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CC Essentials - yea or nay?


abrightmom
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We are joining a new CC Community this fall though the Director and tutors are not new to CC. It is a promising community. :)

 

Essentials was brought to my attention at the info. meeting and I am torn about this. It looks good and it sounds like a necessary prep for Challenge (which is also new to us and we now considering it for 7th/8th).

 

Here is what I don't want:

 

CC EEL to take over my son's life (or mine).

To be in over our head each week with the IEW Medieval writing (on the schedule for Cycle 2) as we are IEW and CC newbies. I also have four kids to teach each day.

 

How much time do you dedicate to Essentials homework daily/weekly?

Should I fear the learning curve and the possibility of Essentials taking over my homeschool?

Is Essentials as good as it looks? I like using IEW at home and we are content with Rod & Staff English. But, accountability would be motivating and the EEL looks awesome.

 

Anything you can contribute from your own experiences would help!! :)

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Yea for us. In response to your questions, I don't know yet. We're joining CC Foundations & Essentials for the first time this fall, so I guess I'll find out soon. I have purchased the Essentials guide, and I've just begun to flip through it. We, too, are comfortable with our current grammar program and writing program (FLL3/WWE 3), but I like the idea of having some external accountability and the support of learning with others; plus, I find the dialectic discussion so much harder to pull-off at home with just one student. The practical advice (how to set up the Essentials binder, for instance) from Brandi at Half-a-Hundred Acre Wood seems like it will be very helpful. Check it out: http://www.halfahundredacrewood.com/2012/05/preparing-for-essentials.html

 

Hopefully some experienced Essentials parents will weigh in...

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We are finishing our second year of Essentials, and while I find the grammar portion very thorough, the IEW writing isn't for us. In a perfect world, for us, the IEW checklist would be a beginning, foundational exercise. Then, DISCERNMENT in when to use dressups and openers would be covered the rest of the year. Requiring all that stuff in every paragraph, over and over throughout the year, is ridiculous. The writing can end up stilted and formulaic, which is why some people say they can spot IEW writing a mile away. Now I know what they're talking about.

 

Personally, I found the multitudes of binders to refer to annoying. I like clean, simple, and to-the-point. We have switched to a combination of SWB's Writing With Skill 1 and MCT. They both really resonate with my son for different reasons. Neither of us like slogging through a long, complicated lesson. Grammar and writing aren't rocket science. There isn't much style taught in Essentials, just the checklist over and over and over.

 

I wanted to like it. It just didn't make grammar and writing come alive for us.

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We are finishing our second year of Essentials, and while I find the grammar portion very thorough, the IEW writing isn't for us. In a perfect world, for us, the IEW checklist would be a beginning, foundational exercise. Then, DISCERNMENT in when to use dressups and openers would be covered the rest of the year. Requiring all that stuff in every paragraph, over and over throughout the year, is ridiculous. The writing can end up stilted and formulaic, which is why some people say they can spot IEW writing a mile away. Now I know what they're talking about.

 

Personally, I found the multitudes of binders to refer to annoying. I like clean, simple, and to-the-point. We have switched to a combination of SWB's Writing With Skill 1 and MCT. They both really resonate with my son for different reasons. Neither of us like slogging through a long, complicated lesson. Grammar and writing aren't rocket science. There isn't much style taught in Essentials, just the checklist over and over and over.

 

I wanted to like it. It just didn't make grammar and writing come alive for us.

 

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I also like clean, simple & to the point, so I wonder if I'll have a similar experience with Essentials? Hmmm.

 

What did/do you and your son think of the math portion of the program? Does he enjoy the games and drill? Has it improved his skills?

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Thanks for sharing your experience. I also like clean, simple & to the point, so I wonder if I'll have a similar experience with Essentials?

 

This resonates with me. I am easily overwhelmed with too many checklists, binders, etc. I love and need "to the point" and easy to teach. I do, however, like IEW so far. But, it has always been my intention to move to WWS in 6th grade or so. :)

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We are in your same situation and I am 95% sure we will not do Essentials for ds9, at least for the first half of the year. This is our 2nd year using IEW and I love how it gets the kids writing, but I fear year after year of it could put us in a rut. Our plan is to use WWS and I am not sure how well it would go using both together. Plus I am more lenient on the IEW assignments in not "forcing" them to do or not do what IEW says to do if it makes the sentence sound forced or awkward...I am not sure an Essentials tutor would be the same way. The grammar portion of Essentials does look good but I am not sure that for us it would make it worth doing the whole program.

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We did Foundations this year and next year will do Essentials. I desperately need the accountability IRT our writing - I know *how* to do it; it's just not getting done. However, I do understand the concerns stated above. I taught 8th grade grammar/English for six years and am confident in my ability to work within the IEW framework without becoming overly formulaic. I also know our tutor well enough that my allowing DS to NOT become formulaic will not upset him. He may give me a hard time (jokingly), but I'll give it back to him. He's pretty laid back, so I'm not worried.

 

Good luck in your decision!

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I also plan to use WWS with my daughter eventually, but she will just turn 9 in October- much too young to start WWS (based on the feedback on this and the logic stage forum). She is still using WWE and benefitting greatly, but I think there will need to be a gap-filler for the next couple years. Hopefully IEW (via Essentials) will fit the bill.

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We love Essentials! We love the grammar and the writing. We love the accountability especially. There are several times we persevered through papers I know we would have abandoned had we been doing them on our own. I think you should try to go see one if there's an open house opportunity. I think you probably do need to be committed to it or you won't like it. I did really make CC the center of our homeschool this year. When we did CC several years ago we were in Foundations only and looked at it as an "add-on" and I found that frustrating. This year I made Essentials a priority. I also made Foundations memory work more of a priority than ever before. My other priorities were: our morning meeting time (Bible, History Read aloud, Literature read aloud, memory work review), math lessons, reading lessons for my 7yo, 4th and 5th graders kept literature books going on their own, spelling has been completed 90% of the time. It has felt like a very balanced year. In hindsight the only thing I would do differently is require more of my 4th and 5th graders on their presentations.

 

I went into Essentials knowing it would be challenging and knowing I would make it a priority. If you're going into it with a different hope, then I think it's harder to predict if you will like it or not.

 

ETA: by the way, that doesn't mean we spent tons of time every day. We were as efficient as we could be with the grammar. We definitely could have spent more time than we did. But, I always remembered we were first year students (especially my 4th grader) and we have two more years to master it. I would estimate we spend ~20 minute daily on grammar work and ~30 minute daily for IEW work. Of course some days varied.

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Thanks for sharing your experience. I also like clean, simple & to the point, so I wonder if I'll have a similar experience with Essentials? Hmmm.

 

What did/do you and your son think of the math portion of the program? Does he enjoy the games and drill? Has it improved his skills?

 

He liked the math games, but remember they are only 30 minutes. It's good for them to get up and run around because the grammar is a real brain drain. IMO, it's not worth $500 for a class I'm only partially utilizing. His brain is so fried by the afternoon that he isn't absorbing the grammar content in class. If I'm teaching/reteaching everything at home, why pay for the class?

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Thank-you so much for sharing all of this with me.

 

Lynn,

 

If you see this will you tell me what you think of jumping into IEW with Medieval? We only just started the SWI and due to a time consuming move we aren't getting very far before I need to lay it down. Medieval looks tough and we are essentially newbies to IEW. Looking at IEW's site I see that Medieval is considered Level B so that adds to my concern about being a first year Essentials family with this particular IEW theme.

 

ETA: Do you intend to move on to Challenge A Lynn? I just recently learned about Essentials and Challenge and am reeling a bit with the decisions. I originally looked at CC for the community and teaching support. I also like the memory work. I hope to let it complement our homeschool but wonder if my expectations are way off.

 

How do you implement content Lynn? Basically, what do you do with your middle kids daily/weekly in the content areas?

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I'm a long-term Essentials tutor, and don't be intimidated by the IEW book. Every assignment can be scaled. I always give my first year students a scaled-down option on the assignment. They sometimes do one paragraph with 2 dress-ups and 2-openers, or I have them do the full outline, and then do only the introduction and one paragraph. So there is always some way of adjusting. I've heard that some campuses don't encourage that (they should), so be sure to ask the tutor what they do for reluctant, first-time students who may struggle with the writing.

 

Even as an IEW teacher, I definitely found that my own children wrote better in a class setting than they did at home. And the grammar has really paid off in their Latin studies. My oldest is a gold medal winner on the National Latin Exam and will be taking AP Latin next year. We decided to make other choices for high school, but I have no regrets about our years in CC.

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I'm a long-term Essentials tutor, and don't be intimidated by the IEW book. Every assignment can be scaled. I always give my first year students a scaled-down option on the assignment. They sometimes do one paragraph with 2 dress-ups and 2-openers, or I have them do the full outline, and then do only the introduction and one paragraph. So there is always some way of adjusting. I've heard that some campuses don't encourage that (they should), so be sure to ask the tutor what they do for reluctant, first-time students who may struggle with the writing.

 

Even as an IEW teacher, I definitely found that my own children wrote better in a class setting than they did at home. And the grammar has really paid off in their Latin studies. My oldest is a gold medal winner on the National Latin Exam and will be taking AP Latin next year. We decided to make other choices for high school, but I have no regrets about our years in CC.

 

This is encouraging! I have a message in to the Director and hope to chat with the Essentials tutor ASAP. I think we are getting an experienced Essentials tutor with an excellent reputation so I am hopeful that she will know how to modify expectations.

 

Did you use Challenge A and B? I am not interested in CC for high school at this point either as I have other hopes and plans. But, Challenge holds promise for preparing the kids in areas I won't be ale to.

 

What Latin is suggested to study alongside CC? I like Visual Latin for the short lessons and ease of use. Or I am considering outsourcing to Veritas or Memoria Press though their online programs. :)

 

 

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CC sells Latin's Not So Tough but I have also seen them recommend other programs in other places. In Challenge at all levels they use Henle. It says in the Foundations guide that they suggest you start a Latin program by 4th grade, but it is in no way pushed at the CC campuses we have been at (3 now because of moves). In fact, many moms were surprised that I was doing Latin with my 2nd and 3rd graders. Many kids enter Challenge with no Latin background or only the memory work from Foundations. We use LNST in our house and I love it! But the reviews aren't the greatest online because book 3 is written in an immersion style where the grammar is not explained. The explanations are in the full answer key, though and I choose to teach it to my students rather than have them figure it out. But in the 4th book it teaches the grammar explicitly. Also, many people start at level 3 and get overwhelmed because it starts off reviewing from level 2 and that is a lot of words all at once. We started with level 1 and just flew through it and I thought it was great! It only did the alphabet and "special sounds" and focused on pronunciation and I think that time spent was worth it. Up until recently (about 1/4 of the way through book 3) it has been almost completely independent and I only check it when they get to a quiz. I'm assuming that it will go back to being more independent in book 4 when they teach the grammar explicitly. My second child is getting the hang of it much faster than my oldest because my oldest has a learning disability, but I understand what I am doing from the answer key explanations and so I think it has done a great job of baby steps with lots of repetition and I understand how to baby step her through it until she gets it.

 

We have not done Essentials but we are doing it next year and I own the manual. All I can say is that over and over again I have run into people who talk about how beneficial and thorough Essentials was for their child and I am really excited to start! I know I'm going to learn a ton next year and I also know that my oldest will be overwhelmed in class, but because I get to be there and I have the teacher's manual I will be able to walk her through it at home at her own pace and at her own level and allow her to take all three years to fully grasp the concepts. There are few (if any) other programs that allow children to be immersed in it and give them time to grow into it......It has the motivation of a classroom environment while leaving the parent's authority in tact. Love it!

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This is encouraging! I have a message in to the Director and hope to chat with the Essentials tutor ASAP. I think we are getting an experienced Essentials tutor with an excellent reputation so I am hopeful that she will know how to modify expectations.

 

Did you use Challenge A and B? I am not interested in CC for high school at this point either as I have other hopes and plans. But, Challenge holds promise for preparing the kids in areas I won't be ale to.

 

What Latin is suggested to study alongside CC? I like Visual Latin for the short lessons and ease of use. Or I am considering outsourcing to Veritas or Memoria Press though their online programs. :)

 

My oldest did Challenge A through I. He didn't have any Latin other than Foundations when he started Challenge A. At that point he took off so quickly that we actually went outside for Latin past Challenge A. He hated Latin's Not So Tough (what they used then), and Henle didn't go fast enough for him.

 

This year in Challenge A I'm having the same issue with the next one. Henle doesn't go fast enough and she doesn't want to do Henle I again (I did most of Henle I with her in 5th-6th grade). And most of the seminars in Challenge B are not that good a fit for this kid, so we're doing mix-and-match for 8th grade.

 

I like Latin for Children or Latin Alive from what I know of them, but I haven't used them. We're going to use Latin Alive as our summer program for my younger one, so we'll see.

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Thanks for the Latin recs. Goodness, this is taking over my entire life this week. I just expected to sign up for CC Foundations and let it ride. So many opportunities and turns in the road ahead now.....

 

I still like Visual Latin. But, I will look at LNST....

 

Would I consider enrolling both boys in Essentials then? My middle son turns 9 in May though he isn't a 4th grader yet.... I wonder if it would be efficient to combine the teaching in Essentials and then work between the two boys at their learning levels. My oldest will likely take to the EEL portion easily and be able to dig deeper (Tasks 1-4) but the younger would not go as deep.

 

 

 

Shaina, congrats on the birth of your baby girl! =)

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My oldest did Challenge A through I. He didn't have any Latin other than Foundations when he started Challenge A. At that point he took off so quickly that we actually went outside for Latin past Challenge A. He hated Latin's Not So Tough (what they used then), and Henle didn't go fast enough for him.

 

This year in Challenge A I'm having the same issue with the next one. Henle doesn't go fast enough and she doesn't want to do Henle I again (I did most of Henle I with her in 5th-6th grade). And most of the seminars in Challenge B are not that good a fit for this kid, so we're doing mix-and-match for 8th grade.

 

I like Latin for Children or Latin Alive from what I know of them, but I haven't used them. We're going to use Latin Alive as our summer program for my younger one, so we'll see.

 

Did you know Latin prior to teaching? It is new to me and I honestly don't have time to dig too deep which is why Visual Latin appeals to me. I jave researched Latin to death. :) I worked through the sample lessons for VL and it was great: short lessons and minimal teacher prep. I can keep up. I used to think I'd use LFC but it isn't well reviewed here and I was scared off. I wish I could understand why. It looks fun!

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Did you know Latin prior to teaching? It is new to me and I honestly don't have time to dig too deep which is why Visual Latin appeals to me. I jave researched Latin to death. :) I worked through the sample lessons for VL and it was great: short lessons and minimal teacher prep. I can keep up. I used to think I'd use LFC but it isn't well reviewed here and I was scared off. I wish I could understand why. It looks fun!

 

Actually I didn't know Latin, but I grew up in a multi-lingual household, and minored in German literature in college. And obviously I enjoy grammar. So we figured it out.

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Thank-you so much for sharing all of this with me.

 

Lynn,

 

If you see this will you tell me what you think of jumping into IEW with Medieval? We only just started the SWI and due to a time consuming move we aren't getting very far before I need to lay it down. Medieval looks tough and we are essentially newbies to IEW. Looking at IEW's site I see that Medieval is considered Level B so that adds to my concern about being a first year Essentials family with this particular IEW theme.

 

ETA: Do you intend to move on to Challenge A Lynn? I just recently learned about Essentials and Challenge and am reeling a bit with the decisions. I originally looked at CC for the community and teaching support. I also like the memory work. I hope to let it complement our homeschool but wonder if my expectations are way off.

 

How do you implement content Lynn? Basically, what do you do with your middle kids daily/weekly in the content areas?

 

I'm a long-term Essentials tutor, and don't be intimidated by the IEW book. Every assignment can be scaled. I always give my first year students a scaled-down option on the assignment. They sometimes do one paragraph with 2 dress-ups and 2-openers, or I have them do the full outline, and then do only the introduction and one paragraph. So there is always some way of adjusting. I've heard that some campuses don't encourage that (they should), so be sure to ask the tutor what they do for reluctant, first-time students who may struggle with the writing.

 

Even as an IEW teacher, I definitely found that my own children wrote better in a class setting than they did at home. And the grammar has really paid off in their Latin studies. My oldest is a gold medal winner on the National Latin Exam and will be taking AP Latin next year. We decided to make other choices for high school, but I have no regrets about our years in CC.

 

:iagree:

 

In addition to your tutor modifying assignments for 1st year students, there are also "level A" and "level B" assignments in the Medieval History-Based Writing Lessons. Plus, the decision should always be up to you as the parent if you want to modify something for your child.

 

Your other questions...

 

Yes, I have one going into Challenge A next year and my oldest will do Challenge 2 even though he never did Challenge A, B, or 1. We did CC when he was in Foundations and then took a break from it because I was so sure I didn't want the Challenge program. After trying several different approaches to the Logic stage at home and after trying a more "traditional" co-op situation, I am more than willing to re-consider the benefits of CC's Challenge program, LOL. But, I wouldn't worry about that too much yet. You have a couple years to enjoy Foundation and Essentials first and then take a closer look at Challenge. You know I thought my oldest (a history lover) would miss history if he had done Challenge A and B, but in hindsight I'm not sure he loved anything we tried for history in the Logic Stage because he had already read so much on his own. My 2nd ds has been so motivated this year by the friendly competition in Foundations and Essentials, that I'm thrilled for him to move on to Challenge A. It has been great to see him "bloom."

 

Back to thinking about Foundations.... You asked what I do during the week for content. I am probably more laid back on content now than I was with my oldest. I used to think that the CM way, learning in context, reading great stories and well written narrative histories was the way to more solid "knowing" rather than drilling facts out of context. Then one day I was going through some old history notebooking pages we had done when my oldest walked by and asked me what I was looking at. When I told him, he had no memory of the great output we had accomplished just a year or two before. I realized that while there was a benefit to many of the things we had read and done together, solid memory wasn't necessarily one of them. So, I see the point of CC's memory work now more than I did several years ago. This year I've tried to emphasize the memory work at home and still squeeze in some read alouds - some great stories and some narrative history and feel good about balancing that. My "morning time" consisted of a 4yo, 7yo, 9yo and 11yo. To make sure I didn't lose my 4yo and 7yo, I chose to read Hillyer as our main history spine (I didn't want to lose them in too many details). I also read Grandpa's Box aloud (though I did not perfectly co-ordinate them the way HOD does). Grandpa's Box was our "Bible" reading. When we finished that (we had started it back in the summer), I started back at Creation with the Golden Children's Bible. I had also originally planned to do notebook pages (either writing summaries or outlining) with CC's timeline cards. (By finding the image from the card online, copying it into WORD and printing out a page to take notes on or summarize). I also used the Usborne Ancient World Encyclopedia (or something like that). We dropped the notebooking pages pretty quickly into the year because my 4yo and 7yo would not let me "simplify" it for them and it was taking forever for them to write as much as I wanted to 4th and 5th grader to write. I finally decided that IEW was enough for building writing skills and I dropped the notebooking. (Hindsight, it wouldn't have been a bad idea for 4th and 5th grader to continue that on their own, but I wanted IEW to get their best efforts and I didn't want them overloaded.) We also listened to Diana Waring cds whenever they fit in with Hillyer. I also read aloud various literature like, D'Aulaire's Greek Myths, Titus: Comrade of the Cross, etc... My 4th and 5th grader also read ancient related literature on their own (Rosemary Sutcliff books, etc.). For history you could co-ordinate to the weekly history sentences, or you could use the CC timeline as your spine and just get through as much as you want any given year. Also, not sure if I mentioned it before, but a lot of families in our CC made use of the Veritas Press self-paced classes online for history. Science content - I did not do as much as I had originally planned, but you could use RS4K or Apologia's (younger series) or even Let's Read and Find Out books, or just library books related to CC's science topics. Or you could do something entirely different at home. It's fine.

 

Not sure if all that rambling is helpful about content or not.

 

Since Latin also came up in the thread, my .02 is that you definitely don't have to do Latin if you don't want to. The only Latin I've used with the kids that I liked was GSWL, but there's nothing like it to go to when you're finished. I think it's hard to find anyone who likes LNST very much.... notice that CC doesn't use it anymore at the Challenge level. I know at least one family in our CC who uses Visual Latin and really likes it. I haven't looked at it, but if it appeals to you over other programs, give it a shot!

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Lynn,

 

You have always been so helpful and a voice of reason. Thank-you!

 

Okay, I have two more questions as a result of discovering more about how Essentials works including the Levels within IEW Medieval.

 

My middle guy will be 9 this May and is about a month into third grade. Now I am thinking that I'd like to enroll him in Essentials. It would challenge him content wise but he isn't pencil phobic. It seems possible that I could teach my boys one room schoolhouse style using EEL and IEW..... But keep them "on level". Is this a good or a bad idea? Is 9y3m too young? Pros and cons?

 

Are there any writing or grammar Pre-requisites for Essentials? Could I drop what we are doing now if I do enroll them? Should I make sure we know parts of speech or ....? Should I drop English and put our time block into IEW for the next 2-3 months?

 

I have GSWL.... ;)

 

We are figuring this out here! Thanks for the help. I am very blessed by the opportunity to join a CC Community. :)

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Okay, I have two more questions as a result of discovering more about how Essentials works including the Levels within IEW Medieval.

 

My middle guy will be 9 this May and is about a month into third grade. Now I am thinking that I'd like to enroll him in Essentials. It would challenge him content wise but he isn't pencil phobic. It seems possible that I could teach my boys one room schoolhouse style using EEL and IEW..... But keep them "on level". Is this a good or a bad idea? Is 9y3m too young? Pros and cons?

 

Are there any writing or grammar Pre-requisites for Essentials? Could I drop what we are doing now if I do enroll them? Should I make sure we know parts of speech or ....? Should I drop English and put our time block into IEW for the next 2-3 months?

 

I have GSWL.... ;)

 

We are figuring this out here! Thanks for the help. I am very blessed by the opportunity to join a CC Community. :)

 

Yes, it is reasonable to enroll a 9 y.o. in Essentials, especially if they are reading easy chapter books or better. If you have a good tutor who is able to handle the different levels, there is no reason to delay. People often get intimidated by Essentials, but it is infinitely flexible and can easily be scaled. It really does improve with repetition. My youngest did Essentials four times, and I have no regrets that way. At that time they encouraged 3rd graders to enroll. Now they pretty much require that they be in 4th grade, but that is flexible if the child is an older 3rd grader and especially if they have a sibling in the program. As your local folks though what they prefer.

 

There are no prerequisites, although I always like to ask what they've done before for my own information. If you're going to do some prep, you could get the materials and work on the definitions. That would be plenty.

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Yes, it is reasonable to enroll a 9 y.o. in Essentials, especially if they are reading easy chapter books or better. If you have a good tutor who is able to handle the different levels, there is no reason to delay. People often get intimidated by Essentials, but it is infinitely flexible and can easily be scaled. It really does improve with repetition. My youngest did Essentials four times, and I have no regrets that way. At that time they encouraged 3rd graders to enroll. Now they pretty much require that they be in 4th grade, but that is flexible if the child is an older 3rd grader and especially if they have a sibling in the program. As your local folks though what they prefer.

 

There are no prerequisites, although I always like to ask what they've done before for my own information. If you're going to do some prep, you could get the materials and work on the definitions. That would be plenty.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I know some of our families have placed (or will place) their 3rd graders in Essentials. I agree that when the 3rd grader is older or a sibling of one already in Essentials it makes a lot of sense. Of my current two in Essentials, one would probably have been fine doing it in the 3rd grade, the other one maybe not. Just remember that he/she doesn't have to get it all the first year!

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Thanks ladies. I find this decision to be very difficult. I wonder if my CC expectations are realistic....

 

Is it possible to teach EEL to my 3rd grader at home with his older brother? I don't want to put him in IEW Medieval or push him too hard but I like the looks of Essentials very much. It would mean not spending so much money and those funds could be used to cover materials costs. He can cover writing using WWE or a simpler IEW theme on a slower schedule.

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Is it possible to teach EEL to my 3rd grader at home with his older brother? I don't want to put him in IEW Medieval or push him too hard but I like the looks of Essentials very much. It would mean not spending so much money and those funds could be used to cover materials costs. He can cover writing using WWE or a simpler IEW theme on a slower schedule.

 

 

Off the record, several of my Essentials families have done this. You can certainly have them learn the memory part of it, dictate sentences, and even have them label some at home. The families that I know who did this used the Fables, Myths, and Fairy Tales IEW book.

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