Paige Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 What do you do with kids who obviously thoroughly know the material but test very poorly? When in PS, my DS, who was actually ahead of the class by quite a bit, tested so poorly that he was frequently put in lower levels, not allowed to advance (stupid AR tests), and was not given appropriate math or reading material. We pulled him out and I've been working with him on paying attention, being neat, and remembering to answer the questions asked and not the question he thinks should be asked, but he is no better. I gave him his end of year math test and he scored a 62%! When I went over it with him, every problem he missed was the result of either answering the wrong problem, writing the answers in the wrong place, being so messy he can't read his own writing and copying incorrectly or I misread it, or sloppy measurements because he was going too fast, or some other stupid mistake. With no help from me, he was able to quickly give me the correct answers for everything he missed. I don't know what to do. I'm happy he knows the material so well, but frustrated that he can't perform well. He's on meds for ADHD but so far there's been no improvement in these kinds of things. I'm thinking of making him redo the test, but I'm not sure if that will do anything but make me feel better and him more frustrated. After he did his test, I told him to check it before he gave it to me. He whined that it was unnecessary but eventually he said he did it and found 2 mistakes. I believe him when he says he's trying to do his best. I'm scared that if we don't find a way to overcome this lack of attention to detail or whatever it is that is causing him to test so poorly (his homework's not much better), that he will be the super smart person who is repeatedly fired for making too many mistakes, or that he won't be able to even get into college because of poor scores, or he'll flunk out and be depressed. He doesn't see why it is a problem if he knows the material, but it really worries me for his future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 How old is he? I've learned that some problems are best corrected with work outside of school work, such as chores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 was he already evaluated by a neuropsych, when he got the adhd diagnosis? other 2e issues can contribute to test taking problems. Have developmental vision issues been ruled out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 He'll be 11 soon. He got the ADHD diagnosis from 2 psychiatrists and 1 psychologist but not a neuropsychologist. His vision seems fine but that hasn't been evaluated either. He reads orally very well. I was hoping to avoid further testing. It would be so expensive and I'm not sure DH would be on board. He's already skeptical about ADHD being real and whether or not all kids are like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I wouldn't panic yet, but I'd work on attention to detail in something OTHER than school work. It's easier to PUSH them with confidence. Neuropsych testing isn't the cure all some people think it is, and it can come back to bite a child. I'm not pro or anti testing. I've seen it go both ways, and it's just luck, it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryAtHope Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I Neuropsych testing isn't the cure all some people think it is, and it can come back to bite a child. I'm not pro or anti testing. I've seen it go both ways, and it's just luck, it seems. In what ways have you seen it "come back to bite a child?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 He'll be 11 soon. He got the ADHD diagnosis from 2 psychiatrists and 1 psychologist but not a neuropsychologist. His vision seems fine but that hasn't been evaluated either. He reads orally very well. I was hoping to avoid further testing. It would be so expensive and I'm not sure DH would be on board. He's already skeptical about ADHD being real and whether or not all kids are like this. You might not need more testing. The important thing is that other issues may have been ruled out or in (e.g. processing speed) via IQ testing. This may have been done already by the psychs you saw. Looking ahead to the SAT, if accommodations were available for your student, you would want to take advantage of that in this situation. Do you feel that the diagnosis is correct? Do any of your psychs specialize in 2e issues? It is also possible to take the results elsewhere for a second opinion if you have doubts. I would also consider whether he needs a different med. Otherwise, what comes to mind for the handwriting are the possibilities of vision and motor issues. Vision can be ruled out by seeing a developmental optometrist http://www.covd.org. For the motor, you would see an OT. Did the psychs talk about dysgraphia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aelgraham Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 My son doesn't do well on his testing either, though is very bright. The problem with this is it makes it a challenge to know what he is mastering, and where he might have true gaps or challenges. Last year I had someone assess him using the Woodcock Johnson. I knew he would perform much better for someone else, having to answer orally. He did very well and it allowed us to identify one real problem area that we needed to work on. This year we went back to to the Iowa and I'm hoping with maturity he took the test more seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Thanks. He does extremely well if I test him orally. He just has so many problems in other formats. On practice computer based tests, I can observe him reading the question, saying the right answer, and then clicking the wrong answer more than a few times. As for dysgraphia, his K teacher wanted him evaluated for it. I think he was just slow. He still had no hand preference and would switch back and forth, so he was equally bad in both hands, but better in both hands than most people would be in their non-dominant hand. I think if he had been left alone that he would be ambidextrous. His teacher told him he could only use his right hand in her class from then on. I think she may have picked the wrong hand (and never asked me about it) and it's too late to switch now. We've spent a lot of time on handwriting this year. When he wants to, he can have very beautiful handwriting and he can do it without pain in his hand. It's not a question of ability- it's a matter of effort. Similarly, he is an excellent speller orally, for tests, and during spelling lessons. In his day to day writing, however, he is an awful speller. When his mistakes are pointed out, he can self correct easily, but he gets frustrated with how many he has made, frustrated with himself for having not noticed, and with me for pointing it out to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathermomster Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) Hi there, You child sounds like mine. For math, DS uses cm sized metric graph paper. The paper has a very light print so that the blocks aren't visually distracting. DS is diagnosed with dysgraphia among other things. DS works slowly and requires more white space around his problems. He's seen VT and his problem isn't tracking. The NP report would be helpful. Edited June 18, 2012 by Heathermomster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 A little update- I spoke with my son's psychologist today and he recommends having him do his tests orally. If we send him back to school, he'll write a note so we can have a 504 that requires the school to test him orally as well. He does really well w/oral tests and finding out that we can make this happen if he goes back to school makes me feel better. I also had him re-do his test with graph paper as his scrap paper and it did help. Thank you for that suggestion. The psychologist also wants to do some more testing with him to make sure we aren't missing anything. Has anyone asked a school or testing service to test your child orally? Did that work out well or not? My husband is concerned that it would single out DS too much and make him feel awkward if he's the only one pulled out for a separate test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) As for dysgraphia, his K teacher wanted him evaluated for it. I think he was just slow. He still had no hand preference and would switch back and forth, so he was equally bad in both hands, but better in both hands than most people would be in their non-dominant hand. I think if he had been left alone that he would be ambidextrous. His teacher told him he could only use his right hand in her class from then on. I think she may have picked the wrong hand (and never asked me about it) and it's too late to switch now. We've spent a lot of time on handwriting this year. When he wants to, he can have very beautiful handwriting and he can do it without pain in his hand. It's not a question of ability- it's a matter of effort. Ability and effort are related. If there is less ability, due to an LD, for example, the task requires greater effort. Just because a task can be accomplished under one set of circumstances does not mean it can be accomplished under all sets of circumstances and in a timely manner. Based on the above paragraph, I really think you should consider looking into a developmental vision evaluation and OT. Has anyone asked a school or testing service to test your child orally? Did that work out well or not? You should ask this on the SN board. While it sounds like a fine idea for the time being, that's a fairly extreme accommodation for a 504 plan, IMO. In the long run, it makes sense to get to the bottom of the problem. High school exams, such as APs and the SAT, are not given orally. Eta, articles about 2E kids: from the GDC Hoagies Edited June 20, 2012 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBanjoClown Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I usually had several kids in my classes that had oral testing as a mod. Be sure to specify that you want him to answer orally. Most of my kids were dyslexic, so I just read the test out loud to them and they answered on their paper. I did have one child who I would call to my desk and get him to answer orally, but he didn't even have that as a mod., it was just something that I discovered worked for him. The kids are actually very understanding about these things. If there is ever a question that comes up about it (which I can't remember happening very often at all), we just tell them that all kids learn differently. It's the same reason we teach in so many different ways (reading, taking notes, PowerPoint, labs, online activities, demonstrations, group activities, partner work, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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