9th grader - help with English plan for a slow worker but excellent student

[Heather in OK]

I need help and reassurance.

 

My oldest is a very good student. Very thorough. Very much a perfectionist (I have NO idea where she gets that... ;) ). Which means she tends to work slow because she is being thoughtful and trying to do her best work. The biggest challenge with this is with her English assignments.

 

For example, I assigned The Hobbit for her literature reading this past semester. It took her the entire semester to read it. I found some comprehension worksheets and quizzes online to go along with her reading. She did an excellent job on those!

 

Last year we used Excellence in Literature English I and she only got the short stories and two books read the entire year.

 

I need to assign things for the rest of the year (and probably into the summer..?) so I've been looking at EiL English II: Literature and Composition. I'm having a hard time finding good samples online of what the assignments are (Rainbow Resource has a good description) so I'm wondering if it would be worth buying, even if we don't get through the whole book.

 

She does need more work with the composition portion of Language Arts. We've lightly worked through MCT Advanced Academic Writing I. She's done well but needs to improve a bit. Would the EiL English II help with that?

 

I worry that if she chooses to go to college, she won't be able to keep up with assignments. :bored: I know she's just starting high school and has a bit of maturing and growing to do. But still....I worry. I'm trying to balance going at her pace but also setting deadlines so she gets used to things being due.

[Melissa B]

English II is very similar to English I. Why not continue with English I if you only did the first three units last year? Or, if you want more composition instruction, EIL is probably not the program you are looking for.

 

I have a dd that has always been a very slow worker and perfectionist. I'm not sure she has ever finished a single program I've assigned her. She also only finished three units of EIL English I the year I assigned it. She took a DE Comp I class this past fall and did fine. When a bit more speed truly mattered she showed that she was able to bend a bit and give up some of her perfectionist tendencies in order to get assignments in on time.

[regentrude]

For a student who is slow and meticulous, I would make every assignment count: no busy work, no comprehension worksheets, no online quizzes. I would give few writing assignments I have thoughtfully chosen to fulfill a certain goal and cut out anything superficial.

 

In addition, I would work on her reading speed; that, to me, seems the biggest obstacle to successful high school and college studies because it carries over into all subjects. Can you pinpoint why it took her a whole semester to read the Hobbit? Is the problem with her actual reading speed, or does she get distracted, or can she only manage small portions in one sitting? Has it always been like this? This would be the thing I would try to find out. My DD is an extreme perfectionist, so I get that perfectionists do their work slowly and meticulously, but I do not quite see why a perfectionist would need to read excruciatingly slowly if it is a simple fiction book and not a fact-dense non-fiction text where information has to be retained.

[Heather in OK]

English II is very similar to English I. Why not continue with English I if you only did the first three units last year? Or, if you want more composition instruction, EIL is probably not the program you are looking for.

The EiL II is titled Literature and Composition. So my question is, how are they teaching comp? I can't find any sample assignments online other than the written description on Rainbow Resource: "During the completion of each four-week unit, students will complete a number of written assignments including author profiles, approach papers, historical papers, and 750 –word essays usually from a choice of topics."

 

That sounds to me like it is not quite so complex as the essay assignments in their English I. *shrug* If it's going to have some good assignments in it to teach comp, that's why I am considering it.

 

So what would you recommend for comp instruction if EiL isn't what I'm looking for??

 

Can you pinpoint why it took her a whole semester to read the Hobbit?

- She reads slowly and well.

- She looks up (with the dictionary on her iPod) the words she does not know.

 

Those are the only two possible explanations that I can think of.

 

She does not get distracted at all. She's very good about going into her room, shutting the door, and focusing on the reading.

 

Yes, she is like this across the board. Even with knitting. ;) She works slowly but very well.

 

 

She's the oldest. I'm so worried that I'm not doing this right and that I'm screwing her up or setting her up for failure later.

[Cosmos]

- She reads slowly and well.

- She looks up (with the dictionary on her iPod) the words she does not know.

 

Those are the only two possible explanations that I can think of.

 

 

I would probe the reading issue further. How much time is she spending on reading? How many pages does she read in that time? (I mean probe these questions with her, not that you need to share that information here.)

 

The Hobbit is about 300 pages, and a semester is 90 days (?). That's an average of 3 pages a day. Even for a slow reader, something seems off.

 

I agree with regentrude that the reading speed is likely to be a big obstacle in future studies.

[Heather in OK]

I fully understand that the reading speed needs to be worked on. That's not the question here. My question is how to proceed with English this semester.

 

Pull more from EiL English I? Try EiL English II? Something else?

[Cosmos]

Oh, sorry. I thought you were asking for more general advice. I have a slow worker too, so your thread caught my eye.

 

I don't know anything about those programs. Good luck, though!

[swimmermom3]

For a student who is slow and meticulous, I would make every assignment count: no busy work, no comprehension worksheets, no online quizzes. I would give few writing assignments I have thoughtfully chosen to fulfill a certain goal and cut out anything superficial.

 

In addition, I would work on her reading speed; that, to me, seems the biggest obstacle to successful high school and college studies because it carries over into all subjects. Can you pinpoint why it took her a whole semester to read the Hobbit? Is the problem with her actual reading speed, or does she get distracted, or can she only manage small portions in one sitting? Has it always been like this? This would be the thing I would try to find out. My DD is an extreme perfectionist, so I get that perfectionists do their work slowly and meticulously, but I do not quite see why a perfectionist would need to read excruciatingly slowly if it is a simple fiction book and not a fact-dense non-fiction text where information has to be retained.

 

 

I would give a huge "Yes!" to the part in regentrude's quote above, but then I would tend to apply this advice to all students.

 

However, the number of writing assignments varies with the student's abilities and outlook. Some students physically cannot tackle that many assignments in a semester, but far more "freeze" from a lack of practice. I am a firm believer at this age in the "cr@ppy" first draft. Perfectionists in particular want every sentence in an essay to be perfect from the very start. Eliminate that tendency as soon as you can. A few years ago I would have told you that I needed to have all of the elements in the student's essay be "just right." Not anymore. I care much more about the thinking that is demonstrated in the writing than the format and I would agree with MelissaB that EiL is not going to get you to college-level writing skills.

 

Does your daughter choose to read on her own and if so, what does she like to read? How does she feel about writing? How are her spelling and grammar? Do deficiencies there slow down her reading and comprehension? What are your daughter's academic goals? The fast readers in our house don't read every word. The "slow" readers here read every. single. word. Those two do very well on comprehension tests and one of them graduated from college with honors.You will probably need to figure out where on that scale your daughter falls before you will know how to improve her reading speed.

 

And you, Mom, do you need a concrete teaching plan or are you willing and able to do some adaptation?

 

ETA: There is something very wrong with using poor grammar to make a statement about grammar. Ugh.

[Heather in OK]

I can do some adaptation. We adapted the essay assignment for Jane Eyre.

[Lori D.]

re: the writing process

Totally agree with Regentrude and SwimmerMom's suggestions for paring the writing down to just the essentials for a perfectionist. I would just add: at that age, students still REALLY need hand-holding and oversight. Esp. for a perfectionist, to help model what is *appropriate* time to spend, to break it into smaller, more manageable "bites", to help talk the student through the thinking process of writing.

 

For a 1-3 paragraph essay, you're right there for all of Day 1, 2, and 4 AT LEAST:

 

Day 1 = go over the assingment together; brainstorm DD's approach and jot down any specific details/examples

Day 2 = make a keyword outline

Day 3 = turn each line of the outline into a complete sentence (SwimmerMom's "sloppy copy")

Day 4 = revise (add, subtract, change)

Day 5 = proofread/edit; final copy

 

For a longer writing assignment, take 2-3 weeks, stretching out each "day" to several days or a full week, as appropriate. As your student does more assignments and grows more confident (say, grades 11 and 12), you can back down the time have to spend with them. However, that has just been my experience with 2 DSs -- a reluctant writer, and a struggling writer with mild LDs. So, take those thoughts FWIW. :)

 

 

 

Last year we used Excellence in Literature English I and she only got the short stories and two books read the entire year... so I've been looking at EiL English II: Literature and Composition. I'm having a hard time finding good samples online

 

 

I cannot find much in the way of samples of EIL 2 either, but it does not appear to be much different than the other programs, just a different book list. However, I agree with the previous poster who suggested that since you already have EIL 1 and did not complete it, could you just go with that for the rest of the year?

 

Not personally familiar with EIL, but from the reviews here I have read from others, it doesn't sound like it has composition instruction you are looking for, but rather is about reading linked articles about the work, a general schedule, some guided thinking questions about the work, writing assignments, and an evaluation rubric. Just a thought, but that sounds like it might not be the best program for a perfectionist, who could get lost in following all of those links and going way in-depth on the "bunny trail" details.

 

 

 

She does need more work with the composition portion of Language Arts. We've lightly worked through MCT Advanced Academic Writing I. She's done well but needs to improve a bit. Would the EiL English II help with that?

 

What specifically does she need work on, if she has done well with what you've used so far? Is it the writing about Literature? Or...?

 

For clear, concise, specific instruction on how to write a literary analysis essay, the best thing I've seen so far is the chapter in IEW's Windows to the World. The program also teaches annotation and a number of literary elements by focusing on 6 short stories; it also has specific exercises and writing assignments. Perhaps the short story aspect may be of help at this time???

 

Other ideas for more instruction on essay writing: many people have found The Elegant Essay (the WttW author), or The Lively Art of Writing, to be a good fit.

 

 

 

I worry that if she chooses to go to college, she won't be able to keep up... I know she's just starting high school and has a bit of maturing and growing to do. But still... I'm trying to balance going at her pace but also setting deadlines so she gets used to things being due.

 

 

True, she will mature a lot in the next years. And yes, that's a great idea of implementing deadlines. However, it sounds like there is the possibility of something more going on here.

 

For right now, whatever Literature program you go with, even though this would require rearranging your schooling schedule, I strongly suggest NOT having DD reading/working alone in her room. Instead, do the reading aloud together each day. Do it "popcorn style" ("you read a page, I read a page"). Discuss questions orally. Teach vocab. in the context with a sentence of definition and move on. In this way, you can model to DD how much time needs to be spent and what is important and what is less important. It will might allow you to see if DD has specific reading issues, and if so, what they are.

 

I would also suggest that any solo reading and the writing be done under your eye, so you can see if DD is getting distracted or is hyper-focusing. That way you can re-direct her, or show her how to break the assignment into small "bites", or help her get back on track. Either way, you can model and teach what DD is missing right now, or, you are right there to catch what is a possible problem or dysfunction.

 

I also strongly suggest some testing to help you rule out any dysfunction at this point -- vision problem, or a problem with vision tracking, dyslexia, or stealth dyslexia. Those issues can have very subtle symptoms, but when properly treated, can help a student tremendously. Is your DD highly visual? Even a simple colored filter overlay on the page can have tremendous benefits by reducing glare and stress from reading something that is just too bright for her. (MANY people are helped by these filters.)

 

Side note: I have read that ADD manifests differently in girls, and can be very subtle, even showing up as a hyper-focus on peripheral details (which can look a lot like perfectionism), because the student is overwhelmed by the "largeness" of assignment and can't see how to break it into parts, or is distractible. It is a coping mechanism.

 

 

I know you are asking specifically about curriculum, but your post has some pretty big red flags in it that, if nothing else, you want to be able to know for sure are NOT problems that need to addressed. Meaning this with all BEST wishes, and hoping you quickly find the good and best solution! Warmest regards Lori D.

[Candid]

Can I ask for some follow up questions? What are your expectations for your dd after she graduates high school? And it would help me to see some of the online worksheets she did on The Hobbit. I'd really like to see one she did well on and maybe the hardest one she did and have you tell us how she did on it (generally, not specifics).

 

I'd also like to detail out what I think others have meant about choosing what she reads carefully. Presuming that she will continue to read at this rate through out high school means that you'll be limited to about 600 pages of literature a year. I would want those works to be those that she must read. So I'd think about this and figure out what she absolutely must read in high school. For instance: Shakespeare? If yes, good news a play is around 125 or so pages in a paperback. However, since your list will have a lot on it, I'd suggest one play and reading some synopsis of some of his other plays, plus some sonnets. Some novels will be too long to tackle so you can eliminate them. For some authors, you'll want to chose shorter works novellas and short stories over full fledged novels.

[Melissa B]

The EiL II is titled Literature and Composition. So my question is, how are they teaching comp? I can't find any sample assignments online other than the written description on Rainbow Resource: "During the completion of each four-week unit, students will complete a number of written assignments including author profiles, approach papers, historical papers, and 750 –word essays usually from a choice of topics."

 

That sounds to me like it is not quite so complex as the essay assignments in their English I. *shrug* If it's going to have some good assignments in it to teach comp, that's why I am considering it.

 

So what would you recommend for comp instruction if EiL isn't what I'm looking for?

 

 

Sorry if this double posts, I don't know what happened to my last reply.

 

I would not read anything into the change in title from EIL 1 to EIL 2. The format is the exact same, as it is for the other three levels. There are no composition lessons. There are reading assignments, research assignments and then writing assignments/prompts - just the same as English I.

 

Sorry, I don't have any composition recommendations. I've taught comp through history the last couple of years. And then I outsource (through DE) Comp I and up.

[Heather in OK]

Problem is solved. :) But so I don't abandon this thread I'll address some things.

 

 

at that age, students still REALLY need hand-holding and oversight.....to help model what is *appropriate* time to spend, to break it into smaller, more manageable "bites", to help talk the student through the thinking process of writing.

I like to think I have a good balance of me giving her some responsibility in time management and then me staying on her/working with her. But it's something I'm always keeping in check as far as maintaining that balance.

 

it doesn't sound like it has composition instruction you are looking for, but rather is about reading linked articles about the work, a general schedule, some guided thinking questions about the work, writing assignments, and an evaluation rubric. Just a thought, but that sounds like it might not be the best program for a perfectionist, who could get lost in following all of those links and going way in-depth on the "bunny trail" details.

Perhaps that is what I'm looking for. However, as a perfectionist myself, those things are useful in keeping a perfectionist on-track. The whole "do this, now think about this, consider writing about this or this, you'll be evaluated on this, this and this." lays it all out and I know exactly what is to be done and what it will be graded on. My dd does well with things like that too.

 

What specifically does she need work on, if she has done well with what you've used so far? Is it the writing about Literature? Or...?

Writing about literature. Getting her brain to think deeper about the work and assignment.

 

We've used Windows to the World already. I did think about going back and doing some short stories with her again. I could go through Windows with her again (my second dd is going to do it this semester) however, she really hated the reading selections.

 

your post has some pretty big red flags in it that

I respectfully disagree.

 

What are your expectations for your dd after she graduates high school?

My expectations are that she chooses the path that is right for her. I've been bringing up the dialogue with her regarding what she thinks she might want to do, she doesn't know yet. If it's a 4-year college with a degree, great. If it's some community college and pursuing a career that doesn't require a degree, great. If it's an apprenticeship that leads to a career, great. College is not a requirement of our children.

 

The comprehension questions and quizzes she worked on for The Hobbit, 90-100% across the board. Comprehension is not an issue here.

 

I would want those works to be those that she must read. So I'd think about this and figure out what she absolutely must read in high school.

This is what I've been trying to do.

 

Thanks for all your input.

[Miss Marple]

Problem is solved. :) But so I don't abandon this thread I'll address some things.

 

I see that you have a plan, but thought I might add a comment or two. I, too, have a son who is a slow, but excellent worker. He is in college now and doing very well, but still a slow worker. When we were working through literature study, he was a slow reader. One of the things I did to help him get through a work was to assign a certain number of pages to be read either per day or per week. I found that he often put off the reading in order to work on other assignments that he felt he was better at or that he felt were more pressing (usually math or his dual enrolled courses). When I assigned the pages he was able to keep up and do much more than he thought he could do. I don't know if he finds reading difficult...he scored a 34 on the ACT reading section so I know he is good at it :) I think he is just very thorough.

 

I think, too, that many of the programs we use in homeschool are a little overkill in the number of works required. I base this on the experience we have had in our dual enrolled English courses. For a semester, my sons read a series of short works (short stories, poetry, plays) and ONE short book (usually Fahrenheit 451). Seeing what is required in the university setting has helped me be a little more reasonable in my expectations. I'm sure there are many out there who will say that our university is not rigorous (I'd probably agree) and that the students should have a lot more than what has been required (I'd probably disagree). Since your daughter is only in 9th grade, dual enrollment at a university in OK is probably not an option. However, if you are close to a TCC campus or are interested in an online course, you might check out a community college online English course for your daughter. The advantage of that would be that your daughter would probably make that course a priority and put in a greater effort and she will be being prepared for the university experience she might apply to later.

 

I've learned that my son cannot be rushed. He is just slow in everything he does :) But that's OK because he has made it work for him and has been very successful. He can do what needs to be done...usually just a little differently than I would do it. Best wishes as you work through the high school years :)

[unsinkable]

...nm

[txhomemom]

I would consider giving daily assignments. I know that for my dd, with a weekly assignment or just the general idea to read certain books each semester it never works. She basically waits until the last possible minute to do all of her work. Starting in January I am changing things up, I am going to make up assignment sheets for each week and even broken down to the day on which chapters to read, etc. I like the idea of EIL, but it seems like it could be hard for some students to keep with the schedule in the guide that is not very concrete. Also, if you break down the chapters to one or two per day, then maybe even if she is more of a slower reader it will seem more doable. Also, maybe cut back on some of the assignments if necessary or choose one day a week to do the majority of the writing so that does not interfere with the reading process.

[Mom22ns]

I break down the expectations for EIL to a daily level. I agree that could help your dd. My ds is also VERY slow and meticulous, but he just finished the first level of EIL right on time. The key was knowing exactly what needed to be done when.