I think I need help.

[~Amanda~]

I'm struggling with my DS 11yo. I feel like maybe what I have him doing now is beyond his level maybe? I am trying to make things not so much of a struggle. I got a different writing program and grammar, I'm looking into getting a new math... Now I'm thinking history needs to be changed. We are currently doing history odyssey 2 middle ages... I don't even know how to explain what the problem is. He isn't intuitive? maybe? I don't know. It just seems like its all above his head. I feel like I need to bring him down a few levels, lower my expectations, lower the pressure, let him find a groove maybe? His writing is bad. its really atrocious. his handwriting is worse. I recently purchased EIW for 5th grade, hoping that will bring it back to his level and help bring him back up. I purchased the NAC cursive software to help with his handwriting. I'm looking into getting Teaching Textbooks for math instead of math mammoth so he has a little bit better instruction and help when he is struggling.

 

I feel like I'm rambling, I'm sorry I keep getting distracted. I feel like the reading assignments may be above his head. I know the writing expectation is too much for him. but what can I do for history, to keep him in the middle ages, to be more on his level, if level 2 history odyssey is too much? I think level 1 middle ages is geared for 2nd grade, so that seems like its too low, but would it be easier to use that and beef it up than to try to simplify what I've got?

[5LittleMonkeys]

If he is struggling with core subjects I would most definitely back off on the difficulty in this content subject. He needs to be focusing on building basic skills...not history facts right now. HO level 1 is labeled as up to 4 th grade level so I don't see it being a stretch for a 5 th grader to use it. It also uses SOTW, which is far more readable than VanLoon ( which I strongly disliked). The other resources might seem a little below his level, but it may be a welcome relief while working hard on those core subjects. If you could manage it I might even keep the literature selections from the level 2 and use them as read alouds. He would benefit from hearing the more advanced content even if he might have trouble with comprehending all of it...you would be in a position to discuss the content with him.

 

Another option would be to simply let him read through the SOTW2 book and add some interesting, accessible library books, and watch documentaries that match up for the remainder of the year. It's awfully close to the end of the year to purchase a whole new program, not to mention there doesn't need to be copious amounts of output in order to learn. I've found with my own dc that they are more apt to become interested in and make a bigger effort to understand history when I don't require a lot of written work from it.

 

One more thing...11 is a hard age. Work on getting those basic skills solid and allow the content subjects to be gravy right now. It will get better.

[~Amanda~]

thank you for your response. I'm still mulling it over, I just wish I could be TOLD what best to do. He was PS for 3 years, the HS for a year, then back to PS for half a year and back in HS, I feel like certain things fell through the cracks, and its taken me a year to realize that we can't move forward without moving back.

 

I know it seems like its close to the end of the year, but quite honestly we are so far behind I'm *this close* to changing to a Jan-Dec format, because at this rate we wont finish this year until after summer anyway, and at this point I am not opposed to starting over with something new as long as it WORKS because what I am doing is not working. Not with this child.

[Murrayshire]

I'm struggling with my DS 11yo. I feel like maybe what I have him doing now is beyond his level maybe? I am trying to make things not so much of a struggle. I got a different writing program and grammar, I'm looking into getting a new math... Now I'm thinking history needs to be changed. We are currently doing history odyssey 2 middle ages... I don't even know how to explain what the problem is. He isn't intuitive? maybe? I don't know. It just seems like its all above his head. I feel like I need to bring him down a few levels, lower my expectations, lower the pressure, let him find a groove maybe? His writing is bad. its really atrocious. his handwriting is worse. I recently purchased EIW for 5th grade, hoping that will bring it back to his level and help bring him back up. I purchased the NAC cursive software to help with his handwriting. I'm looking into getting Teaching Textbooks for math instead of math mammoth so he has a little bit better instruction and help when he is struggling.

 

I feel like I'm rambling, I'm sorry I keep getting distracted. I feel like the reading assignments may be above his head. I know the writing expectation is too much for him. but what can I do for history, to keep him in the middle ages, to be more on his level, if level 2 history odyssey is too much? I think level 1 middle ages is geared for 2nd grade, so that seems like its too low, but would it be easier to use that and beef it up than to try to simplify what I've got?

 

 

For History my dd12 is using SOTW 1 & 2 with SL...She is using the audio cd's and reading along with the book. She can read just about anything so I'm not worried that the level of reading is low in SOTW. She was in PS from grade K-5 and started homeschooling for middle so she is really getting history she has never been introduced to. I'd say as long as you pair SOTW up with readers and other resources your dc would be fine. My dd likes to mix it up and add crafts, cooking, and documentaries/movies to her studies. She loves the Foster books, too! In my opinion, I'd say save the more challenging skills for core and let history be fun and engaging for now. Hope this helps!

[elizabeth rose]

Just wanted to say, that I think HO is very difficult. It is a lot of work. I think a spine like K12's Human Oddyssey followed by supplemental reading may be a good idea. TT for math sounds like a good idea too. I wouldn't worry too much about his handwriting. :Lots of people have not so neat handwriting. You have so much on your mind now, I would just let that slide a bit and focus on his keyboarding skills, that's what we all use anyway.

[speedmom4]

I think you're right. It sounds to me like he needs other material. I have no experience with HO but I do with TT. I did like TT for a while. It is great having immediate feedback but sometimes I felt the instruction was lacking. Have you looked at CLE for math? It is very thorough and takes it slow. I feel like my boys really understand math. They actually enjoy what they are doing and they don't find it frustrating at all. Most of my kids needed a spiral approach to math rather than a mastery approach.

 

Good luck!!

 

Elise in NC

[Hunter]

:grouphug: I will post later.

[~Amanda~]

math is not necessarily something he's struggling in, I just feel like the way he takes instruction he would do better with the videos. He's actually on level with math, he's not quite ready for pre-algebra, so right at the fractions decimals and percents stage. We are using K12 Human Odyssey with History odyssey as the spine instead of story of mankind, but I will get SOTW 2 and allow him to read those stories and maybe find a way to use SWB writing method with that .... thank you for all your responses

[5LittleMonkeys]

Amanda,

 

I know how frustrating this is...as I'm sure many, many others here do as well. When I pulled dd13 out of ps halfway through 4th I struggled for over a year switching from program to program, method to method, trying desperately to figure out why on earth this child couldn't learn. It took backing WAY up (two grade levels) and focusing on only core subjects to get us back on track. We also repeated 7th grade, which was the absolutely best thing I could have ever done for her. She's now finishing up her second run through 7th grade and is so much more confident and able to do 8th grade work - actually surpassing my expectations in several areas. I'm not suggesting you repeat a grade level but I think restructuring his year to give him extra time would be such a wonderful idea.

 

I think focusing on Math and Language Arts and putting History and Science in the "light" category for awhile is the best way to proceed right now. There are many, many homeschoolers who don't even do formal science or history until highschool, focusing instead on rigorous core subjects, and their students do absolutely fine because the basic skills are strong and solid. They can read anything, write about anything, compute anything, discuss anything...

 

Throw grade level ideas out the window and teach to his ability and within a short period of time you will see a different student. (This of coarse is assuming there are not LDs or other issues in play.)

 

:grouphug:

[~Amanda~]

Thank you. I think you are right. he is "young" his birthday is sept 2, so technically he could be in a lower grade level. I've tossed around the idea repeatedly about repeating the 6th, and right now, I know I need to focus on the writing, and reading, and comprehension and that means going back to the beginning and moving forward at his pace. I'll be spending the weekend brushing up on techniques and the plan, and start this next monday, with reading SOTW 2 for history, and focusing on writing and grammar and math.

[Hunter]

It just seems like its all above his head. I feel like I need to bring him down a few levels, lower my expectations, lower the pressure, let him find a groove maybe? His writing is bad. its really atrocious. his handwriting is worse.

 

 

First off :grouphug:. I'm merely tutoring and no longer homeschooling and sometimes I still get scared. I look at where the student IS and where I think they NEED to BE and freak over the distance between the two.

 

Back maybe a couple months ago, I got scared over content, for the first time in over a decade. I'd happily grounded myself in teaching skills before content, until a couple low functioning students/neighbors shocked the Hades out of me with the basic things they did not know, and a couple actually did dangerous things because they didn't know the most basic of science facts. I started focusing more on systematic instruction of content, for awhile, till I came to my senses.

 

Whether I am a parent or a tutor or any kind of teacher, I am still just one person in a child's/student's life and there is a limit to what I can do to change the WORLD they live in. I must face reality and triage. Triage is nasty business. In real life medical triage, people die. At least with schooling, the student is very likely to survive, no matter what we do. When we triage bad things DO happen. But the worst bad things don't happen, and that is the point. By pulling back on content, I run the risk of a student actually electrocuting themselves or dying in some other preventable accident, but the threat is unlikely. I WILL hurt them for definite if I'm not brave enough to triage properly.

 

My time with these people is very limited. I need to zone right in on the skills that will teach them to teach themselves and I need to put blinders on to what else is going on, and just hope for the best. As I said, I'm just one person in their lives, and EVERYTHING is not on me. Yes, more is on a mom, but not EVERYTHING. We need to seek excellence in our performance but not inhuman perfection and not the ability to predict the future. And we cannot always erase the effects of a learning disability, or previous PS neglect, or environmental influences outside of our control.

 

There is a retired professor that tutors the same student population that I do. We have very different teaching styles. She teaches from the top down and I teach from the bottom up. I respect her way and send students to her when I think they need that. She on the other hand just thinks I'm wrong, which is too bad, because some students really need to start back at ground zero for all sorts of reasons. With top down teaching, we have both learned, a student can know what Pangea was, but she might think that Pangea was flat, and that the world didn't become round until the continents broke apart. :svengo: This student also thought stars were pointy. :scared: After the professor was done with her top down lesson, I took the student back to an elementary bottom up lesson focusing on the idea that things in outer space are usually round.

 

My recommendation is to start all the way back with a review of phonics while starting an intensive and explicit handwriting instruction. My default suggestion for remedial phonics/handwriting is the letter formation scripts of Spalding cursive lowercase font in WRTR 6th edition, and the Simply Charlotte Mason ZB uppercase Manuscript, and the order of instruction in How to Tutor/ Alpha Phonics. I don't know enough about the materials you have chosen to know if they are as explicit.

 

While teaching a new handwriting hand, I don't require a student to write ANYTHING in their old hand. Everything is oral or picture drawing, or coloring. Once the uppercase letters are introduced, the student can label maps, illustrations and address envelopes, but that's about it until they can at least copy in cursive.

 

Once the student can copy in lowercase cursive and uppercase ZB manuscript, I start preparing outlines and paragraphs for them to copy. I present the copy work as an introduction, read from a source with short simple sentences and explicitly taught vocabulary. Then we use the copywork as a review and output. I expect almost perfect handwriting, but only expect something easy and short enough that there is no struggle.

 

It doesn't sound like you need math help, but for lurkers that are reading this thread, I start all math students with number recognition exercises and memorization of basic math facts.

 

I move as quickly as possible through 1st grade materials, but I start everyone with at least something from 1st grade. I homeschooled one of my boys through the beginning if a calculus book and over half way through several rigorous Ancient Greek Grammar texts, but I PERSONALLY have learned things from the 1st grade materials I have been using.

[TheAutumnOak]

Thank you. I think you are right. he is "young" his birthday is sept 2, so technically he could be in a lower grade level. I've tossed around the idea repeatedly about repeating the 6th, and right now, I know I need to focus on the writing, and reading, and comprehension and that means going back to the beginning and moving forward at his pace. I'll be spending the weekend brushing up on techniques and the plan, and start this next monday, with reading SOTW 2 for history, and focusing on writing and grammar and math.

 

My son is also young (his birthday is Sep. 4th) and he is in the 6th grade this year...He is 12 years old...Last year was difficult for us, and it is getting better this year...I would really think about letting him do 6th grade work next year...I am happy that my two September birthday boys are in the lower grade level (My 2nd grader turned 8 on Sep. 9th)...That extra year of maturity helps a lot...It will also take some of the pressure of both of you to be at 7th grade level next year...

[Alessandra]

You've got good advice. I especially liked what 5littlemonkeys said about focussing on core subjects and what Hunter said about building a strong foundation by going over earlier material.

 

You said it seems 'like it's all above his head.' If I could make one more suggestion -- test for reading comprehension. It's so easy for parents to think that their dc are understanding, when in fact they are not. People on this board probably have recommendations for testing. One way is the inexpensive McCall-Crabbs books; I believe that they are recommended in the Spalding that Hunter suggested.

[~Amanda~]

Ok, I'm struggling with where to start, exactly. I got SOTW 2 in, so he's still doing the same time period in history, but what do we do? Read a chapter together and then... have him outline it? have him narrate a summary to me and then write it down? I'm not sure how to implement this, or what my goal is. I'm feeling very frazzled today, I'm afraid I've already failed.