math programs? I've done this with my kids with great success. We have a core math program that covers the main points, even has a long spiral, then a 'math lab' that approaches math from another way.

Do you mind sharing what programs you're using? Thank you.

[TarynB]

Are you guys doing all the problems in MM? I think that's one thing that can make it feel slow and boring. For MM4 & 5, I typically just assigned half the exercises for each problem, and if they were done correctly, we moved on. There is more practice than a kid needs if they get it right away. For MM6, for the topics that are review, we do the chapter reviews first, and then I only have her do the lessons on the topics she needs to review - then the chapter test, to make sure she got it. This makes MM "keep up" and keeps it from feeling so slow and boring. You can also add challenging supplements.

Yep, this is exactly how we used MM4 and up too! Worked very well here.

[robsiew]

We just use Khan when I get stuck with my oldest and need another way to explain a concept.  It's worked great for that.  By the time I get to my other three I've figured out different ways to teach the concepts so I don't really use Khan with them.  My oldest loves math and will just do Khan for fun sometimes. 

[Tardis Girl]

lprstn -- I, too, would be interested in hearing what math programs you combine and how you do it.

 

Regarding MM, Rose I really appreciate you mentioning about cutting back on problems. I remember thinking we might do that at some point but haven't really, at least not systematically at all. The perfectionist in me (and the one who has some past math regrets with my oldest ones) still resists when I start to look at what problems to skip. lol  I think with MM4 I also felt like there was little new material being taught, which felt just counterproductive. 

 

Supplements: We did start using Primary Challenge Math by Zaccarro (only on 3rd or 4th chapter) -- the 2nd grader does Levels 1-2 and maybe a problem or two from Level 3; the 4th grader skims though Level 1-2 and focuses on Levels 3-4. HOWEVER, I am often involved in helping them talk through / think through the problems, and sometimes end up teaching new ways for computation to solve it if it's a bit beyond what they've learned or there are "tricks" to make solving it easier. I'd be curious to hear if this anything like the way others use it. Do you think it should more independent? I like LOF Elementary, but it feels like a snack more than a meal. Kids love it. lol  And of course Khan has been used for the past year as a supplement.

 

I haven't used BA or anything else, although I've heard people talk about them. Would love to just be able to borrow stuff for a week or two before buying -- wouldn't that be great?! ;)

[EmilyGF]

My friend successfully used it as a stand-alone math program for a year for her sixth grade son, before she could get appropriate tutors.

 

Emily