Reviews for FastForword?

[CyndiLJ]

We are considering it for our almost 14 year old son, who is reading at a 5th grade level. He has auditory processing disorder, speech issues due to cleft lip and palate, processing speed issues, and memory deficits. Has anyone used this program? It is SO expensive, but the school speech therapist recommends we take a look at it. I'd appreciate any comments.

 

Cindy

[amo_mea_filiis.]

My kids used a cyber last year (ds only did for 2 months) and they had to use ff as part of the curriculum. They both hated it. I dont know if the program is different when used by a school vs private/home.

 

Itcould be a good program, but for mine it was pointless. Ds had a hard time understanding some of the things said. It also seemed like too much for him (too busy). Dd got through it, but i cant say it did anything for her.

 

Hopefully someone else will have a better review for you.

[Mukmuk]

My son has CAPD and significant sound discrimination issues. He did the first 3 levels of Fast Forword earlier this year. It was of tremendous help to him!

 

Although he was tested at the audiologist, I hadn't realize how bad it was till he started FFW - he couldn't differentiate a host of basic sound pairs, like "b" and "d", and "g" and "k", among others. It was a grueling 9 weeks for him, but it was worth it. I didn't see any difference at first, but shortly after completing the program, DS went for his annual debate camp. The previous year, he'd raise his hand and answer the *previous* question. This year, though, there was no processing lag. He could answer the current topic raised. He said the difference was, he didn't have to hold the sounds in his head and guess at what people were saying. He understood most of what was said on the spot.

 

What helped was also that he did a working memory program, Cogmed, prior to FFW. I think it boosted his ability to remember sounds beter. I've read on various forums that not everyone has been helped by these programs. But here's an NIH article on FFW, other computer assisted programs, one-on-one intervention, and even non-language intervention. The researched outcomes for intensive intervention does appear to be very positive.

 

DS's auditory processing still isn't perfect but it's improved so much. Currently, I'm following a strategy that other posters here have pointed out (and my NP too, but I'd forgotten) - have him repeat my instructions. This part is still hard, but he is already more aware of listening. So this is another strategy to take.

 

Good luck!

[eoffg1]

Cindy, you might ask the school speech therapist, to explain precisely what auditory processing difficulties that your son has, that FFW will effectively address?

Where you'll probably just get a vague answer?

You might also ask the SST if they get a commission from FFW ?

 

While FFW has helped many with APD, it has also caused considerable problems for many with APD.

Where the intensive approach of the program, does change auditory processing.

But its one size fits all marketing, while helping some, can cause greater auditory processing difficulties for those that it doesn't help? As it disrupts the coping strategies that they have developed.

So that it is important to be very clear about what precisely it will help with.

[Lecka]

It is nothing against your school speech therapist, but I think it might be worthwhile to have a speech battery first, and maybe go to a speech clinic or something that does specialize in these issues.

 

I say that b/c..... we got referred from our school speech therapist. But really, she is not supposed to tell us that, she was just very nice to tell me. She is not supposed to recommend a service she cannot provide or that the school could not provide -- her telling me could mean the school should provide it.

 

So for FF, i think that there are two possible problems. 1) The school has purchased FF or has some dealings with FF, and so the speech therapist does not have a free choice of all available programs to include not having the option of recommending one-on-one speech therapy. 2) The speech therapist knows about FF but without specializing in it does not know as much about alternatives as a place specializing would know.

 

My insurance was billed $350 for my son's speech battery at a state university speech clinic one state to the East of yours. So it may not be too expensive in the scheme of things.

 

But I just recommend that b/c it worked out well for my son.

 

And if not speech therapy, if that just doesn't seem like the right avenue, maybe you could find out if he actually has APD.

 

Whether it has worked or not, people often say FF is irritating to children and it can be a battle to get them to work on it. My son tends toward battling, so I really am very opposed to asking him to work on something, and organizing some portion of my life around managing him work on something, that he may not like.... if I am not really sure it will help. I am also at a point where I wasted some time with him and don't want to waste time again.

 

But FF is one that seems like it can be over-recommended, while also being effective for the kids it is effective for.

 

And if your school speech therapist has no constraints in being able to recommend other therapies and is really knowledgable specifically about this, I think that is different.

 

But if it is just the program they use for RTI response to intervention at the lowest or second-lowest level of intervention, they could just have a policy - -kids have to do this thing before they get better intervention, unless they come in with a diagnosis showing they require the better intervention.

 

It is not a bad thing but if this is how it is, you have to view some things with a grain of salt, b/c they may literally not be able to tell you to do more/different, but then be really happy when you do. My son's school speech therapist, when she recommended my course of action to me, told it to me and said "and I know you have military insurance and I know they will pay for this." If I didn't have military insurance, would she have said it? I don't know. I like to think she would have, but if I came back and said "the school speech therapist says my son needs x and they charge $20/hour" then I don't know how bad it would be for her as far as her job...

 

edit: With nothing against FF, it is one where b/c it is overrecommended, I would want a 2nd opinion. And I would want the 2nd opinion not to be from somewhere that is a provider of FF as one of their main things, ikywim. I would want to go somewhere that would seem impartial.

 

Also, my son's speech therapist at school is very good, I like her, she has a masters degree, she is good with kids, etc. But she is not day-in day-out working with the more difficult or less common issues. She is mostly doing pragmatic speech with kids on the autism spectrum, and doing articulation with kids needing articulation, and some grammar and telling stories without extra details. That is what her main job is. She also could just not spend 2-4 hours with my son giving him extensive testing. Her speech re-evals for school take like 15 minutes. There is no way.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Lecka

[Mukmuk]

Cindy, you might ask the school speech therapist, to explain precisely what auditory processing difficulties that your son has, that FFW will effectively address?

 

... So that it is important to be very clear about what precisely it will help with.

 

I think this is very accurate. I couldn't figure out why FFW worked for my son and not for others. This could be the reason. DS has sound discrimination issues and I saw activities in FFW that worked primarily on this.

[Lecka]

I also think you need to have a top goal. Do you want it to help with reading? Then you look at it as a reading program.

 

Do you want it to help with auditory processing? What exactly? Will it help for that?

 

If the SLP just knows it can work really well for kids, I think that is not bad, if something is a cheap and easy thing to try. But I don't think FF is cheap or easy. I think you would want some assurance it is specifically for your kid.

 

I think SLPs can really want to help, and have some recommendation to make. You know? And maybe I am wrong, but I just have an impression that these issues are not the bread and butter of a school SLP here. Maybe she thinks it is worth a shot and hopes it will work really well. Or maybe she really does think it will specifically help with issues x and y.

[Tiramisu]

If you get a full CAP evaluation from an pediatric audiologist familiar with CAPD, you will learn what the deficits are, specifically. There are different types of CAPD and each requires a different approach. I was told that FF has not been shown to help with the type of CAPD my dd has.

 

Only an audiologist can diagnose CAPD. A speech therapist can see warning signs and screen for it, but not diagnose it.

 

Life and learning can be very stressful for kids with these kinds of issues. I would be careful of adding to your ds' load with a therapy that would tax him more unless it's really a good bet. If it would be hard for you to get that CAPD evaluation from an audiologist who really knows CAPD and its different presentations, and FF is your only option, you could go ahead and try, while being very sensitive to his response.

 

:grouphug:

[lcook]

We finished FFW about 4 months ago. It was used as part of a comprehensive processing program we did with our SLP. It really helped my son with discriminating the individual phonemes within words.

 

Others, here, have mentioned that some kids can be frusterated with the program. Our SLP's methods seem to validate this. She had us go through about 3-4 months of therapy before she would even start my son on FFW. She said that he had to "prove" to her he was ready for FFW before she would begin it.

 

There is a yahoo group (AuditoryProcessing) moderated by an audiologist who is a big proponent of FFW. I've also seen posts from other FFW providers on the list. They can probably help you determine whether your son fits the profile of a good candidate.

 

Good luck. I sure do wish there was a one size fits all fix! I spoke with several providers to try and determine its efficacy for my son. It is pricey and time consuming but, for us it was worth every penny.

Edited November 5, 2012 by lcook

[DyslexicParent]

I've been researching how to help my 11 year old with dyslexia, dysgraphia, ADHD, etc., including Fast ForWord (FFW). Ask any dyslexia experts you know about the evidence-based Lindamood Phoneme Sequencing (LiPS), which is what I would use instead of FFW or Earobics. Below is one of the many disappointing reviews about FFW.

 

From Effective Programs for Struggling Readers: A Best-Evidence Synthesis:

"The most rigorous of the brief studies, an 8-week randomized evaluation by Borman & Rachuba (2009), found no differences between Fast ForWord and control students on reading measures.

:

On posttests adjusted for pretests, there were no differences between Fast ForWord and control students." :sad:

 

We are considering it for our almost 14 year old son, who is reading at a 5th grade level. He has auditory processing disorder, speech issues due to cleft lip and palate, processing speed issues, and memory deficits. Has anyone used this program? It is SO expensive, but the school speech therapist recommends we take a look at it.

Edited November 6, 2012 by DyslexicParent

[CyndiLJ]

Wow...you all have given me much to think about here!! So thankful for all the information provided. Here's a little more info on our son. We have been denied services to test for CAPD because the state statute allows for him to be denied based upon two factors...he is a non-native speaker of English, and his IQ is 2 points too low for them to be able to "accurately" test him. So, of course, our District is taking that as their "out" and will not test him because legally they don't have to. Our Speech therapist said there is no question he has it, it is that obvious, and she is trying to provide us with information and ideas for working with it without testing for it, because we have to foot the entire bill ourselves. Insurance does not come into play on this for us, we have a high deductible plan.

 

I think I am getting the picture though, that even though we are certain he has it, we need to get testing somehow so we have specific information. Will that really help us though? Will that information then lead us to effective therapies? He is profoundly effected by this, and we need to get him some help but I also don't want to waste money on ineffective therapies. Which leads me to another question, are ANY therapies very effective in the long run? It seems to me that most have lackluster results and I can find nothing where most people say that it indeed has helped their child. It is so frustrating!!

 

Cindy

[Mukmuk]

I'm glad you pointed this out, DyslexicParent. The positive results that I had read about, including our own, stem from FFW being used for CAPD. Our NP told us to stop the program after completing the pre-reading, sound discrimination levels. Reading through other forums in the past, it seems FFW had a major revamp in the last several years by adding later levels to address phonemic awareness. I'm not sure if this portion has had success.

 

Another reason to read between the marketing hype! Fwiw, where I am, the FFW franchise holder markets FFW as a "brain enhancer" (ie, not therapy). Our 1st aud recommended it, but we were so put off, we didn't do it till 2 yrs later when the NP (whom we have a lot of respect for) ordered it.

[Mukmuk]

Cindy, I missed yr post by a hair's breathe. CAPD is so hard because its so invisible :(. All the best to you and your family. :grouphug:

Edited November 6, 2012 by Mukmuk
Hare -hair ;)

[lcook]

I'm glad you pointed this out, DyslexicParent. The positive results that I had read about, including our own, stem from FFW being used for CAPD. Our NP told us to stop the program after completing the pre-reading, sound discrimination levels. Reading through other forums in the past, it seems FFW had a major revamp in the last several years by adding later levels to address phonemic awareness. I'm not sure if this portion has had success.

 

Another reason to read between the marketing hype! Fwiw, where I am, the FFW franchise holder markets FFW as a "brain enhancer" (ie, not therapy). Our 1st aud recommended it, but we were so put off, we didn't do it till 2 yrs later when the NP (whom we have a lot of respect for) ordered it.

 

:iagree:

 

Our provider used it the same way. We only used the portion that helps with sound discrimination. Our SLP does not like the later levels of FFW and we never used them. The 8-10 weeks we did with FFW did not get my son reading. It helped him to process/hear the individual sounds so that we could teach him to read. I can remember our SLP holding off on some phonics instruction until he completed FFW. She said after FFW he would be able to "hear" the sounds and we could continue with phonics instruction.

 

Mukmuk, I would love to compare notes with you more on what has worked and not worked...sounds like our kids may be similar.

[lcook]

I've been researching how to help my 11 year old with dyslexia, dysgraphia, ADHD, etc., including Fast ForWord (FFW). Ask any dyslexia experts you know about the evidence-based Lindamood Phoneme Sequencing (LiPS), which is what I would use instead of FFW or Earobics. Below is one of the many disappointing reviews about FFW.

 

From Effective Programs for Struggling Readers: A Best-Evidence Synthesis:

"The most rigorous of the brief studies, an 8-week randomized evaluation by Borman & Rachuba (2009), found no differences between Fast ForWord and control students on reading measures.

:

On posttests adjusted for pretests, there were no differences between Fast ForWord and control students." :sad:

 

I wonder if they used the FFW Reading program with these studies?? We did not use this part of FFW and my son's SLP is not at all impressed with it.

 

It is really hard to determine the validity of these studies since this link does't give much details. If the students only used the Language portion of FFW then I honestly don't know how their reading scores would improve. Really, from our experience it only worked on some very specific pre-reading skills. FFW Language is NOT a reading instruction program. So, unless the tests targeted those pre-reading skills addressed in the FFW Language series, they would not be an accurate reflection of skills learned.

 

Now, if they used the FFW Reading series I can't comment, since we have not been through it.

[Lecka]

I didn't know there were two programs. That is good to know.

 

Cyndi, I read "when the brain can't hear" I think, about auditory processing disorder. A book from my library, though. After I read it, I could tell, my son had only problems with telling apart consonants. He had all the speech errors she mentioned, and no other symptoms.

 

I don't remember a lot about the book, but at the time I liked it.

 

I am also someone who has posted negatively about a program that didn't work for my son, that does work for some kids. I did it (in retrospect) at random. In some ways it is not a fair criticism, but in some ways, I think it is okay to say "this didn't work here." But I think the lesson for me is to be more careful when picking a program. So I think for some of the negative criticism, that is something to consider. I think when you see that, it can mean, it is something that works or not depending on the individual child and where they are at. Otoh I don't see a lot about Barton not working. I think that just means Barton is useful very generally, while other programs will be useful specifically.

 

It is very frustrating.

 

I have not been to testing for my son, but it seems like he has the really classic symptoms of dyslexia, in a very common way, and there is a lot of info. So I have not (so far) felt like he needed testing.

 

So, I don't know about testing. But it is worth asking to people who have been.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Lecka

[CyndiLJ]

OK everyone, so what DID you find to be the most helpful to work with auditory processing?? Is there a specific program or therapy that doesn't feel quite as much like being sold "snake oil"that you could recommend? I'd love to hear what has worked, what you think would be worth spending money on.

 

Cindy