My indecision about phonics! SWR, blend phonics, others...

[countrygal]

My ds is 7 and will be doing 2nd grade work. All the typical phonics books he cried as soon as I'd pull them out (Alpha-Phonics, Phonics Pathways, MCP.) He likes the ETC books but they are too incomplete and he can fill them in by guessing, and he can't read the questions or sentences in them. We started SWR in December last year and he loves it as he likes to write and spell (strange, huh?) I typed up dozens of pages of phrases and sentences organized by the sections of spelling words, being cumulative as he need the constant review of more than just reading out of his learning log. But pull out a BOB book and he falls apart, even though I know he knows the words. I'm not sure where I'm going with this story, other than it's been a long struggle. I feel like we spend soooo much time on it and hardly get anywhere. He literally knows almost all of the phonograms and their multiple sounds, but when it comes to reading them in words he freaks out! I know I'm going to get a lot of "but he's only 7" comments but at this rate he'll be reading 3rd grade level by college. I want to spend more time doing other fun learning stuff than phonics phonics phonics. We will stick to SWR as that is the only thing that keeps him from crying (can't say that about the teacher :crying: )

 

Now, I have a kindy 5yo dd coming up. I'm too terrified to even know where to start with her. I don't *think* she will be the same as ds. She's already started copying words she sees; I haven't done anything formal with her. I want to start SWR with her as I love the methodology. But the learning to read part seems to take longer in general. Should I use Blend Phonics instead? Both?! I don't want to spend half the year struggling with one or the other only to switch. Has anyone used SWR successfully with a 5 yo? I feel compelled to stick on a specific phonogram for a few days (like ai , ay sounds, then oo sounds) like in Blend Phonics (and other typical programs.) I think I keep agonizing over the few things I don't like about certain programs and don't just get over it and keep plowing through. Someone tell me what to do, because I can't seem to make a decision.

[4peanuts]

I want to tread carefully here, because I know it's easy to step on toes with this topic.  It's so hard to address generically, because children can be so different.  For some kids it does just click, and I'm not going to debate the idea that some students just aren't ready until later--I know it's true, and that's why this can be so tricky. 

 

My advice comes from the perspective of being a former PS teacher at an inner city school where we HAD to count on what we could do during the school day to reach the most number of children, and allow the fewest number to fall through the cracks, because most did not have parents who had the time, opportunity, or means to provide much academic support at home.  Following that, I worked as a reading consultant for 4 years, exclusively with schools that had large numbers of below-level and/or non readers.  So with that said, here are some thoughts:

 

SWR has some really wonderful elements and I know many have experienced great success with it.  I am very pro-phonics, but also know that within the phonics umbrella there are still some big differences in approach.  One of the things about SWR that has the *potential* to cause problems is the way that so many sounds are taught at once.  To some students, this can be overwhelming.  Also, SWR has the approach of teaching reading and spelling simultaneously, or you might even say to teach spelling first and that reading will follow.  Some might disagree with that summary, but the point I'm trying to make is that learning to spell and learning to read, while obviously related, involve opposite skills.  Spelling involves taking sounds apart while reading requires putting sounds together.  It may seem silly to quibble over the difference, but again, I am coming from the perspective of having to identify things that MAY cause problems for certain types of learners....and to some kids, trying to focus on both at the same time can be overwhelming--or at least a stumbling block.

 

I believe that in the absence of a reason to do otherwise, such as a known learning issue, a good approach to start with is to work on blending (decoding) first, and save the focus on spelling (encoding) for later.  I would do this by introducing a few basic sounds rather than throwing the kitchen sink of phonograms at them, and teaching the student to blend those few sounds to form regular words. 

 

Consider it as though reading is a puzzle, and you are teaching them what the puzzle pieces are(phonograms) and how to put them together (blending).  It's a lot easier to start with a 6 piece puzzle than it is to start with a 50 or 500 piece puzzle.  Blending is really a critical skill that is sometimes overlooked, assuming that eventually the student will just "get it".  And of course, sometimes it happens that way.  But teaching it explicitly from the beginning (with lots of modeling) can make the road a lot easier, and for some students, it's a necessity.

 

As the student is ready to absorb more, then more and more phonograms can be introduced.  In the beginning I wouldn't even bother with trying to have them read words in the context of sentences or a story.  Word guessing/context clues can take their attention off pure focus on decoding skills.

 

My two cents....hope this is helpful as you sort through your options. :)

 

 

[4peanuts]

Also to clarify, because I don't want to assume everyone uses the same definition---By blending, I mean saying the sounds together slowly *without* stopping between the sounds...almost singing them, if you will.  This means starting with words that don't have quick sounds (as SWR calls them) at the beginning or middle of a word.  It's possible to blend words with quick sounds, but it's definitely a step up in difficulty.  So reading words like "cat" or "dad", simple as they look, are actually more advanced to blend/decode than a word like "mom" or "rat"

[Snow]

Wow, i could have written your post. My ds sounds exactly the same as yours. No advice...just listening with interest. Its so hard to have this huge challenge right in the beginning of the homeschooling journey.

[Snow]

4peanuts, I love your puzzle analogy, that totally makes sense. Unfortunately, I just bought WRTR thinking that it might help to play off his strengths at writing and spelling. Hmmm....

[countrygal]

4peanuts: Your post has helped me soooooo much. You said what I've been trying to wrap my mind around. I know ds has issues with blending. It is likely a developmental or maturity issue. He has some dyslexic tendencies which SWR helped a lot. After a year and a half of repeatedly struggling to do basic 2 and 3 letter words I switched to SWR. I think we needed it because he needed some sort of progression or feeling of actually accomplishing anything. He memorized the phonograms at an astonishing rate (way faster than me!) and he can spell a lot if we sound it out together. However, the reading isn't following. That's where my struggle is. I just want him to READ already! I'm don't want to over-do it if I pick up another phonics and continue with the SWR. I love SWR rules, as they make the most sense and it has helped ds understand language somewhat. Since he loves to copy and obviously learns from this process, I may have him write words based on a specific phonogram until mastered (using Blend Phonics list), then move on to the next, etc. while reviewing what he has previously done. I just feel like maybe I'm missing something or doing something wrong that I can't find a 'curriculum' that works. I'm afraid if I make something up, such as combining these two programs in this way, I'll mess it up even more.

 

Also, how can I teach blending specifically? Do I need to say each letter sound, then the entire word, and have him repeat it? Books with pictures are definitely a problem as he usually just starts talking about the picture. I need to cut that out for now just to get rid of the frustration it brings.

 

 

[MerryAtHope]

 I just want him to READ already!

 

Hang in there! Kids who struggle, have dyslexic tendencies etc... are going to need a LOT of practice and review. He really will get there. I know it feels like you've been working on it forever (btdt here!) but he really will get it, and it won't take forever.

 

 Since he loves to copy and obviously learns from this process, I may have him write words based on a specific phonogram until mastered (using Blend Phonics list), then move on to the next, etc. while reviewing what he has previously done.

 

I like this idea of taking a more mastery-based approach. Since he seems to learn spelling a bit easier, start with that, but then also have him practice reading the words until he can read them without having to sound them out. Some kids need to see a word as many as 30 times before they can read it fluently.  You can make word cards for him to practice them and review part of the stack each day. You can use the cards to make up silly phrases or sentences for him to read. Let him make up ones for you to read too. Use them with favorite board games like Sorry or Candyland--each person reads a card before taking his or her turn. Use them for playing matching games--read the words as you turn them over until you find matching words or rhyming words etc... 

 

To keep from "overdoing it" as you fear, set a time limit to work on things so that you also work on other subjects. Possibly 20 minutes for spelling and 20 for reading for example. Or 30-40 minutes if you combine them (or possibly 2 separate times during the day--go with his attention span.  You'll find that short, daily lessons where he can give focused attention will probably work better than longer sessions where he gets tired and can't give full attention.)

 

Also, how can I teach blending specifically? Do I need to say each letter sound, then the entire word, and have him repeat it? Books with pictures are definitely a problem as he usually just starts talking about the picture. I need to cut that out for now just to get rid of the frustration it brings.

 

All About Reading uses a blending technique--you can see a demonstration of it here in this article about Breaking the "Word-Guessing" Habit.

 

Also, have you ever practiced oral blending with him? For example, you say 3 sounds and he guesses what the word is. You can even say the sounds of 4 or 5 letter words like /sh/ /ee/ /p/--doesn't matter how many letters, but start with shorter words for blending--and see if he can figure out the word.  Let him also say sounds for you to guess, even if they don't make real words (my kids used to love to hear me try to blend the sounds they gave me!)  You can play this the other way too--you say a word and he segments the sounds, or he says a word and you segment them. It may be that he has some weaknesses in phonological awareness skills, and working on things like paying attention to first or last sounds, oral blending, rhyming words and so on will help him. 

 

All About Reading also teaches the phonograms and rules, and would actually do a lot of the things you are asking about as far as working on fluency, breaking things down into mastery-oriented bites and so on. However, if you want to avoid buying something new, you can try to work those things in using SWR and Blend Phonics. I think if you set some time limits as I said above, that you can avoid having phonics take over your whole day, and can work in some other important things like reading books to him that he's interested in (which helps work on motivation and interest plus helps build vocabulary and language skills as well as knowledge), projects, and other things.  

 

HTH some and gives some ideas! Merry :-)

[Momma H]

You might want to check into the Logic of English. Seriously!

[Mom0012]

My ds is 7 and will be doing 2nd grade work. All the typical phonics books he cried as soon as I'd pull them out (Alpha-Phonics, Phonics Pathways, MCP.) He likes the ETC books but they are too incomplete and he can fill them in by guessing, and he can't read the questions or sentences in them. We started SWR in December last year and he loves it as he likes to write and spell (strange, huh?) I typed up dozens of pages of phrases and sentences organized by the sections of spelling words, being cumulative as he need the constant review of more than just reading out of his learning log. But pull out a BOB book and he falls apart, even though I know he knows the words. I'm not sure where I'm going with this story, other than it's been a long struggle. I feel like we spend soooo much time on it and hardly get anywhere. He literally knows almost all of the phonograms and their multiple sounds, but when it comes to reading them in words he freaks out! I know I'm going to get a lot of "but he's only 7" comments but at this rate he'll be reading 3rd grade level by college. I want to spend more time doing other fun learning stuff than phonics phonics phonics. We will stick to SWR as that is the only thing that keeps him from crying (can't say that about the teacher :crying: )

 

Now, I have a kindy 5yo dd coming up. I'm too terrified to even know where to start with her. I don't *think* she will be the same as ds. She's already started copying words she sees; I haven't done anything formal with her. I want to start SWR with her as I love the methodology. But the learning to read part seems to take longer in general. Should I use Blend Phonics instead? Both?! I don't want to spend half the year struggling with one or the other only to switch. Has anyone used SWR successfully with a 5 yo? I feel compelled to stick on a specific phonogram for a few days (like ai , ay sounds, then oo sounds) like in Blend Phonics (and other typical programs.) I think I keep agonizing over the few things I don't like about certain programs and don't just get over it and keep plowing through. Someone tell me what to do, because I can't seem to make a decision.

I used SWR with both my kids beginning in K, but I used something else to teach them to read. I did start working with them on reading prior to K, though, which helped a lot because SWR can be so time-intensive, depending on the kid. For us, it was a mix of Funnix and Hooked on Phonics. I used two programs because we'd hit a wall in one and then I could switch to the other for a change of pace. Funnix was what I considered our main program, but my kids enjoyed them both. My son has some lds and Funnix got him reading early. Every child is different, though.

[Amy Jo]

Can he blend? I stuck with a spelling approach for a long time because my son could not blend. At any rate, I would try to avoid a battle. We are doing Dancing Bears now and it is worth its weight in gold. (Yes I'm excited. He's not reading "at grade level" but he can fluently read easier books, directions and my shopping list.) I read once about a mom who had her kids dictate a story to her, which she wrote in big letters. Then she had them read the story they had written. If he just has a fear of the books (fear of failure perhaps?) that might help him.

 

Or try a cursor like Dancing Bears (and others) use. Cut an index card in half, then cut a little square notch out of the corner. You can use that to show just one sound at a time. Have you had his eyes checked? I did that when my son was 7 1/2 -- we had to drive 100 miles to find a COVD doctor, but he told us the issue and offered advice to fix it (it was DS's ability to visualize a story, not his eyes).

[Verity]

Going back to last year I was in a similar place with my youngest son. I had tried many different methods at age 5 and early 6 to prepare him for reading, introducing the alphabet and phonemes, lots of reading, some Starfall games and the like. When we started Kindergarten I bought an expensive packaged curriculum for him but at the end of the year he couldn't read Bob books.

I started over in 1st grade with IEW's Primary Arts of Language and found the file folder games to be a big success for us. That program uses a combination of blended phonetics and sight reading and I have found it to be a really well rounded approach. Still, as we progressed through the year even though he learned some words, he still said that he couldn't read and he wasn't able to blend phonemes when they were presented to him. C-A-T might be guessed as "dog"? Seriously.

 

We just went through a second move in our new town, only 11 months after our first, and during that transition I noticed him going backwards in some areas of maturity but suddenly - he can read! He is reading from his brothers Pokémon cards, he can read signs, he can read just about anything but books that I give him. :huh:

 

Anyway - for this guy I really do think that he's developmentally delayed by about 12-18 months, maybe 2 years, but he is finally catching on and I'm confident that he will be reading on level within the next few years if I keep working with him and encouraging him to read.

 

I encourage you to investigate any possible areas of "special needs" (I have an aspie and one with functional dyslexia), there are therapies and helps for almost anything out there. But it's true, sometimes they just have to grow up a little. :lol:

:grouphug:

[countrygal]

Thanks everyone!

 

Merry - thanks for all your ideas and helps. I actually have AAS 1 but we only used it a couple days and I felt like he already knew everything on the first level and I didn't want to buy more! However, maybe he didn't since he can't blend. Plus, I'm bad with scripted stuff and ds gets impatient with me. I really wanted AAR last year but didn't buy it because I didn't want to end up needing a level that was finished yet. I haven't looked at it in a while. I think my dd5 may be good to start with it, ds seems too old because (to me) it moves kind of slow. But then, what I've been doing hasn't been working either. I really think I'm going to try the Blend Phonics with the SWR spelling 'ideas' behind it. Blend Phonics lack of a price tag is nice too :) Dh is getting sick of my buying curriculum I think!

 

I have thought about dyslexia or checking his eyes, but since learning to spell his tracking and L to R direction seems to have improved greatly. His handwriting is really nice. He even does some cursive and he loves copywork, and he can read his math (MM) without problems, so I just figured he can see just fine. I just get frustrated when he spells a word that we sound out together and 10 minutes we go back to it and he says "had" for "green" - not even close.... I'll check out that link about word guessing.

 

I really think the blending is where I need to back up to. DS and DD can do it together now :) I have the 3 R's and I think there are blending games in that too. Thanks for helping me think this through! Now I'm not dreading the start of school soon (although now I might regret not doing much over summer!!!!)