TOG, Biblioplan, Etc.--What's the Point?

[momacacia]

I'm ready to settle into the history cycles with DD#1. I think I will likely end up in TOG, for high school if not before, but also like the 3x/week of Biblioplan's history and the seeming ease of the program for planniing.

 

I look over all these teacher guides for currics like TOB, Biblio, WP, etc., and I always see SOTW or MOH as "spines" for these programs, with additional literature and projects, maps, timelines, lapbooks, activities. However, MOH and SOTW already have those things in their TM or activity guides, correct?

 

So, what is the point of currics like TOG or Biblio or WP in 4th grade? I understand at logic or rhetoric levels and jr. high/high school the teacher notes, heavier discussion and more reading are really important to the program. But if the spines already have additional reading and activities for lower grades, why all the additional hoopla?

 

Trying to keep it simple . . . ;-)

[MeganW]

We decided to use BiblioPlan this year with SOTW Ancients, because I wanted to really tie in the Bible to history. I was not at all confident about trying to do that myself, because I came through public school where all mentions of anything religious were excluded. For example, I had no idea that the Crusades had anything to do with religion. I thought it was just people fighting over land. That kind of stuff scares me - I have no idea what other holes there are in my own knowledge, and knowing that SOTW is basically secular, I didn't want my kids to have those same holes.

 

That being said, I found BiblioPlan to be just too too too much for us at this age. A quarter of the way through, we ditched it and went to straight SOTW. Along with the activity guide, it has been a WONDERFUL experience - way more interesting than anything I ever got in school!

[Dahliarw]

I used just straight SOTW for the past two years. Next year I plan to use Biblioplan. I like how Biblioplan lumps together like areas (it's not completely chronological, which is what I wanted, SOTW jumps around from region to region too much and it's confusing). It was also really confusing looking at huge lists of books in SOTW. Biblioplan's booklist was more concise, and had better descriptions of the books, and had them grouped by grade level. There were so many times I'd get a book from the library that was listed in the SOTW AG and it just wouldn't work for my child and I had no idea until I had it in my hand. The final reason I chose Biblioplan is because I want to go more in depth with some of the aspects of American History next year, and Biblioplan schedules both "A History of US" and SOTW, and I plan to use them both in part. I did spend time going through Biblioplan and mapping out my year, mostly because I knew we would not be doing every single recommended book (just too much), but it was way easier to do and less "guessing" Then with straight SOTW.

[happymomofboys]

If I my oldest was still in the grammar stage, I wouldn't bother with TOG. I went with Sonlight in those years, and TOG was a nice fit after Sonlight when I needed to combine my children. TOG suggests SOTW as an alternate/supplement to the main curriculum. We use the text only, not the activity book. Because the TOG sequence is slightly different, we end up reading the chapters out of order. If you like SOTW and it's a good fit for your kids, I don't think you'd need anything else for the grammar stage.

[boscopup]

I tried Biblioplan my first year of homeschooling. I had an advanced 1st grader who loved history. My reason for choosing BP was that it supposedly would tie in Biblical history with SOTW.

 

Well, once we really got into it, I did not like it. We did about 11 weeks or so, and here were my problems:

 

1) The Blbical tie-in really wasn't there. They simply had you read the Bible alongside SOTW. Well, I can get a chart that does that for free on Paula's Archives.

2) The Bible readings were so numerous at certain points that it really bogged us down and was just TOO MUCH. We weren't learning anything or making connections.

3) The k-2 readers were most just retellings of the Bible story we had just read. If we have read the story straight from the Bible, why does our reader need to be a retelling of the same thing? I wanted something *different*, to expand our knowledge.

4) I was using the library, and year 1 doesn't work well for that. The library didn't have most of the books (again, which were mostly retellings of Bible stories).

5) Their timeline was weird.

6) My son started to dislike history.

 

Finally, I dropped BP, and we started reading SOTW at a pace of one section of a chapter per week. I'd pull out 2-3 library books from the AG (which were NOT just reading the same thing we just read, but instead were expanding our historical knowledge). My son would read the Usborne encyclopedia per the AG (he loved it). And we read Egermeier's Bible Story Book at a pace of one story per day. So we were in different time periods between Bible and secular history, BUT... my 1st grader started to make connections between the two on his own! We just had to slow the pace down! This was definitely a case of less is more. My son loves history again. He really started to enjoy SOTW when we were NOT trying to also cram in 10+ Bible stories at the same time.

 

I do plan to try TOG the year after next, when my oldest is 5th grade. I want the teacher notes for discussions, and I like that everyone is together and it's easy to move between levels as needed. It's also easier in the lower levels to substitute books as needed, when using the library. My oldest will probably use a combination of UG and D level stuff, and we may ease into D level discussions if he's ready sometime that year. I know he'll at least need the D level readings for much of it. He loves history, reads all the time, and is a fast reader. I think TOG will be perfect for him. Meanwhile, my younger children (then K and 2nd) will do SOTW as scheduled in the UG section, and I'll get some LG books (or substitutes) from the library. No big deal. I'll keep it light and easy for them.

 

I really like the path I took with my oldest - SOTW 1 and 2, then Sonlight Cores D and E. Then we'll start over with the 4 year cycle. Oldest read SOTW 3 and 4 on his own in 2nd grade (and 3rd - he reads through the series periodically), so I took a detour to US history for a couple years.

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

It's important to remember with TOG (a curriculum I have used for the dialectic levels, UG and LG) that it was written by a homeschool mom with high school students on down. Marcia Somerville created it so she wouldn't go crazy (my words, not hers) homeschooling her houseful. The high school plan drives the pace, and the dialectic-on-down study topics at their level. This way, her whole family could be studying the same topic, engage in projects and activities and still have a robust education (and it is robust).

 

I recommend TOG when your oldest student gets to the dialectic level, then siblings fall into the Grammar levels that are appropriate. I think that there are more enjoyable programs for just grammar level students -- we bailed on TOG when my oldest was in 1st grade for several reasons (many related to the fact that I had just had a baby) but returned to it when he was in 5th grade for our second tour through history. If your oldest is just a grammar student, stick with SOTW or MoH and follow along at that pace.

 

Finally, MoH and SOTW are possible spines for the grammar level in TOG, but there are plenty of other books that are options for grammar. It is a buffet, and you have to pick and chose what you want to use in TOG; no one (including the authors of TOG) has done everything suggested.

[Samiam]

I'm using Biblioplan next year with SOTW....and using SOTW mostly on its own this year. I'm adding BP next year because I want more meat. I personally think that SOTW fluffs over too much...meaning it touches on a topic then jumps to the next thing, without delving in much. I've done a lot of work this year to add more meat to SOTW.....next year I'm letting Biblioplan give me to the meat. They have a great companion spine that will really help fill in gaps that SOTW leaves. We'll still use SoTW because it IS interesting, and I love the mapwork.

[Amy M]

My experience this year is the same as Megan's and boscopup's. We started out using the BP schedule and just dropped it to go straight SOTW w/ AG. But I will be going w/ MFW, and my reasoning is that I want to combine more children, so their book list and TM is better for that. Also, I think the book lists are better, and the Bible and church history (and science) are tied in better. MFW's timing is slower for ancients than BP and TOG, so you're not flying through the Bible and church history as gasping-ly fast as my experience w/ BP this year (like boscopup described).

 

ETA: I also like the extra resources scheduled in these programs. For example, MFW schedules Streams of Civ and Genevieve Foster books; TOG schedules Foster books; and BP lines up several resources including their nice companion.

[TXMary2]

I use TOG for LG and a D/R combo. Even at LG we get so much out of it. SOTW is an alternate resource with TOG. The point for me is it is not just a list of books- so much more is included and it saves me the time of trying to make a bunch of connections myself. For LG I use the vocabulary, the famous people lists, the writing assignments, the readings, the map work, the projects - it's all in one for me and I can easily add other resources if I want to, and I can ignore whatever I don't want to do.

[TracyP]

It's important to remember with TOG (a curriculum I have used for the dialectic levels, UG and LG) that it was written by a homeschool mom with high school students on down. Marcia Somerville created it so she wouldn't go crazy (my words, not hers) homeschooling her houseful. The high school plan drives the pace, and the dialectic-on-down study topics at their level. This way, her whole family could be studying the same topic, engage in projects and activities and still have a robust education (and it is robust).

 

I recommend TOG when your oldest student gets to the dialectic level, then siblings fall into the Grammar levels that are appropriate. I think that there are more enjoyable programs for just grammar level students -- we bailed on TOG when my oldest was in 1st grade for several reasons (many related to the fact that I had just had a baby) but returned to it when he was in 5th grade for our second tour through history. If your oldest is just a grammar student, stick with SOTW or MoH and follow along at that pace.

Yes. Yes. Yes. I used TOG for a little over 3 years starting when my oldest was in K, but have put it aside for now. We enjoyed our time with it and I can't wait to get back to TOG, but it just became too much for me.

 

A couple pluses for starting TOG with youngers. One, I do have all 4 years bought. We had the money available and my other schooling expenses were small. It seems hs'ing gets more expensive as they get older and I'm glad to have that purchase done. Second, I am super comfortable using TOG now. Some find it overwhelming, but I never did and now have no worries about planning when we do get back to it. I also use it as a reference tool from time to time which is kind of nice. I still don't recommend it before oldest is 5th grade, but I don't regret the time I spent using it with youngers either...if that makes sense.

[Kathryn]

 

A couple pluses for starting TOG with youngers. One, I do have all 4 years bought. We had the money available and my other schooling expenses were small. It seems hs'ing gets more expensive as they get older and I'm glad to have that purchase done. Second, I am super comfortable using TOG now. Some find it overwhelming, but I never did and now have no worries about planning when we do get back to it. I also use it as a reference tool from time to time which is kind of nice.

 

These are all reasons that we are using TOG for just a grammar student. I have a history lover and he can't get enough. I love the options TOG gives me. I love that I'll be done purchasing it by the time other expenses ramp up. And I love that I'll already have a good feel for it by the time I'm adding a second student.

[besroma]

We use TOG for LG, UG, and D and love it. I agree with TXMary2 and others who enjoyed it for the lower levels.

 

Another plus is that you will have time to figure out the system and develop a rhythm before the dialectic stage.

[Hedgehogs4]

It's important to remember with TOG (a curriculum I have used for the dialectic levels, UG and LG) that it was written by a homeschool mom with high school students on down. Marcia Somerville created it so she wouldn't go crazy (my words, not hers) homeschooling her houseful. The high school plan drives the pace, and the dialectic-on-down study topics at their level. This way, her whole family could be studying the same topic, engage in projects and activities and still have a robust education (and it is robust).

 

I recommend TOG when your oldest student gets to the dialectic level, then siblings fall into the Grammar levels that are appropriate. I think that there are more enjoyable programs for just grammar level students -- we bailed on TOG when my oldest was in 1st grade for several reasons (many related to the fact that I had just had a baby) but returned to it when he was in 5th grade for our second tour through history. If your oldest is just a grammar student, stick with SOTW or MoH and follow along at that pace.

 

Finally, MoH and SOTW are possible spines for the grammar level in TOG, but there are plenty of other books that are options for grammar. It is a buffet, and you have to pick and chose what you want to use in TOG; no one (including the authors of TOG) has done everything suggested.

 

I cannot add anything to this except that I completely agree with this answer.