Juniper Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 We had our inspection today on the lake house and I am feeling very bluesy. The house itself is in great shape. The septic tanks and NEW drainage field are fine as well. The problem is that the inspector discovered that the septic tank is only 31ft from the well head (code is 50ft). The new drainage field is the appropriate 50ft from the well head. We are having the water tested and if bacteria is found, this is a none issue as the owners will have to replace the tank and get it up to code. I think the water will test fine. The well is deep and the inspector had no reason to believe the tanks were leaking. That said the house was built in 68' and we are thinking the code was different or non-existent then. Does anyone know if these things can be grandfathered in? There are wetlands very close to the house and I am not sure moving the tank...even 20ft....is going to be workable. The other factor is that we are only able to qualify for an FHA or Rural development loan. The Broker told us that a conventional loan wouldn't be an issue, but the regs for FHA and Rural Development might be (our realtor is looking into this on Mon). Even though a conventional loan wouldn't be an issue, I think I have an issue with buying a house that cannot be resold with ease. Any thoughts? I really love this house, but this is concerning. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Things like that are typically grandfathered if you're trying to do something with the land based on a municipal or county code, but federal regulations usually supersede local ordinances. Has the area been designated as a "critical management area" or something similar? Where I live, the aquifer our community depends on doesn't appear to recharge and so the state has put restrictions on water use. Well-head protection zones in the area are definitely enforced. However, in many cases it's possible to get a waiver based on a history of use if there's no contamination. One thing that might be required is an upgrade of the tank to newer standards or different type if it wasn't replaced when the new drain field was installed. I used to serve on a local zoning board where we have several options for onsite wastewater treatment located inside wellhead protection zones. Those are general policies, but the specifics vary from one jurisdiction to another. I hope that you find out it's not an issue. As far as future sales, you never know when something will change. We have done two different building projects in the last 10 years and there were major code changes between the first and second. Edited March 10, 2013 by Tullia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 If it is an actual issue for codes (or worse, the well), I'm thinking it would be simpler to drill a new well than dig up, unhook, move, re-bury and re-hook a septic. Unless you're in an area with unusually deep water or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 We bought our house with a septic system that wasn't up to code. We thought it wouldn't matter, but it absolutely does. Our septic system was put into place in the 1970s before the current code existed. Still doesn't matter. The septic inspector is required to report all his inspections up the channel. Well, the EPA isn't OK with septic systems that don't meet code. So the EPA is requiring us to replace the entire system. If we don't comply within a reasonable amount of time, they contact the county attorney and start issuing fines or something else equalling unappealing. We've drug this problem out for 4 years now, but I am positive we will have to replace it this spring/summer. The only reason we've been allowed to delay this long is b/c dh is one of the county attorneys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 We bought our house with a septic system that wasn't up to code. We thought it wouldn't matter, but it absolutely does. Our septic system was put into place in the 1970s before the current code existed. Still doesn't matter. The septic inspector is required to report all his inspections up the channel. Well, the EPA isn't OK with septic systems that don't meet code. So the EPA is requiring us to replace the entire system. If we don't comply within a reasonable amount of time, they contact the county attorney and start issuing fines or something else equalling unappealing. We've drug this problem out for 4 years now, but I am positive we will have to replace it this spring/summer. The only reason we've been allowed to delay this long is b/c dh is one of the county attorneys. I didn't want to like this, but I really appreciate your answer. I am trying to emotionally let go of the property. I am sure we will send it back to the owners asking them to get it up to code, but I do not have high hopes about their willingness. They are already having to take a credit line out on their new place to pay off this one as it looks like they were either upside down or had a second mortgage on the place. Thanks for being honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I didn't want to like this, but I really appreciate your answer. I am trying to emotionally let go of the property. I am sure we will send it back to the owners asking them to get it up to code, but I do not have high hopes about their willingness. They are already having to take a credit line out on their new place to pay off this one as it looks like they were either upside down or had a second mortgage on the place. Thanks for being honest. Here's the thing about the situation. The seller's issue isn't going to go away. A septic that isn't up to code is going to be a problem for every buyer who looks at the property. Most will walk just b/c they don't want to deal with the problem. Even if someone is willing to buy the property with a septic issue, they will require the seller to offer a septic allowance. The sellers may not be ready to face facts, but I'm guessing that if you give them time, you'll find that they eventually see the writing on the wall. The septic is a problem and it has to be solved in some way before they can sell the property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Here's the thing about the situation. The seller's issue isn't going to go away. A septic that isn't up to code is going to be a problem for every buyer who looks at the property. Most will walk just b/c they don't want to deal with the problem. Even if someone is willing to buy the property with a septic issue, they will require the seller to offer a septic allowance. The sellers may not be ready to face facts, but I'm guessing that if you give them time, you'll find that they eventually see the writing on the wall. The septic is a problem and it has to be solved in some way before they can sell the property. Things seem to be working a little differently up here. For some reason I do not think the inspector has to report it up the chain. The broker said if we were conventionally financing it wouldn't be an issue, but because we are looking at fha or rural development it doesn't meet their standards. What I don't get is that the code is the code...either way. Why would conventional be okay with it not being up to code? Ugh! So frustrating. Hopefully they do see the writing on the wall and are willing to get it fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Things seem to be working a little differently up here. For some reason I do not think the inspector has to report it up the chain. The broker said if we were conventionally financing it wouldn't be an issue, but because we are looking at fha or rural development it doesn't meet their standards. What I don't get is that the code is the code...either way. Why would conventional be okay with it not being up to code? Ugh! So frustrating. Hopefully they do see the writing on the wall and are willing to get it fixed. The code may not mandate that a properly functioning system be upgraded when the property changes hands. However, the lenders can still say that they won't lend unless the system is upgraded. If moving the underground tank or the well isn't possible some jurisdictions allow above ground tanks in wellhead protection zones. But, that might not be aesthetically pleasing depending on where it would be located. In my county, as long as the system capacity meets standards, the tank is intact, and the drain field is working properly, the inspector doesn't have to report up the chain and state's environmental division doesn't step in. However,several years ago, a neighboring county passed an ordinance mandating that septic systems be brought up to a new, very stringent code within a certain amount of time or when the property sold. It killed home sales and encouraged the abandonment of properties. The ordinance had to be modified because it was unworkable. 2Squared has a good point; questions like these are deal-killers and I'm not sure I'd take an allowance if the seller offered because you might not be able to find a workable solution for relocating all or part of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 In my county, as long as the system capacity meets standards, the tank is intact, and the drain field is working properly, the inspector doesn't have to report up the chain and state's environmental division doesn't step in. Maybe this is a question to ask your realtor. The *only* problem with our septic is that the tank isn't deep enough. It works perfectly, and yet b/c it's not deep enough, we are on the EPA's list. Once the inspector discovered the problem he was required to report it up the chain AND it became a required disclosure for the sellers. They couldn't pretend they didn't know about the issue. I would ask your realtor what the repercussions are for the sellers so you understand their bargaining position. We can sell our property with this septic issue, but our buyer would inherit the problem. I wouldn't want to be on the hook for replacing a septic system unless I loved the property and received a large allowance - an allowance more than the highest cost estimate. We would have walked away from this property had we understood the ramifications of failing the septic inspection. We didn't find out until 9 months after the inspection. We knew it had failed due to depth, but we didn't understand that we would be required to completely replace a perfectly functioning system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2squared Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Things seem to be working a little differently up here. For some reason I do not think the inspector has to report it up the chain. The broker said if we were conventionally financing it wouldn't be an issue, but because we are looking at fha or rural development it doesn't meet their standards. What I don't get is that the code is the code...either way. Why would conventional be okay with it not being up to code? Ugh! So frustrating. Hopefully they do see the writing on the wall and are willing to get it fixed. FWIW, the requirements of the lenders are not the same requirements of the EPA. We didn't have a problem getting a loan with the septic problem, and yet we do have a problem with the EPA. We looked at another house which didn't have heat in the upstairs (how is that possible in MN?), and our realtor told us some types of lenders would reject the loan based on not having heat in the entire house. So, anyway, that's why we thought we were good to go despite the septic issue. No one (realtors, banks, or inspector) mentioned the EPA problems. Obviously we didn't ask the right questions or something. We were completely blindsided about having to replace the system. When I talked to the inspector after the fact, he was surprised that we didn't know about the replacement issue. Maybe that's general knowledge for others, but we had no clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I didn't want to like this, but I really appreciate your answer. I am trying to emotionally let go of the property. I am sure we will send it back to the owners asking them to get it up to code, but I do not have high hopes about their willingness. They are already having to take a credit line out on their new place to pay off this one as it looks like they were either upside down or had a second mortgage on the place. Thanks for being honest. Septic tank here. If you have any options in your area at all, get city sewer. You just don't want a septic if you don't have to have one. Being too close to a well, on top of that, just isn't a situation to enter voluntarily. It might be fine, but it might not, and it's not worth the risk when you have a family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 The owners have agreed to relocate either the septic or well to get the house up to code!!!!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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