11 year old debater

[Jean in Newcastle]

My ds11 is bright. He is an avid reader and learns facts in an instant. He makes friends easily with both children and adults. He has different styles of interacting with the children vs. the adults. With the children he just goes up and says hi and starts playing. He seems to be well accepted. Some of the things he says go over the other kid's heads but they just shrug and keep playing. No problem there.

 

With adults, he interacts as an "adult". He will enter a conversation on something factual or news based with his own opinions based on what he has read. He will often correct someone's facts but the same way you or I would - by saying something like, "Well actually, I read in Time magazine last week that the Kurds really. . .______." Much of the time he is accurate in his facts although his opinions are not always the well-rounded ones of an adult because he sees things in more black and white than an informed adult would. Dh and I interact with him as we would another adult. We will point out (politely) a factual error, or an error in judgment. And we'll tell him to back off if he is getting obnoxious in his arguments. Often his information is accurate but incomplete and we will tell him that he needs to do some more reading before entering into debate on a topic.

 

Here's the problem. 99% of the adults he is around are so taken by surprise that they immediately tell him (or my husband and I in my son's presence) that he is a genius. And then they sit and nod in agreement at everything he says whether it has merit or not. As he goes into the logic stage he is wanting to debate things more often. He is trying out his intellectual muscles on the adults around him. Some of his interactions are motivated by a desire to talk to people at a higher level than he can with his peers. Some of them are clearly arrogant- he is trying to prove himself smarter than the person he is debating. What do we do? It doesn't seem healthy to me the way these adults are responding to him. And yet I can't really give them a tutorial in how to interact with an 11 year old debater on the Middle East. Do we tell him not to enter these discussions? Do we give him alternate ways to debate? Do we tell him that children should be seen and not heard?:bigear: I really would like some perspective on how to think about his adult interactions, their reactions to him, how to properly direct him etc.

[clwcain]

I was the same way. I was just a PITA to the adults around me until I got to college. When I was in high school (not homeschooled) I was heavily involved in politics and a couple of debate societies. It helped, but it didn't sate my need for attention and discussion.

 

Too late for redirection, in my experience. The cat is out of the bag, so to speak, since he's had a taste of logomachy.

[Mx5]

My ds11 is bright. He is an avid reader and learns facts in an instant. He makes friends easily with both children and adults. He has different styles of interacting with the children vs. the adults. With the children he just goes up and says hi and starts playing. He seems to be well accepted. Some of the things he says go over the other kid's heads but they just shrug and keep playing. No problem there.

 

With adults, he interacts as an "adult". He will enter a conversation on something factual or news based with his own opinions based on what he has read. He will often correct someone's facts but the same way you or I would - by saying something like, "Well actually, I read in Time magazine last week that the Kurds really. . .______." Much of the time he is accurate in his facts although his opinions are not always the well-rounded ones of an adult because he sees things in more black and white than an informed adult would. Dh and I interact with him as we would another adult. We will point out (politely) a factual error, or an error in judgment. And we'll tell him to back off if he is getting obnoxious in his arguments. Often his information is accurate but incomplete and we will tell him that he needs to do some more reading before entering into debate on a topic.

 

Here's the problem. 99% of the adults he is around are so taken by surprise that they immediately tell him (or my husband and I in my son's presence) that he is a genius. And then they sit and nod in agreement at everything he says whether it has merit or not. As he goes into the logic stage he is wanting to debate things more often. He is trying out his intellectual muscles on the adults around him. Some of his interactions are motivated by a desire to talk to people at a higher level than he can with his peers. Some of them are clearly arrogant- he is trying to prove himself smarter than the person he is debating. What do we do? It doesn't seem healthy to me the way these adults are responding to him. And yet I can't really give them a tutorial in how to interact with an 11 year old debater on the Middle East. Do we tell him not to enter these discussions? Do we give him alternate ways to debate? Do we tell him that children should be seen and not heard?:bigear: I really would like some perspective on how to think about his adult interactions, their reactions to him, how to properly direct him etc.

 

I think it's important to teach your bright boy that just because he knows some things about some things, doesn't mean he needs to expound upon them in adult groups. Teach him that the humble person is viewed with more respect than the arrogant person, even if the arrogant person is right. This will be an ongoing teaching theme for you as he grows up.

 

Teach him certain group dynamic cues... how to know if or when he should jump in to a conversation, for how long, and with regard to which topics.

 

Teach him the bible verse that "even a fool is considered wise when he shuts up". If you're not into that sort of thing, then find some fables or other wise sayings which convey the same thing.

 

It's critical that he not equate knowledge with superiority. This is a difficult concept for many people, but we can all tell who didn't learn that lesson when children, can't we? :glare:

 

You could also have him look to you and / or your dh for a cue as to when or if to jump in to adult conversations.

[Tammyla]

Oh, I have one of those 11 year-old-boys;).

I'm working on this with him by explaining the value of a conversation and respecting vs. correcting the other speaker. Listening skills are important for us all and he often needs reminders that he is not giving a lecture.

 

Toast Masters or another debate forum might be right up your ds's alley.

 

I'm looking forward to more responses. I'm the oldest of three girls and have no boy raising experience.

[Alenee]

Oh, I have one of those 11 year-old-boys;).

I'm working on this with him by explaining the value of a conversation and respecting vs. correcting the other speaker. Listening skills are important for us all and he often needs reminders that he is not giving a lecture.

 

Toast Masters or another debate forum might be right up your ds's alley.

 

 

:iagree: Toast Masters could be a very good thing! I also agree with the previous poster. Generally speaking, most kids get the idea at this age that they *know* something, therefore they should share it! Some adults still think this way! ;) I wouldn't discourage him from having thoughtful conversations with adults, however if it were me, I might interject politely when he makes a mistake in fact relay. This might help the other adults he's speaking with to see that he is still a kid and needs to learn by example (w/o prepping the adults beforehand). I hope this makes sense!

[Spy Car]

Wow...sounds like me :D

 

Don't worry...it doesn't get better.

 

Get some good books on argumentation, a subscription to "The Economist" (essential), and start saving for law-school :tongue_smilie::001_smile:

 

Bill (who would be thrilled were he in your position)

[Cedarmom]

I would sign him up for actual debate, but he may have to wait until he's 12. He would love it. It would also help him with being able to see other's viewpoints. Of course he would be able to argue even better !:tongue_smilie:

[clwcain]

Wow...sounds like me :D

 

Don't worry...it doesn't get better.

 

Get some good books on argumentation, a subscription to "The Economist" (essential), and start saving for law-school :tongue_smilie::001_smile:

 

Bill (who would be thrilled were he in your position)

 

It was the Wall Street Journal, in my case. I didn't discover The Economist until years later. Not that I read either, any more. *shrug*

 

And law school was awful: no one wanted to discuss anything of importance. All the time was spent trying to secure "the advantage of the stronger" and calling it "justice".

[Spy Car]

And law school was awful: no one wanted to discuss anything of importance. All the time was spent trying to secure "the advantage of the stronger" and calling it "justice".

 

I rest my case, save for law-school :D

 

Bill