Danielle1746 Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I've used Horizons with all 3 of my kids this year, and we all love it. My oldest son is about to finish up Horizons 6, and I had planned to start him on Horizons Pre-Algebra in the fall (7th grade). However, I just discovered AoPS Pre-Algebra, and I'm trying to decide if I should give it a try instead. My son is pretty quick with picking up math concepts, and his Horizons work is easy for him. He just doesn't enjoy the time it takes to solve a problem, especially since I make him show his work. From what I can tell so far, AoPS would be more likely to challenge him and make him think critically about the concepts he's using, but I hesitate to try it if he's going to balk at the extra effort. So I guess I have a couple questions. 1) Is AoPS that much more advanced than Horizons? If it's not that much different, then I guess it would make sense to just stay with Horizons, since we all like it already. 2) If AoPS is worth the extra work that seems to be involved, should I push him to rise to the challenge? I have no doubt he could handle the concepts academically. I just don't know if he would put forth the work required to do so. Is it worth forcing the issue? Thanks for any input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I haven't use Horizons so I can't compare the two. However I want to point something else out about AoPS readiness which I think is important. That is a child's maturity level. Even if a child is 'good at math' they may not be developmentally ready yet for AoPS including it's Discovery approach and level of challenge. This I think is especially true at the Pre-A level where they are getting introduced to abstract reasoning and algebraic concepts, many for the first time. Both of these go beyond simply being good at math. For example we looked at AoPS Pre-A last year with our ds11 who is also generally good at math. However he simply hadn't matured enough to be able to handle wrestling with problems for extended periods of time or 'discovering' how things work. He got very upset if he couldn't figure out answers the first time, to the point of tears. So this year we worked on those things along with understanding Algebraic concepts using another program, TabletClass Pre-A in our case. It has been during this past school year that I have watched him mature more than any other year. It has literally been growth by leaps and bounds, both cognitively and psychologically. So now I feel he is more ready to be presented with AoPS at the Algebra level which we have just started. But had I thrown AoPS pre-A at him last year as his main program it would have overwhelmed him. This type of maturity and readiness varies greatly from child to child IMO. Lastly, note that while some really like AoPS Pre-A others have found it unnecessarily complicated for the subject matter it covers and the level of student it addresses. We used it only as supplemental to his other program which worked best for ds11. We discovered TabletClass to be quite challenging, that just right challenge for him. As always YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I haven't looked at Horizens specifically, but AoPS challenges and goes deeper than anything else I've seen. AoPS, however, takes a different kind of maturity than other math programs. For some kids, AoPS may be "extra work", but my kids don't find it to be more work. It tends to have fewer problems overall, but much more challenging problems. Some of the problems I think are more complicated than need be for pre-algebra, but only some of the extra challenging ones. My oldest started AoPS before the prealgebra book had come out, but I am now doing prealgebra with my second son. When he wants a "break" from the prealgebra book, he finds Forester's Algebra easier than AoPS prealgebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I haven't looked at Horizens specifically, but AoPS challenges and goes deeper than anything else I've seen. AoPS, however, takes a different kind of maturity than other math programs. For some kids, AoPS may be "extra work", but my kids don't find it to be more work. It tends to have fewer problems overall, but much more challenging problems. Some of the problems I think are more complicated than need be for pre-algebra, but only some of the extra challenging ones. My oldest started AoPS before the prealgebra book had come out, but I am now doing prealgebra with my second son. When he wants a "break" from the prealgebra book, he finds Forester's Algebra easier than AoPS prealgebra. Hahaa, he's probably not that far off in his assessment. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 You might want to try to ask 8FillTheHeart. She's used Horizons with her younger children & at least one has gone onto use AoPS very successfully. She'd have more details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 2) If AoPS is worth the extra work that seems to be involved, should I push him to rise to the challenge? I have no doubt he could handle the concepts academically. I just don't know if he would put forth the work required to do so. Is it worth forcing the issue? Is your student interested in competition math? If so, then AoPS will help a lot and is undoubtedly worth the extra work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielle1746 Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 Thank you for all the input. After reading your descriptions of the maturity level required (and the way your son initially reacted to not knowing the answers the first time, dereksurfs), I'm thinking we'd probably do best to stick with Horizons, at least for another year or two. After posting my question here, I found an old thread where 8FilltheHeart described her kids' personalities and experiences with AoPS, and it was very helpful as well. At this point, my son is not interested in competition math. I don't even know how homeschoolers would get involved in that. But thank you again for all the advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 FYI - While AoPS is great for competition math, you don't at all need to be interested in competing for AoPS to be a good fit. I think it is great prep for anyone going into a STEM field, as well as beneficial for many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 FYI - While AoPS is great for competition math, you don't at all need to be interested in competing for AoPS to be a good fit. I think it is great prep for anyone going into a STEM field, as well as beneficial for many others. Kids who enjoy competition math enjoy puzzling out tricky problems. AoPS books contain those kinds of problems. A student who really like logic puzzles (either paper and pencil or physical ones) or strategy games might be a good fit for AoPS :) Re competition math and homeschoolers------MathCounts is the competition least open to homeschoolers (they can participate as an individual but not as a team after changes made two? years ago). The MAA contests (AMC8/10/12, AIME) and Math Olympiad (team and individual) are very open to homeschoolers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Re competition math and homeschoolers------MathCounts is the competition least open to homeschoolers (they can participate as an individual but not as a team after changes made two? years ago). The MAA contests (AMC8/10/12, AIME) and Math Olympiad (team and individual) are very open to homeschoolers. Last year I coached a MathCounts team of homeschoolers, just 4 kids. They participated as both a team and as individuals. (Now if only I can recruit more kids to join our team!) I have found them to be reasonably accommodating of homeschoolers, though some of their rules are not well-defined. I would also add to this list of homeschooling-friendly math competitions, Math Kangaroo. I have found them to be very friendly to hs-ers. And I agree with above posters, you don't HAVE to be interested in competition math to enjoy AoPs. It's just that many of the homework problems are lifted directly from the above competitions, so it's nice if they at least enjoy solving those types of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 That's great to know about MathCounts! I wrote them off two years ago when they didn't want to allow homeschoolers and other non-building-school groups (like tutoring centers) to participate as teams! Off to read the national website...dd would be thrilled :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 That's great to know about MathCounts! I wrote them off two years ago when they didn't want to allow homeschoolers and other non-building-school groups (like tutoring centers) to participate as teams! Off to read the national website...dd would be thrilled :D Parents and students must sign a "Homeschool Participation Attestation" form. I faxed this in advance of submitting my registration form, and it was all good, except for some issues related to which chapter my students would be allowed to participate in. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Yes, mathcounts allows homeschoolers as a team or individual. Two years ago they didn't allow teams for that one year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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