In a quandary with 9th grade science.

[downthelane]

My rising freshman is a little light on science. He is a lover of the outdoors and has spent a great deal amount of time exploring, nature notebooking, and reading science in this area.

 

He is not strong in math, but is making good progress and has solid concepts up into pre-algebra. We just had a break through in this area this past year.

 

I have a good plan for Earth Science or and Integrated Physics and Chemistry for his Freshman year. We could even do a physical science, although that idea doesn't excite me.

 

What are your thoughts? Should I consider something else?

 

I anticipate that his "field" will be something in sports, recreation, perhaps even teaching and coaching.

[Melissa B]

I would not call a high school level science - Earth Science. That is a very common middle/junior high school required science class. I would call it Geology or a semester of Geology and a semester of Astronomy.

[bobbeym]

DS finished earth science earlier this year as a freshman. As a sophomore he'll take Int. Physics & Chem and then Biology as a junior.

 

I think what's most important is to look at where he might want to attend college and see what their requirements will be for science credits. My DS will go to a local CC and his 3 credits will be fine the way we have them planned.

[freesia]

I would not call a high school level science - Earth Science. That is a very common middle/junior high school required science class. I would call it Geology or a semester of Geology and a semester of Astronomy.

Earth Science is a required high school class in NY. Honors students can do it in 8th with a teacher rec.

[downthelane]

DS finished earth science earlier this year as a freshman. As a sophomore he'll take Int. Physics & Chem and then Biology as a junior.

 

I think what's most important is to look at where he might want to attend college and see what their requirements will be for science credits. My DS will go to a local CC and his 3 credits will be fine the way we have them planned.

 

This is one of the paths I have considered for my son. College depends on his football plans which he's undecided about at present. And if he goes the football route, he'll probably need to attend public school for his senior (maybe junior) year. I want him to be prepared regardless of which route he takes. I simply am unsure.

 

One thought I've had is to begin with conceptual physics and break earth science into thirds and do a third a year along with whatever other science he is studying.

[Maura in NY]

In my experience Physical Science IS a course that integrates Chemistry and Physics at an introductory level, so I'm curious about how you see it.

 

Since your son isn't sure where he wants to apply, I would do your best to plan out at least three years worth of science, and make sure that 2 of them have a formal lab component. College and university requirements are all over the place (i.e. Some require just 2, some require 4. Some require 2 but recommend 3 or 4. Some specifiy that Bio has to be one of them, many specify that 2 have to be labs. Etc. The requirements don't necessarily correlate to the "level" of the college, either. By that I mean, it isn't just the top tier schools that require 3 or 4, and some of the more competitive schools only require 2. No rhyme or reason.) Remember, you can cover some of this with virtual labs, if neither of you are comfortable with the real deal (often messy, sometimes expensive, rarely goes as planned.) Obviously, plans can change as you go along, but I think without a particular plan, it's wise to have bio and either chem or physics covered in some way, so that doors aren't shut because he's missing one of these.

 

There are so many ways to do these subjects to match your student's interests and abilities. I wouldn't steer away from them just because the traditional way doesn't seem a good fit for him.

 

JMHO. Here's my frame of reference: 1st DS is not "sciency". Just not his thing. But we found ways to make it work. He did bio w/lab in 9th, our own version of Environmental Science w/lab in 10th, Chem w/lab in 11th, and "History of Scientific Discovery" in 12th.

[Maura in NY]

In my experience Physical Science IS a course that integrates Chemistry and Physics at an introductory level, so I'm curious about how you see it.

 

Since your son isn't sure where he wants to apply, I would do your best to plan out at least three years worth of science, and make sure that 2 of them have a formal lab component. College and university requirements are all over the place (i.e. Some require just 2, some require 4. Some require 2 but recommend 3 or 4. Some specifiy that Bio has to be one of them, many specify that 2 have to be labs. Etc. The requirements don't necessarily correlate to the "level" of the college, either. By that I mean, it isn't just the top tier schools that require 3 or 4, and some of the more competitive schools only require 2. No rhyme or reason.) Remember, you can cover some of this with virtual labs, if neither of you are comfortable with the real deal (often messy, sometimes expensive, rarely goes as planned.) Obviously, plans can change as you go along, but I think without a particular plan, it's wise to have bio and either chem or physics covered in some way, so that doors aren't shut because he's missing one of these.

 

There are so many ways to do these subjects to match your student's interests and abilities. I wouldn't steer away from them just because the traditional way doesn't seem a good fit for him.

 

JMHO. Here's my frame of reference: 1st DS is not "sciency". Just not his thing. But we found ways to make it work. He did bio w/lab in 9th, our own version of Environmental Science w/lab in 10th, Chem w/lab in 11th, and "History of Scientific Discovery" in 12th.

[bobbeym]

If there's a possibility he could return to public school though, you really need to see what science credits you give would be accepted by the public school, as well as what science he would be required to take there as a jr/sr.

 

In Texas, ps graduates need 4 science credits. Non-AP students would follow one of these tracks:

• Biology (9), Chemistry (10), Physics (11), and then either Anatomy & Physiology, Environmental Science, Astronomy, or Aquatic Science (12).
  
• Biology (9), Integrated Physics & Chemistry (10), Chemistry (11), Physics (12)
  

 

Our school doesn't accept hs credits, and all students would be required to take a placement tests to see what classes they would be allowed to take. From what I've seen, hs students would either test in at 8th grade and start ps in 9th or would graduate homeschooled. Very few seem to return to ps mid-way through high school.

[snowbeltmom]

This is one of the paths I have considered for my son. College depends on his football plans which he's undecided about at present. And if he goes the football route, he'll probably need to attend public school for his senior (maybe junior) year. I want him to be prepared regardless of which route he takes. I simply am unsure.

You may know this already, but just in case you don't: If your son thinks he will want to play college in football at a Div I or Div II school, you will have to have your son go through the NCAA Clearinghouse. As another poster has mentioned, it would be a good idea to check now to make sure that the public school would permit your son to enter the system as a junior or senior and that the public school would also accept your son's homeschooled courses.

 

Our public school permits homeschoolers to enter the public school system during the high school years. Our public school will also accept homeschooled courses, but the public school will not accept the homeschooled grades, so all homeschooled classes are simply assigned a grade of "Pass" on the student's transcript. This may be problematic for a student athlete because the NCAA will award a letter grade of "D" to all classes that are labeled as "Pass" on the transcript.

[downthelane]

You may know this already, but just in case you don't: If your son thinks he will want to play college in football at a Div I or Div II school, you will have to have your son go through the NCAA Clearinghouse. As another poster has mentioned, it would be a good idea to check now to make sure that the public school would permit your son to enter the system as a junior or senior and that the public school would also accept your son's homeschooled courses.

 

Our public school permits homeschoolers to enter the public school system during the high school years. Our public school will also accept homeschooled courses, but the public school will not accept the homeschooled grades, so all homeschooled classes are simply assigned a grade of "Pass" on the student's transcript. This may be problematic for a student athlete because the NCAA will award a letter grade of "D" to all classes that are labeled as "Pass" on the transcript.

 

Oh, my so many great posts and I didn't even know. Let me start with this....

 

I contacted the high school today to find out the answers to these questions. Our public school does permit students to enter as juniors or seniors and in recent years a few homeschooled students who entered the ps system as Jr/Sr went on to play at Division I schools.

 

These are great insights you've posted. I'll see what I find out and share later.

[downthelane]

In my experience Physical Science IS a course that integrates Chemistry and Physics at an introductory level, so I'm curious about how you see it.

 

I don't disagree in part, but as I've looked at "physical science" materials some take a more earth science/physical science approach - while others take a more physics/physical science approach. In addition, I'm unclear why one is considered high-school worthy across the board and the other is not in some places.

 

 

Since your son isn't sure where he wants to apply, I would do your best to plan out at least three years worth of science, and make sure that 2 of them have a formal lab component. College and university requirements are all over the place (i.e. Some require just 2, some require 4. Some require 2 but recommend 3 or 4. Some specifiy that Bio has to be one of them, many specify that 2 have to be labs. Etc. The requirements don't necessarily correlate to the "level" of the college, either. By that I mean, it isn't just the top tier schools that require 3 or 4, and some of the more competitive schools only require 2. No rhyme or reason.) Remember, you can cover some of this with virtual labs, if neither of you are comfortable with the real deal (often messy, sometimes expensive, rarely goes as planned.) Obviously, plans can change as you go along, but I think without a particular plan, it's wise to have bio and either chem or physics covered in some way, so that doors aren't shut because he's missing one of these.

 

As I've inquired at various colleges I'm finding your observations to be accurate. The science requirements are all over the place and there is no rhyme or reason. Does an IPC course cover chem and physics? Or is IPC a foundational course to the other.

 

There are so many ways to do these subjects to match your student's interests and abilities. I wouldn't steer away from them just because the traditional way doesn't seem a good fit for him.

 

Good advice. And I'm ready to help him take on whatever we need to do, BUT I really think an Earth Science type course would be good for him at some point, but I'm not sure what to do to make it high-school worthy or where/when to place it.

 

JMHO. Here's my frame of reference: 1st DS is not "sciency". Just not his thing. But we found ways to make it work. He did bio w/lab in 9th, our own version of Environmental Science w/lab in 10th, Chem w/lab in 11th, and "History of Scientific Discovery" in 12th.

 

What did you use for your 9th grade bio and 10th grade Enviro. Thanks for your insights.

 

[bobbeym]

As I've inquired at various colleges I'm finding your observations to be accurate. The science requirements are all over the place and there is no rhyme or reason. Does an IPC course cover chem and physics? Or is IPC a foundational course to the other.

 

I think it's a little of both. From what I've been able to find during my research on it, it gives enough conceptual chemistry and physics to be a full stand-alone course, but it could certainly be used as a foundation course for students that need a little extra step towards full chemistry and physics courses.

[downthelane]

I think it's a little of both. From what I've been able to find during my research on it, it gives enough conceptual chemistry and physics to be a full stand-alone course, but it could certainly be used as a foundation course for students that need a little extra step towards full chemistry and physics courses.

 

 

So, that makes me wonder - is it worth it to spend time on an IPC course, if the college(s) you are considering require 3 lab sciences with preference toward biology, chemistry and physics?

 

On a similar note - I've been looking at the requirements for the state schools my son is interested in, along with a Division 2 and Division 3 school. The most rigorous requirement of the schools in consideration is 3 lab sciences with preference toward biology, chemistry and physics. This particular school (the only one which is this specific) also goes as far as to say that Earth Science and General Science are not considered lab courses. All the other colleges in question require 2 lab sciences or less, some not even specifying what. In fact as one admissions counselor said to me just get the math in order we can work out the science when you get here!

 

Now to make matters a little more complex - our local high school does require Earth Science to graduate, but most students apparently take it in 8th grade. However, any students who arrive after 8th grade have to take Earth Science. A local homeschooler was accepted into the ps's Governor's program, but had to take Earth Science her Freshman year because it was not a course she had covered prior to her arrival.

[bobbeym]

It sounds like you'll have to do earth science in 9th, followed by biology, chemistry and physics. If he's going to be going back to public school, I wouldn't worry quite as much about chemistry and physics b/c he'd be taking those at the school and I would think tutoring is available if he needs extra help. If he does end up being home for all 4 years, you could consider having him take conceptual chem/physics courses and add in a lab intensive like Landry's.

[downthelane]

It has taken a while, but I've finally heard from the local public school.  Whatever course he does at home they will accept for credit, IF he can pass the standardized state test in that course area!  This would be a piece of cake for my oldest, but not necessarily for this dc.  So, I'm thinking about an Earth Science course that will be:

 

1.) engaging 

2.) prepare him for standardized testing in that subject area

3.) high-school worthy

4.) something we could brush-up on in 2 years if he should enter as  Junior

 

Any suggestions?

[regentrude]

It has taken a while, but I've finally heard from the local public school.  Whatever course he does at home they will accept for credit, IF he can pass the standardized state test in that course area!  This would be a piece of cake for my oldest, but not necessarily for this dc.  So, I'm thinking about an Earth Science course that will be:

 

1.) engaging 

2.) prepare him for standardized testing in that subject area

3.) high-school worthy

4.) something we could brush-up on in 2 years if he should enter as  Junior

 

Any suggestions?

 

Before you spend time researching: IS there a standardized state test in Earth science in your state???

[downthelane]

Great question!  And the answer is.... YES!

 

Here's the blueprint.

[regentrude]

I have no idea whether this lines up with your state test, but we like the Tarbuck text, and we also have a Teaching Company course on DVD.

[downthelane]

I have no idea whether this lines up with your state test, but we like the Tarbuck text, and we also have a Teaching Company course on DVD.

Which dvd course?

[regentrude]

I think we have the first of these two, but have not watched it yet. But since we have used many TC courses for other subjects I expect this to be good (our only disappointment was a course specifically designed for high school)

 

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1750

 

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1700