Over $100K per pupil, but gov't needs to increase adult ed spending?

[Annie N]

Sheesh!!! Hello???? We spend $9139 per pupil (this does seem to include stuff like new school buildings) as of 2002. That is over $100K per pupil for 12 years.

 

And now the National Council on Adult Literacy wants the government to spend even more on adult education (non-pdf version with highlighting of terms). Admittedly, only $1000 per adult served per year, but with 20 million adults, that adds up to $20 billion!!!! Each year!!!! and admittedly that's a drop in the bucket compared to the annual $435.4 billion spent on childhood ed, but why is it that the same National Council which tells us the huge amounts spent over 12 years have failed now recommends more of the same?????

 

So, for over $100,000, we get 93 out of 230 million adults who are illiterate or barely literate:

a staggering 30 million American adults scored at “below basicâ€â€”meaning they could perform no more than the most rudimentary literacy tasks. Another 63 million adults could perform only simple, basic everyday literacy activities.

 

And the suggestion is that in 12 years we should have geared up to provide educational services to 20 million adults every year? That means that after another 12 years, we will have been able to "serve" an additional year of education for every adult. (Not to mention that the likelihood of the expense going up is very high.)

 

Does anyone else think that there is something seriously wrong that is not being addressed in our society?

 

Or am I weird?

[farmgirlinwv]

Obviously something is very wrong. I think many of these people are just trying to insure they have a job. The fact is the US cannot afford that. We have to stop borrowing from foreign countries to pay for things that are not necessary, ex. stimulus pkg. Also, we need to start taking care of ourselves and quit depending on the gov't to do everything. Adult education could be addressed by churches or organizations w/o gov't involvement. Americans need to go back to their roots of self-sufficiency!

[Annie N]

Reason # 44567 to homeschool.

yes, I must say that homeschooling has greatly improved my thinking :)

[Annie N]

Obviously something is very wrong. I think many of these people are just trying to insure they have a job. The fact is the US cannot afford that. We have to stop borrowing from foreign countries to pay for things that are not necessary, ex. stimulus pkg. Also, we need to start taking care of ourselves and quit depending on the gov't to do everything. Adult education could be addressed by churches or organizations w/o gov't involvement. Americans need to go back to their roots of self-sufficiency!

Do you think that the fact that the government does do all these things "for the people" affects the ability of people to be self-sufficient? Like, if everyone around you is on welfare and the amount you make makes it so you aren't living as well materially? (So, aside from the fact that our income is reduced by taxation to pay for all this.)

[astrid]

First off, as an adult ed. teacher, I'm offended by the comment that we're just trying to pad our own pockets and preserve our jobs.

 

I think many of these people are just trying to insure they have a job.

 

That offends me. Sorry, but it does. Nothing could be further from the truth, I assure you. I don't know where you live, but here in CT, adult ed. teachers are paid peanuts. And we're never full-time employees, so we don't get benefits, either.

 

Secondly, are you aware of all the classes that fall into the category of "adult education?" It's a broad field, serving MANY populations. Here are a few:

English as a Second Language (usually three levels-- beginning, intermediate and advanced)

Citizenship (to help immigrants fill out the incredibly daunting 50 page application and prepare to pass the U.S. Citizenship test)

Adult Basic Education Classes ("ABE," basic math and literacy classes)

Generalized Equivalency Diploma ("GED" for those who have chosen to drop out of high school and want to take the tests to try and earn their GED through the state's testing program)

External Diploma Program (an alternative to the GED for older adults, portfolio based)

Parenting Classes (for young adults and teens who have become parents and need guidance/help/coping strategies for effective parenting)

Basic Computing and Employment Preparedness (helps people, especially women, earn the skills necessary to re-enter the job market after being on welfare, disability or even years off raising children.)

 

Believe me, there is more and more need for adult education, especially as immigration increases and teen parenthood/dropout rates continue. (Yes, I know that technically teen pregnancy is down on average, but in some areas of the country, nothing's changed.) ALL of these classes help adults become better parents, new citizens, gainfully employed, productive members of society.

 

Most of those adults who are enrolled in these classes were never the beneficiaries of that $100K education. Most are poor immigrants, or the urban/rural poor who began life with so many strikes against them that even a billion-dollar education wouldn't even begin to make them successful. They didn't have parents who could (or would!) homeschool them. They didn't have nice, quiet homes for study and role models who valued them and their education.

 

Now they are looking for a second chance, and thankfully, adult education is place that allows them to be successful for perhaps the first time in their lives. Every year I am visited by former students who have gone on to college. Interestingly, many go into teaching or social work to try and help those who are the same place they themselves were. Their hard work and dedication to improving the lives around them is an inspiration to me.

 

We live paycheck to paycheck, so it's not easy for us to cough up money for taxes, etc. It is truly sad that you feel that adult ed. is such a waste of money. I find it an excellent investment.

 

Astrid

[Myrtle]

Sheesh!!! Hello???? We spend $9139 per pupil (this does seem to include stuff like new school buildings) as of 2002. That is over $100K per pupil for 12 years.

 

And now the National Council on Adult Literacy wants the government to spend even more on adult education (non-pdf version with highlighting of terms). Admittedly, only $1000 per adult served per year, but with 20 million adults, that adds up to $20 billion!!!! Each year!!!! and admittedly that's a drop in the bucket compared to the annual $435.4 billion spent on childhood ed, but why is it that the same National Council which tells us the huge amounts spent over 12 years have failed now recommends more of the same?????

 

So, for over $100,000, we get 93 out of 230 million adults who are illiterate or barely literate:

 

 

And the suggestion is that in 12 years we should have geared up to provide educational services to 20 million adults every year? That means that after another 12 years, we will have been able to "serve" an additional year of education for every adult. (Not to mention that the likelihood of the expense going up is very high.)

 

Does anyone else think that there is something seriously wrong that is not being addressed in our society?

 

Or am I weird?

 

No.

 

But perhaps it's not just basic adult literacy that special interest groups and leaders are interested in:

 

Take Mary Ann Corely and her impeccable career and credentials for example:

 

 

 

Mary Ann Corley, Ph.D., a Principal Research Analyst at AIR, directs the California Adult Literacy Professional Development Project, whose mission is to design and deliver professional development for California’s adult educators. From 1996-1999, Corley was Director of the National Adult Literacy and Learning Disabilities (ALLD) Center. In this role, she led the research, development, and training team of Bridges to Practice, a nationally funded and disseminated training module for literacy providers who teach adults with learning disabilities. She also served as founding director of the Lindy Boggs National Center for Community Literacy at Loyola University New Orleans.

 

Dr. Corley has 30 years experience in teaching and supervising adult literacy and workplace literacy programs, having served as Administrator of the GED Testing Program for the State of Maryland and as Adult Education Supervisor for Baltimore County Public Schools, where she assisted local businesses to establish workplace literacy programs for employees. In 1988, the Baltimore County Program that she directed was named “Outstanding Adult Education Program†by the U.S. Secretary of Education.

 

Her interests in teaching the teachers are that they,

 

" Have the "courage to teach" antiracist and anticlassist curricula ...provide professional development for instructors to help them explore issues of poverty, racism, cultural dominance, power, and internalized oppression "

 

As she says, this can't be instutionalized over night, but if she has enough money she could probably achieve her social goals quicker.

[Annie N]

Astrid,

I wrote a wonderful and extremely profound response to your very informative post... and it got lost in cyberspace.

 

Anyway, thank you for your great post. I did not know that adult ed encompassed so much.

 

I am not so much against adult ed as I am against setting up (or vastly expanding) on the Federal level yet another system of something that is not in their purview, and I think that the Council could have suggested a full review and overhaul of how we educate K–12, considering that over 40% who pass through this incredibly extensive and forceful process are, in effect, "failed products" of that system.

 

Obviously immigrants who came here when older are in a different category, but even those whose family lives are disruptive could be educated in a way more conducive to their actually learning, and surely those whom we call young adults ought not to be educated in a system designed (and not all that well) for children.

 

So, this response is not as profound or anything as my original, but I got the gist in :)

 

(PS I was kidding about its being wonderful and profound!)

[astrid]

But how do you know that all the adults in your district are products of your failed system? IMHO, it's in a municipality's best interest to include adults in their education program. Adults who are educated are more involved in their kids' education, and more able to parent, hold down a job, pay taxes, contribute to society. By providing classes for parents, much is gained for the children.

 

I don't disagree that districts are not meeting the needs of their K-12 students effectively, but that's as much a function of No Child Left Behind as it is failed parenting and lack of community involvement in education.

 

IMHO, a community has to take a stand and value education for ALL its citizens, not just those most fortunate. When a community decides to invest in and support education, perhaps the children of those "failed products" will have a more successful school career, thus enriching their community and world.

 

Profound and wise, yes. But I'm still ticked about the teacher comment! :tongue_smilie:

 

Astrid

[Annie N]

But how do you know that all the adults in your district are products of your failed system?

I have lived in the city and now I live in the country, and I grew up in the suburbs. And it seems like you have the same thing all over; it's not limited to one system.

 

IMHO, it's in a municipality's best interest to include adults in their education program. Adults who are educated are more involved in their kids' education, and more able to parent, hold down a job, pay taxes, contribute to society. By providing classes for parents, much is gained for the children.

Yes! I think it would be great if we were to change the K–12 system so that the resources we have already set up could be shared with the adults. One of the points that I made that was lost was that when I went to CC as a high school senior, I was surrounded by people who actually wanted to get an education, and a lot of whom were enthusiastic about what they were learning! Plus there were more male teachers, and I don't care how un-PC this is, it makes a difference with the boys over 13 or 14 or so.

 

I don't disagree that districts are not meeting the needs of their K-12 students effectively, but that's as much a function of No Child Left Behind as it is failed parenting and lack of community involvement in education.

I'm at the point where I'm beginning to think that all testing is driving education too much. Too much rests on the tests, and I think that the reason we need testing as our accountability measure is that the control has been taken from localities and put into the hands of people who are very busy and very far away.

 

IMHO, a community has to take a stand and value education for ALL its citizens, not just those most fortunate. When a community decides to invest in and support education, perhaps the children of those "failed products" will have a more successful school career, thus enriching their community and world.

 

Profound and wise, yes. But I'm still ticked about the teacher comment! :tongue_smilie:

 

Astrid

Now, about that teacher comment, which I did not make, I think she may have been referring to the higher-ups in the system, but I would like to comment on Myrtle's quote about Mary Ann Coreley, that she wants to teach teachers to "Have the 'courage to teach' antiracist and anticlassist curricula ...provide professional development for instructors to help them explore issues of poverty, racism, cultural dominance, power, and internalized oppression..."

 

I always remember one thing I heard many, many years ago about Spanish radio and TV. In the area in which I lived, almost all the Spanish media was owned by one or two people, and that was that in this type of situation, the media was almost always slanted very heavily to the Left, and that there was a certain amount of mutual backscratching between certain politicians and the media owners who "delivered" the votes. Considering that you mentioned how adult ed includes citizenship classes as well as ESL, I'd say that there's quite possibly an element in the entire adult ed system which pushes in that direction politically. OTOH, that same sort of thing is going on in the K–12 schools, so I don't think it's really a factor in this.

 

Every so often I drive by the multi-million dollar school complex, usually on the weekends. And it is empty. Think of how it would be if we combined the adult ed with the high school, or the last two grades of high school, and allowed kids to take classes at off-hours and adults to take the classes they need which are already being taught, or which are easily expanded. And if we relaxed restrictions on teachers so we could draw upon a wider range of people to teach, esp retirees. It just seems to me that there are a lot of scattered resources and unused people... I guess that's probably too utopian, tho.

[angela in ohio]

As long as the NEA has a stranglehold on education, it will continue to fail, and the government will have to try to create round-about ways to fix that: NCLB, adult ed, etc. If you want to know why people aren't leaving our schools with basic skills, look into the NEA first. We've seen it time and time again...

[Perry]

As long as the NEA has a stranglehold on education, it will continue to fail, and the government will have to try to create round-about ways to fix that: NCLB, adult ed, etc. If you want to know why people aren't leaving our schools with basic skills, look into the NEA first. We've seen it time and time again...

 

I agree with all this, but would extend the blame to include colleges of education. And darn it, I can't rep you again.

[summer]

I do not get the spending on adult ed. If they are paying to educate adults..then why do I have student loans?

[Danestress]

I do not get the spending on adult ed. If they are paying to educate adults..then why do I have student loans?

 

Because you made the choice to apply for them.

 

These students may also incur loans. The fact that the government spends some money on education doesn't mean it's footing the entire bill.

 

All of us who have attended public universities have done so at least partially at the public expense. Most states spend a lot maintaining universities, and the amount that we pay in tuition, housing and books is much less than it would actually cost us if the state did not support public universities. Some people still prefer to pay for private universities, which is their choice.