Spanish / Espanol--Please list all your favorite books/resources/etc.

[Pen]

Duolingo is working well so far for us, but we want more yet. Also, by the way, if you have Duolingo experience is it possible to sign up more than one person from the same email? And if you have turned off the audio record, how do you get it back on?

 

What are your favorite books, audio programs, other websites, etc. "Etc." could be flashcards, readers, puzzles or fun stuff of some sort..., phrase books that particularly have things a child might like to say ("Can I go over to play at ____'s house?") -- alas we cannot go to a place where it is the main language, though I am sure that would be best of all...)?

 

Has anyone tried "Everything Kids Spanish"? Has anyone tried "Speak and Learn Spanish (for Mac)"? Has anyone tried a subscription to Iguana magazine (in the Cricket group), which is meant for children who are Spanish speakers but I thought might help? I have taken out a few books from our library's children Spanish section, but cannot find anything thus far that is approachable (for my son), yet not too babyish--any ideas for what would basically be a high interest/low level reader in Spanish? For me, I am actually finding some kid's books a great way to go--I found one on Isaac Newton, for example, as well as a Harry Potter in Spanish, but they are too hard for my son. I can't seem to find El Toro, Ferdinando, but think books around that level would be accessible to him.

 

I am especially interested in Spanish geared to Latin America.

 

And, if you have managed to achieve fluency or are making excellent progress, please would you share what you and your kids did or are doing to get there? This is going to be our special focus this summer!

[bakpak]

What age is your son & what level of reading is he at?

 

In general I think that reading children's books is more rewarding than trying to slog through a huge novel like Harry Potter. I tend to maintain my momentum by feeling a sense of completion and pride with shorter stories.

 

My daughter loves to hear Jorge el Curioso and Clifford books in Spanish, although it will be years before she's ready to read them herself. I think Corduroy might be a good fit too. Also, El Dia de Nieve. These would likely be good options to start with. These are probably around the 2nd grade level in English, so you might want to research other books in that range if it's a good fit.

 

This book is awesome for having short tales that are a little harder, but they're short and sweet (1-5 pages including pictures). http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/365-cuentos-y-rimas-para-ni-os-incorporated-parragon/1114567130?ean=9781781866276 It's an AWESOME price for what you get. I haven't seen anything else like this for the $$. My daughter & I both really enjoy the stories (although I should probably do my homework a little more with the dictionary before I read them to her). We muddle through okay and she often asks for them. They're engaging and perfect for stretching a bit without being too overwhelming. It helps that there's plenty to choose from depending on interest, including stories from all seasons (we really enjoyed the sweet but spooky Halloween ones).

 

This one is harder, but I've been enjoying this one from the library lately http://www.amazon.com/Cuentos-contaban-nuestras-abuelas-Abuelitas/dp/1416939652/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1367983809&sr=8-3&keywords=cuentos+de+abuelos

 

I've bought a ridiculous amount of foreign language books for our household, but well over half of them I've found at used bookstores, thrift shops, and children's consignment shops like Once Upon a Child (in the US). I dig and dig and am often successful at finding something new and interesting in Spanish. There's more out there than you might think at first. I have had only mild success with libraries (lived in 4 states in 2 years), although if you know what you want, inter-library loan can be helpful.

 

Take a peek on the Bilingual board - with a quick search you'll likely find lots more ideas.

 

Good luck!

Becky

 

PS. Holy cow...I've lived in 4 states in the past 2 years??! I'd never thought of it in those terms before. Alaska seems so long ago now...

[Ariston]

Kids Stuff Spanish is an AWESOME phrase book....it has everything you would ever say to a kid and what they would say back. There is even a homeschool phrase section with phrases like "there goes the bus!" :) My only hesitation in recommending it is that for the size of the book it should cost $10-15. Maybe they only print low numbers....I have no idea why it's so expensive. However, I've wasted a lot if money in others resources, whereas that is one book I actually like.

 

I think it's very effective to go through the book and pick out one phrase to add in to your household each week. For instance, the first week EVERY time you tell your child to put on their shoes, you say "ponte los zapatos" instead of saying it english. They will pick it up rather quickly, especially with gestures and pointing. They will not be able to tell you what each word means, and they probably won't even be able to tell you how to say "shoes" in spanish, but they WILL be learning.

 

Everything Kids Spanish is OK depending on how much you like worksheets. We've focused almost entirely on speaking, so it hasn't been that useful for us yet, but if you are looking for something with worksheets to supplement whatever you are doing then it would be a good choice.

 

Visual Link Spanish has been really incredible for my kids. I believe the whole first year is free. My kids have always been able to demonstrate understanding and have built up their vocabulary, but they never made that bridge to trying to communicate on their own or forming sentnces on their own until Visual Link. The first lesson includes a LOT of new words and I thought it would be an impossible pace, but I was surprise how effectively they learned the material after a few lessons (and the subsequent lessons are mainly reinforcement.). I am using it now with a friends child and he seems to be learning too so I don't think my kids have done well only because of their previous exposure.

 

ETA: regarding kids books, expect a high frustration level even with easy books. My kids never enjoy them even though I've been talking to them in Spanish for years (off and on.). There are just so many idiomatic phrases are new vocabulary in even basic books like Eric Carle books. I grew up in a bilingual household and my mom says I hated it when she would read to me in Spanish. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm jus saying doing expect your child to like it :)

[TarynB]

Seconding Visual Link Spanish. Hugely effective here.

 

Also,

Practice Makes Perfect Basic Spanish workbook - there are others in the series but we haven't got to them yet

 

Getting Started With Spanish and also here (free audio files are excellent supplements to the book)

 

free Salsa cartoon episodes (each episode has a related PDF transcript and activity)

 

watch favorite/familiar DVDs in Spanish instead of English

[Pen]

Thank you for these ideas! I will check them out! I am not as happy with Duolingo anymore--I was working on it and got to a lesson where it gave las gatas (rather than los gatos) for the cats. I don't know if there may have been other errors that I did not pick up. I mean I assume that I know enough to know they are wrong. I did not go far enough to see whether it would be done wrong repeatedly or was a single error.

[Pen]

What age is your son & what level of reading is he at?

 

...

Take a peek on the Bilingual board - with a quick search you'll likely find lots more ideas.

 

...

 

I left my question general in hopes that people would write things that might be helpful for children at many different stages of learning.

 

To answer you though, my son is 11. In English he is starting to read at an adult level at this point. In Spanish he can just read a few words. He has a dyslexia-ish situation so reading in English was hard, but seems to be a bit easier in Spanish at the same level of beginnings. He did a little Spanish in the past, but then we stopped to focus on other things, but he still remembers some things like numbers to 10, some colors, and so on.

 

I will peek on the Bilingual board, wow, I thought that would be way out of my league!

[Pen]

Kids Stuff Spanish is an AWESOME phrase book....it has everything you would ever say to a kid and what they would say back. There is even a homeschool phrase section with phrases like "there goes the bus!" :) My only hesitation in recommending it is that for the size of the book it should cost $10-15. Maybe they only print low numbers....I have no idea why it's so expensive. However, I've wasted a lot if money in others resources, whereas that is one book I actually like.

 

I think it's very effective to go through the book and pick out one phrase to add in to your household each week. For instance, the first week EVERY time you tell your child to put on their shoes, you say "ponte los zapatos" instead of saying it english. They will pick it up rather quickly, especially with gestures and pointing. They will not be able to tell you what each word means, and they probably won't even be able to tell you how to say "shoes" in spanish, but they WILL be learning.

 

Everything Kids Spanish is OK depending on how much you like worksheets. We've focused almost entirely on speaking, so it hasn't been that useful for us yet, but if you are looking for something with worksheets to supplement whatever you are doing then it would be a good choice.

 

Visual Link Spanish has been really incredible for my kids. I believe the whole first year is free. My kids have always been able to demonstrate understanding and have built up their vocabulary, but they never made that bridge to trying to communicate on their own or forming sentnces on their own until Visual Link. The first lesson includes a LOT of new words and I thought it would be an impossible pace, but I was surprise how effectively they learned the material after a few lessons (and the subsequent lessons are mainly reinforcement.). I am using it now with a friends child and he seems to be learning too so I don't think my kids have done well only because of their previous exposure.

 

ETA: regarding kids books, expect a high frustration level even with easy books. My kids never enjoy them even though I've been talking to them in Spanish for years (off and on.). There are just so many idiomatic phrases are new vocabulary in even basic books like Eric Carle books. I grew up in a bilingual household and my mom says I hated it when she would read to me in Spanish. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm jus saying doing expect your child to like it :)

 

When I tried Visual Link in past I could not make it work in a technical computer problem sort of way. With this recommendation, I'll try again. Thanks for the other suggestions and warnings.

 

Do you (or someone else reading this) know how to say Te quiero where the indirect object would be a plural form of you? That is if you were saying buenas noches, and want to say "I love you" to more than one child at the same time?

[Pen]

Seconding Visual Link Spanish. Hugely effective here.

 

Also,

Practice Makes Perfect Basic Spanish workbook - there are others in the series but we haven't got to them yet

 

Getting Started With Spanish and also here (free audio files are excellent supplements to the book)

 

free Salsa cartoon episodes (each episode has a related PDF transcript and activity)

 

watch favorite/familiar DVDs in Spanish instead of English

 

 

I have some Practice Makes Perfect books and also like them a lot. I'll look at your other suggestions, too.

 

My son is on lesson one of Practice Makes Perfect Basic Spanish, part way through taking it bit by bit. Do you think that we might be better off with Getting Started With Spanish which seems to move much more slowly? Where does it get by its end? I am concerned that having seen that the 4th lesson had only had one noun apparently (?), while my son can already answer things like what casa means and what definite article it should have, would be too slow, and not maybe get very far even after 200 pages?

 

I am feeling ignorant about the DVDs idea. When you say to watch favorite DVD's in Spanish, do you mean by adjusting the subtitling on them? Or getting them with the spoken parts dubbed in vocally? If the latter where do you get them?

[TarynB]

I have some Practice Makes Perfect books and also like them a lot. I'll look at your other suggestions, too.

 

My son is on lesson one of Practice Makes Perfect Basic Spanish, part way through taking it bit by bit. Do you think that we might be better off with Getting Started With Spanish which seems to move much more slowly? Where does it get by its end? I am concerned that having seen that the 4th lesson had only had one noun apparently (?), while my son can already answer things like what casa means and what definite article it should have, would be too slow, and not maybe get very far even after 200 pages?

 

I am feeling ignorant about the DVDs idea. When you say to watch favorite DVD's in Spanish, do you mean by adjusting the subtitling on them? Or getting them with the spoken parts dubbed in vocally? If the latter where do you get them?

 

I think the author of Getting Started With Spanish recommends doing the Practice Makes Perfect Basic Spanish as a follow-up or alongside GSWS, so you might try going through GSWS first. You can do more than one lesson per day of GSWS, especially at the beginning, if it seems too easy. Or skip ahead in GSWS until you get to stuff that's new to your DS. Then pick back up with the PMP workbook.

 

Re: the DVDs, I guess it just depends on your preference or your DS's learning style (visual vs. auditory). We have DVDs around the house, like the Stuart Little movies, that have the option of Spanish or French voices in the DVD's play options. You might also check your library to see if they have any DVDs available with Spanish subtitles or Spanish-dubbed voices.

[wapiti]

here's a free vintage text and TM

http://books.google.com/books?id=3stEAAAAIAAJ&dq=poco%20a%20poco&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=_sIZAAAAYAAJ&dq=poco%20a%20poco%20manual&pg=PA3#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

other stuff:

Spanish Town (with Spanish For Kids) http://www.spanishtown.ca/

[Matryoshka]

Thank you for these ideas! I will check them out! I am not as happy with Duolingo anymore--I was working on it and got to a lesson where it gave las gatas (rather than los gatos) for the cats. I don't know if there may have been other errors that I did not pick up. I mean I assume that I know enough to know they are wrong. I did not go far enough to see whether it would be done wrong repeatedly or was a single error.

 

 

Um, there's nothing wrong with "las gatas". It just means "the female cats". In Spanish, when referring to people or animals, a masculine plural can mean all male or mixed gender, and a female plural means there are only females.

 

I have noticed some odd sentences in Duolingo (the elephant heard the children??), but no egregious grammatical violations. I did find an error in English - it marked dd wrong on "an apple" as it wanted "a apple". Whoopsie.

 

For people who have done both Duolingo and Visual Link... does one go farther than the other? Could one use Visual Link as a follow-on, or are they roughly parallel? I'm only using Duolingo for dd to review her Spanish 1 skills before starting Spanish 2 in the fall, but she seems to like the online practice - now I'm a bit worried we'll run out!

 

I've used and liked Español para chicos y grandes, Spanish Now! Level 1 (Level 2 is by different authors and awful), and Breaking the Spanish Barrier Levels 2 and 3 for our main grammar spines. They all imho need someone who speaks Spanish to use to their full advantage, however...

[JDoe]

I am especially interested in Spanish geared to Latin America.

 

Hmm, like you want someone to learn English with an American accent? The follow-up question would then be: Mexican, Cuban, Argentinian, .... ?

 

Anyhow, recommend Mortadelo y Filemon

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mort_%26_Phil

[Matryoshka]

Hmm, like you want someone to learn English with an American accent? The follow-up question would then be: Mexican, Cuban, Argentinian, .... ?

 

Anyhow, recommend Mortadelo y Filemon

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Mort_&_Phil

 

 

I really like Mafalda, which is how I taught myself to conjugate the Argentinian 'vos' form... :)

[junepep]

Seconding Visual Link Spanish. Hugely effective here.

 

Also,

Practice Makes Perfect Basic Spanish workbook - there are others in the series but we haven't got to them yet

 

Getting Started With Spanish and also here (free audio files are excellent supplements to the book)

 

free Salsa cartoon episodes (each episode has a related PDF transcript and activity)

 

watch favorite/familiar DVDs in Spanish instead of English

 

 

 

There are actual lesson plans available for Salsa as well through the Dept of Education Site in Wyoming (although I don't think that an 11yo would actually like salsa, since it's very obviously geared to younger children, but here's the link to the lesson plans jic: http://edu.wyoming.gov/searchresults.aspx?SearchQuery=salsa

[Pen]

Um, there's nothing wrong with "las gatas". It just means "the female cats". In Spanish, when referring to people or animals, a masculine plural can mean all male or mixed gender, and a female plural means there are only females.

...

 

 

Thank you! I just got that same explanation/clarification from a person I know from Mexico, who asked me if the picture was of boy cats or girl cats...(it did not show a relevant part of the cat to know, but I guess if they were las gatas that they were females) but anyway, I learned a lot from this confusion. My dictionary only gives it as masculine and I looked up mare which my friend said can be similarly indicated by "la caballa" which my dictionary does not give as a possibility. Maybe I need a better dictionary.

[Pen]

Hmm, like you want someone to learn English with an American accent? The follow-up question would then be: Mexican, Cuban, Argentinian, .... ?

 

Anyhow, recommend Mortadelo y Filemon

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Mort_&_Phil

 

 

Are you suggesting that a Castillian accent would be better? To me it seems like what we are most likely to run into most of the time is Spanish from somewhere in Latin America, so that to get practice and correction is easier. I think certain other accents of English are more beautiful than North American--personally I am partial to Scottish and New Zealand accents, but have not taught these to my child.

 

I am unable to perceive Spanish accents as people with Spanish as a first language would perceive them. I do not especially want the Spanish version of a New Jersey or Bronx, New York accent. I would not mind the Spanish version of a California/Midwestern/USA news caster accent and I also find some Southern USA accents very pleasant. For Spanish, I would not know which is which. Castillian to me sounds like people have a lisp--does it sound beautiful to Spanish speakers even if they are from Central or South America?

[JDoe]

Are you suggesting that a Castillian accent would be better?

I am pretty sure you will end up with an american accent, unless you go in-country ;)

 

Jokes aside, it is probably more "neutral" with a Salamanca accent. I would steer away from Mexican, Cuban, Argentinian as these are pretty strong although I personally find the Cuban accent to be most pleasant.

 

To me it seems like what we are most likely to run into most of the time is Spanish from somewhere in Latin America, so that to get practice and correction is easier.

Undoubtedly, however what I really suggest is that you need not be overly concerned about the accent unless you intend an inmersion experience.

 

I think certain other accents of English are more beautiful than North American--personally I am partial to Scottish and New Zealand accents, but have not taught these to my child.

Scottish is not an accent by some accounts

 

I am unable to perceive Spanish accents as people with Spanish as a first language would perceive them. I do not especially want the Spanish version of a New Jersey or Bronx, New York accent. I would not mind the Spanish version of a California/Midwestern/USA news caster accent and I also find some Southern USA accents very pleasant. For Spanish, I would not know which is which. Castillian to me sounds like people have a lisp--does it sound beautiful to Spanish speakers even if they are from Central or South America?

 

I think you should not be overly concerned about the accent, Spanish IS understandable no matter your accent although some are placeable geographically and others less so. I would recommend that you concentrate on using the best resources available to you and not concern yourself too much with this issue. Now if you are considering an immersion study at some time I would probably look to Salamanca in Spain, Paraguay or Colombia, as these to me seem more neutral.

[Ariston]

Thank you! I just got that same explanation/clarification from a person I know from Mexico, who asked me if the picture was of boy cats or girl cats...(it did not show a relevant part of the cat to know, but I guess if they were las gatas that they were females) but anyway, I learned a lot from this confusion. My dictionary only gives it as masculine and I looked up mare which my friend said can be similarly indicated by "la caballa" which my dictionary does not give as a possibility. Maybe I need a better dictionary.

This site is very useful in understanding the gender of nouns that describe people or animals: http://www.netplaces.com/spanish/subjects-who-are-you/determining-the-gender.htm

 

 

Do you (or someone else reading this) know how to say Te quiero where the indirect object would be a plural form of you? That is if you were saying buenas noches, and want to say "I love you" to more than one child at the same time?

I think you should not be overly concerned about the accent, Spanish IS understandable no matter your accent although some are placeable geographically and others less so.

I agree that accent is not so important but the grammatical differences are. 99% of the people your child will have the opportunity so speak with will be from Latin America (if you live in the americas) so I agree that that is what it makes sense to teach. Teaching them conjugations that will be foreign to other people from the Americas is just silly, if you ask me...unless of course your family is geared towards Europe for some reason.

 

To answer your question, Latin Americans would say "los quiero" whereas Spaniards would say "os quiero" I believe.

 

Eta:

I also wanted to add since you mentioned your son was possibly dyslexic, that visual link has much less reading or writing than duolingo. With duolingo I basically have to sit there constantly and help, whereas with visual link I can leave for 90% of it. I'm not sure about the computer issues...I paid for the program so I have it downloaded to my computer and it works well. Sometimes I use it online if I'm away, and usually it works but there have been a few times when it was glitchy.

 

[JDoe]

Teaching them conjugations that will be foreign to other people from the Americas is just silly, if you ask me...unless of course your family is geared towards Europe for some reason.

 

Now you got me curious, are you telling me that verb conjugations differ? I have the distinct impression that it the form of address that differ somewhat, not the conjugations, those differences I perceive between form of address you do find just as much between older and younger, formal and informal, etc as you find them between Spain and say Cuba.

 

PS OK, I admit I learned something new today, apparently the Argentinians (mainly) actually have some differences here, still I wouldn't worry overly about them.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voseo

 

Nice little map there that shows where this difference extend geographically too, of course that will not "solve" the (non-) problem. I have worked with Argentinians in Spanish and this is a non-issue, up until today I didn't realize there was more to this "quirk" than the use of "Vos", and I thought they tended to make some minor mistakes that now seem to be non-mistakes, well at least according to the Argentinian way of looking at things. :)

 

 

Another link on dialectic differences within Spanish.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dialects_and_varieties

[Matryoshka]

I agree that accent is not so important but the grammatical differences are. 99% of the people your child will have the opportunity so speak with will be from Latin America (if you live in the americas) so I agree that that is what it makes sense to teach. Teaching them conjugations that will be foreign to other people from the Americas is just silly, if you ask me...unless of course your family is geared towards Europe for some reason.

 

I couldn't disagree more. Let me just x-post what I wrote in the "French or Spanish" thread earlier today on this same topic:

 

Oh, heavens. It's not that big a deal to learn the vosotros form, and it will actually help you with the vos form, which is derived from it and used in Argentina and some other parts of South America, and which is not taught in any books I've ever seen. And a huge number of exchange programs are to Spain, and when I worked in business, I did as much business with Spain as Latin America. The world is small. Don't think small and think the only places you'd ever go are contiguous with the United States. Most of South America is actually farther away from the US than Spain - whether there's water in between is rather irrelevant when you're in an airplane. Oh, and if you have even a tiny thought of actually studying Spanish to a degree where you are conversant, you are going to end up reading Spanish literature, which uses the vosotros form. A lot. And as far as written Spanish, other than a few words (similar to US/UK English differences, nothing huge), that's the only big difference. Learning one more conjugation when you learn the rest is absolutely painless - you don't have to use it if you don't want it, but if you don't learn it, you can't use it. Why oh why would you limit yourself??

 

And as far as accent, it's also not a huge deal. Honestly 90% of the Americans I've heard have such a horrendous American accent I'd never have any idea which Spanish accent they were attempting. Focus on getting main pronunciation right, especially the vowels and the r and you're 99% of the way there - whether or not you choose to use the 'th' pronunciation for c and z is beside the point ('s' is pronounced like 's' in all Spanish variants - they are not lisping). Know it's a variant, just like 'll' is pronounced more like 'zh' than 'y' in some places (South America, not Spain). I do find the 'th' pronunciation of 'c' and 'z' helpful, because it makes it even easier to know how things are spelled, as then there's a unique sound for 'z' and 's'. (and 'z' in Spanish is never pronounced like 'z' in English - it's soft 's' or 'th')

 

To answer your question, Latin Americans would say "los quiero" whereas Spaniards would say "os quiero" I believe.

 

Not quite. "Los" is the direct object pronoun; you want the indirect object pronoun "les" here. So "les quiero". "Os quiero" is correct for Spain, though.

[Pen]

I couldn't disagree more. Let me just x-post what I wrote in the "French or Spanish" thread earlier today on this same topic:

 

Oh, heavens. It's not that big a deal to learn the vosotros form, and it will actually help you with the vos form, ...

 

The Practice Makes Perfect series has vosotros form, and Duolingo seems to have vos form.

 

 

And as far as accent, it's also not a huge deal. Honestly 90% of the Americans I've heard have such a horrendous American accent I'd never have any idea which Spanish accent they were attempting. Focus on getting main pronunciation right, especially the vowels and the r and you're 99% of the way there - whether or not you choose to use the 'th' pronunciation for c and z is beside the point ('s' is pronounced like 's' in all Spanish variants - they are not lisping). Know it's a variant, just like 'll' is pronounced more like 'zh' than 'y' in some places (South America, not Spain). I do find the 'th' pronunciation of 'c' and 'z' helpful, because it makes it even easier to know how things are spelled, as then there's a unique sound for 'z' and 's'. (and 'z' in Spanish is never pronounced like 'z' in English - it's soft 's' or 'th')

 

I agree that one should concentrate on getting the main parts right. OTOH, I don't think that 90% of Americans having a bad accent means one should not start out attempting to get one that is going to be helpful if one attains to it. I did not mean that Spaniards are actually lisping, sorry if I gave that impression. I know that it is correct pronunciation for certain sounds in the Castillian pronunciation.

 

Not quite. "Los" is the direct object pronoun; you want the indirect object pronoun "les" here. So "les quiero". "Os quiero" is correct for Spain, though.

 

 

A person from Mexico I asked about this said that they would actually use "los quiero" in this situation. "You" is who or what is being loved.

[Pen]

 

 

Anyhow, recommend Mortadelo y Filemon

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Mort_&_Phil

 

 

 

This looks like a lot of fun!!!!! How do you use it for learning, or do you just read it together? Can one get comic books of it, and if so, from where?

[Pen]

Ariston and JDoe, thank you for the links for more on genders, and Spanish differences! "Vos" is the plural form for you in Portuguese, I wonder if that influenced Argentina.

[Ariston]

Now you got me curious, are you telling me that verb conjugations differ? I have the distinct impression that it the form of address that differ somewhat, not the conjugations, those differences I perceive between form of address you do find just as much between older and younger, formal and informal, etc as you find them between Spain and say Cuba.

 

I'm mainly referring to differences in pronouns and their respective conjugations and object pronouns, such as the use of vosotros in Spain. I.e. if you are teaching your child to say 'you (all) speak', the difference between teaching 'Uds. hablan' vs. 'vosotros hablaís.'

 

I personally use vos with my kids because that is how I speak, but all of the resources available to me use 'tú' so that is mainly what they're learning. That's fine with me because that is what most people use who they will speak to.

 

I couldn't disagree more. Let me just x-post what I wrote in the "French or Spanish" thread earlier today on this same topic:

 

Oh, heavens. It's not that big a deal to learn the vosotros form, and it will actually help you with the vos form, which is derived from it and used in Argentina and some other parts of South America, and which is not taught in any books I've ever seen. And a huge number of exchange programs are to Spain, and when I worked in business, I did as much business with Spain as Latin America. The world is small. Don't think small and think the only places you'd ever go are contiguous with the United States. Most of South America is actually farther away from the US than Spain - whether there's water in between is rather irrelevant when you're in an airplane. Oh, and if you have even a tiny thought of actually studying Spanish to a degree where you are conversant, you are going to end up reading Spanish literature, which uses the vosotros form. A lot. And as far as written Spanish, other than a few words (similar to US/UK English differences, nothing huge), that's the only big difference. Learning one more conjugation when you learn the rest is absolutely painless - you don't have to use it if you don't want it, but if you don't learn it, you can't use it. Why oh why would you limit yourself??

 

And as far as accent, it's also not a huge deal. Honestly 90% of the Americans I've heard have such a horrendous American accent I'd never have any idea which Spanish accent they were attempting. Focus on getting main pronunciation right, especially the vowels and the r and you're 99% of the way there - whether or not you choose to use the 'th' pronunciation for c and z is beside the point ('s' is pronounced like 's' in all Spanish variants - they are not lisping). Know it's a variant, just like 'll' is pronounced more like 'zh' than 'y' in some places (South America, not Spain). I do find the 'th' pronunciation of 'c' and 'z' helpful, because it makes it even easier to know how things are spelled, as then there's a unique sound for 'z' and 's'. (and 'z' in Spanish is never pronounced like 'z' in English - it's soft 's' or 'th')

 

 

 

I totally agree that (older) students should learn the vosotros form at least to the point that they can recognize and understand it. My point is more about teaching conversational Spanish to younger students. If I were to teach my children to use 'vosotros' for the plural you, then that would put a small barrier between them practicing with 100% of the Spanish speakers they've met so far. Of course they could still understand eachother, but I think its much better for them to use the verb forms that will be reinforced with them in real life. If they are going to reach any level of fluency, then one or the other is going to be the 'natural' one for them, and to me it makes complete sense for that to be 'ustedes' rather than 'vosotros'. I learned vosotros in school and am glad I did. I will probably teach my kids about it in high school. Like you said it isn't that hard to go through quickly. But I really don't see the point in teaching it to them now. If I didn't use 'vos' at home, I certainly would not teach them about that until high school either.

 

As a totally irrelevant nitpicky aside, the conjugations for 'vos' are very closely linked to the infinitives, with very few exceptions...so learning the peninsular 'vosotros' as a way to learn the rioplatense 'vos' seems like more work to me, not less :)

 

 

Not quite. "Los" is the direct object pronoun; you want the indirect object pronoun "les" here. So "les quiero". "Os quiero" is correct for Spain, though.

 

I'm sorry, that's incorrect....to say "I love you" to more than one child you'd say " Los quiero (a Uds.) I'm not an expert on variations in grammar from place to place...I know there are areas in Spain that use "leísmo" and use 'le' when it should be 'lo' and vice versa--I don't know a lot about that. But "los quiero" would be the standard Latin American way of saying it unless there are some country variations I don't know about.

[Pen]

...

I personally use vos with my kids because that is how I speak, but all of the resources available to me use 'tú' so that is mainly what they're learning. That's fine with me because that is what most people use who they will speak to.

 

How do you guys do the accent marks and tildas and so on?

 

Vos is singular in place of tu`?

 

 

I totally agree that (older) students should learn the vosotros form at least to the point that they can recognize and understand it. My point is more about teaching conversational Spanish to younger students. If I were to teach my children to use 'vosotros' for the plural you, then that would put a small barrier between them practicing with 100% of the Spanish speakers they've met so far. Of course they could still understand eachother, but I think its much better for them to use the verb forms that will be reinforced with them in real life. If they are going to reach any level of fluency, then one or the other is going to be the 'natural' one for them, and to me it makes complete sense for that to be 'ustedes' rather than 'vosotros'. I learned vosotros in school and am glad I did. I will probably teach my kids about it in high school. Like you said it isn't that hard to go through quickly. But I really don't see the point in teaching it to them now. If I didn't use 'vos' at home, I certainly would not teach them about that until high school either.

 

As a totally irrelevant nitpicky aside, the conjugations for 'vos' are very closely linked to the infinitives, with very few exceptions...so learning the peninsular 'vosotros' as a way to learn the rioplatense 'vos' seems like more work to me, not less :)

 

 

 

I'm sorry, that's incorrect....to say "I love you" to more than one child you'd say " Los quiero (a Uds.) I'm not an expert on variations in grammar from place to place...I know there are areas in Spain that use "leísmo" and use 'le' when it should be 'lo' and vice versa--I don't know a lot about that. But "los quiero" would be the standard Latin American way of saying it unless there are some country variations I don't know about.

 

That is what the person I asked said--"los" is what sounds right to her, and other options sound wrong. Beyond that, it would be correct to use a direct object in that sentence.

[Ariston]

Vos is singular in place of tu`?

 

Yes. :) So to sum up since this thread has gotten a little confusing:

 

Peninsular Spanish (SPain):

1st sing.:Yo pl: Nosotros

2nd sing: Tú (inf.) or Usted (form.) pl: Vosotros (inf.) or Ustedes (form.)

3rd sing: Él or Ella pl: Ellos or Ellas

 

Latin American (non 'vos' countries):

1st sing.:Yo pl: Nosotros

2nd sing: Tú (inf.) or Usted (form.) pl: Ustedes (inf. or formal)

3rd sing: Él or Ella pl: Ellos or Ellas

 

 

Latin American (countries that use vos, e.g. Uruguay, Argentina, Nicaragua, Honduras...):

1st sing.:Yo pl: Nosotros

2nd sing: Vos (inf.) or Usted (form.) pl: Ustedes (inf. or formal)

3rd sing: Él or Ella pl: Ellos or Ellas

 

 

Many of the countries that use vos also use 'tú', or it varies by geographic area which is more common. However the country that my family is from (Uruguay) exclusively uses vos.

 

Sorry, I'm trying to edit that in a way that makes sense visually but don't seem to be able to. :glare:

[JDoe]

This looks like a lot of fun!!!!! How do you use it for learning, or do you just read it together? Can one get comic books of it, and if so, from where?

 

I would just use it as supplement to make things more "fun", or to get the interest up. There are other comics that will do the job too, Mafalda was mentioned.

 

http://www.amazon.co...ortadel,aps,374

 

Ariston and JDoe, thank you for the links for more on genders, and Spanish differences! "Vos" is the plural form for you in Portuguese, I wonder if that influenced Argentina.

 

I don't think so, except that Vos-otros makes "you others", that is the Spanish tacked on others to the same word origin that remain in Portugal and that became the Vos of Rio de la Plata - area

 

http://en.wikipedia....and_possessives

 

http://en.wikipedia...._and_Portuguese

 

 

It seems to me that the explanation that this somehow grew out from Vos-otros seem to be correct as one can note traces of same in the conjugations of Vos (which I thought were just poor Spanish), probably related to the formal/informal type of address

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%E2%80%93V_distinction#Spanish

[Ariston]

How do you guys do the accent marks and tildas and so on?

 

I think it might depend on whether you have a PC or Mac and maybe even what version of windows you have, but I think there are two main ways to do it. I have my keyboard set to 'international', so that if I type an apostrophe and then an 'e', it comes out as é. (I don't remember how to change your keyboard, you'd have to google that.) There is also a list of shortcuts that you can use, such as alt+164 for the ñ, but like I said I'm not sure if that's just a PC thing...

[Matryoshka]

I totally agree that (older) students should learn the vosotros form at least to the point that they can recognize and understand it. My point is more about teaching conversational Spanish to younger students. If I were to teach my children to use 'vosotros' for the plural you, then that would put a small barrier between them practicing with 100% of the Spanish speakers they've met so far. Of course they could still understand eachother, but I think its much better for them to use the verb forms that will be reinforced with them in real life. If they are going to reach any level of fluency, then one or the other is going to be the 'natural' one for them, and to me it makes complete sense for that to be 'ustedes' rather than 'vosotros'. I learned vosotros in school and am glad I did. I will probably teach my kids about it in high school. Like you said it isn't that hard to go through quickly. But I really don't see the point in teaching it to them now. If I didn't use 'vos' at home, I certainly would not teach them about that until high school either.

 

We're actually in agreement, then. If we're talking kid immersion, yes, I'm with you, just speak as you'd hear around you normally. I was thinking more once one started on verb tables and memorizing full conjugations, like -o, -as, -a, -amos, -áis, -an. I can't even recite that without including the vosotros! My first immersion experience was in Mexico, after already learning it in high school, and I had no problem just using Uds. all the time. And when I lived in Spain, had no problem switching to vosotros.

 

 

As a totally irrelevant nitpicky aside, the conjugations for 'vos' are very closely linked to the infinitives, with very few exceptions...so learning the peninsular 'vosotros' as a way to learn the rioplatense 'vos' seems like more work to me, not less :)

 

Well, I don't know that I'd argue learning vosotros just to learn vos, but heck, all verb conjugations are closely linked to the infinitives! It's just that the vos form for ar/er verbs is just the vosotros form minus the "i", but also with the accent on the same letter.. Vosotros tenéis, vos tenés; vosotros cerráis, vos cerrás. It also doesn't stem change like the vosotros form (but unlike the tú form): tú tienes, vos tenés; tú cierras, vos cerrás - much more different. And actually for ir verbs, the forms are identical - vosotros decís, vos decís.

 

 

I'm sorry, that's incorrect....to say "I love you" to more than one child you'd say " Los quiero (a Uds.) I'm not an expert on variations in grammar from place to place...I know there are areas in Spain that use "leísmo" and use 'le' when it should be 'lo' and vice versa--I don't know a lot about that. But "los quiero" would be the standard Latin American way of saying it unless there are some country variations I don't know about.

 

Hehe... looked it up, and yes, turns out that's one more slight grammatical difference between Spain/Latin America. Spain uses 'le' there and Latin America uses 'lo'. So there's that too, apparently.

[Pen]

What would you recommend for a Spanish-English, English-Spanish dictionary?

[Pen]

I am wondering if the reason I cannot get Visual Link is that it only works on PCs and I have MAC.

[Pen]

A good find to let others know about: Easy Spanish Reader by William T. Tardy. Starts with a 2 paragraph passage, part of a little "story" about some students taking Spanish in high school--then gradually progresses to one page passages, adding words and tenses. After the part about the students come passages on history of Mexico (with more past tense practice), and then an adaptation for beginners of a fictional tale Lazarillo de Tormes.

 

It is a bit hard yet (and a little boring) for my 11 year old beginner, but I think he will get there within this next year. For me it is a good feeling to be able to read some history in Spanish and understand it!

 

I wish I could find more things like this, including some that are arranged like this with a steady progression of difficulty, but with middle school protagonists.

[Pen]

Dear experts or more advanced than I am hive members,

Here is another, "How would you say this in Spanish?" question. These are common things my son says or variations of these at least once daily, that he could practice in Spanish, but I don't want to tell him a way that would be wrong either grammatically or idiomatically.

 

1) I'm going to ride my bike to [Paul's, Maria's] house and back. / I'm riding to John's. / I'm going to John's now.

 

2) I'm taking Rover to the field. / I'm going to the field with Rover.

 

Guesses on my part are:

 

Voy andar en mi bicicleta a la casa de Paul [o otro nombre] y vuelta. / Voy montar en bicicleta a la casa de Juan. / Ya voy a la casa de Juan.

 

Voy llevar a Rover al campo. / Ya voy al campo con Rover.

 

 

?????

[JDoe]

Minor differences only and yours is perfectly understandable

 

1) Voy en bicicleta hasta la casa de Pablo y vuelvo. / Voy a visitar Juan en bici(-cleta) / Voy a casa de Juan ahora.

 

2) Voy a llevar Rover hasta el campo / Voy al campo con Rover.

[Pen]

Minor differences only and yours is perfectly understandable

 

1) Voy en bicicleta hasta la casa de Pablo y vuelvo. / Voy a visitar Juan en bici(-cleta) / Voy a casa de Juan ahora.

 

2) Voy a llevar Rover hasta el campo / Voy al campo con Rover.

 

 

 

Thank you!!!

[Pen]

And also, is it true that I can change the "Voy" to "Vas" in each of those and ask it as a question, to which he could give the above as a reply?

 

 

Or in the case of taking the dog to the field, could I also make it a request with "Por favor" ?

If I do that, do I have to make it imperative, " Ve al campo con Rover, por favor." or " Lleve Rover hasta el campo, por favor."

or does it become Por favor de + infinitive "Por favor de llevar Rover hasta el campo. El necesita ejercicio." or "Por favor de ir al campo con Rover."

... or something else?

[JDoe]

And also, is it true that I can change the "Voy" to "Vas" in each of those and ask it as a question, to which he could give the above as a reply?

 

Yes, though you would need to change volver also

 

Or in the case of taking the dog to the field, could I also make it a request with "Por favor" ?

I would use por favor, puedes ...

 

If I do that, do I have to make it imperative, " Ve al campo con Rover, por favor." or " Lleve Rover hasta el campo, por favor."

Vete , llevate implies an order, he does not have any options but to comply, the above he would do it only if he want to do so.

 

or does it become Por favor de + infinitive "Por favor de llevar Rover hasta el campo. El necesita ejercicio." or "Por favor de ir al campo con Rover."

No

 

... or something else?

 

There is plenty of "something else" out there.