Redoing a subject if they aren't doing well in it?

[Quiver0f10]

My son is not doing well in Apologia Chemistry. He is having a hard time with the math I think. He just finished TT Alg I and will start Alg II in August. Should I have him redo chemistry next year? What about the grades he earned this year? He is a low C right now...:blush5: Or just leave the C and either move on to physics or just not do another science. See my other thread here

Edited June 6, 2012 by Quiver0f10

[regentrude]

It really depends on your goal.

If it is important for you and your son that he masters chemistry (for example if he wants to be a chemist or chemical engineer), he should work on it until mastery.

If chemistry is just a check-the-box-we-have-to-have-science for a student with absolutely no interest, move on.

 

Seeing from your other thread that he wants to go to community college first, I would be inclined to let it go. He can take chemistry in college if he is interested.

 

I think you have identified the problem correctly. Chemistry requires algebra as a prerequisite (alg 1 if exponentials and logarithms are covered in alg 1, alg 2 if not) . Taking chemistry and algebra 1 concurrently has been setting him up for failure from the very start.

Edited June 6, 2012 by regentrude

[Quiver0f10]

It really depends on your goal.

If it is important for you and your son that he masters chemistry (for example if he wants to be a chemist or chemical engineer), he should work on it until mastery.

If chemistry is just a check-the-box-we-have-to-have-science for a student with absolutely no interest, move on.

 

Seeing from your other thread that he wants to go to community college first, I would be inclined to let it go. He can take chemistry in college if he is interested.

 

I think you have identified the problem correctly. Chemistry requires algebra as a prerequisite (alg 1 if exponentials and logarithms are covered in alg 1, alg 2 if not) . Taking chemistry and algebra 1 concurrently has been setting him up for failure from the very start.

 

Thank you. It's definitely not something he is interested in at this time. I just hate seeing that C on there. But it is what it is.

[ilovemy4kids]

Just sharing...

 

My son did very well with Chemistry this year (B that would have been an A except he forgot to submit a formal lab report and received a 0) from redwagontutorials.com

 

That being said, he is an Saxon Alg II this year and struggled around test 14 (sin and cosine), so we ended up backing up from test 20 to the point of the book where he started struggling.....He will finish the book, but not until August.

 

After speaking with Mr. R, we decided to hold off on Physics for a year to solidify the math, and go with Advanced Biology because of the prerequisites for Physics. These are the from the apologia website.

 

Junior Physics* Physics* Algebra I, Geometry; basic Trigonometry functions

 

 

Blessings,

Sandra

[Teachin'Mine]

Very hard to do the math required in chemistry if the necessary topics haven't already been covered in math class. I would suggest that he go onto physics - conceptual only - and then have him re-visit the Apologia Chemistry in the second half of the year. He can always re-take chemistry in cc, but it would be great for him to master what's in Apologia first. The stoichiometry (sp?) and all is challenging.

[Julie in MN]

Thank you. It's definitely not something he is interested in at this time. I just hate seeing that C on there. But it is what it is.

 

The options for getting rid of the C (which seems mostly do to his tackling something before ready) that I can see:

 

- Change the course to something where his level of accomplishment is worth a better grade. For instance, an Introductory Chem or Physical Science 1 semester or something.

 

- Allow him the opportunity to earn extra credit. My oldest public-schooled-son did that a lot of times when he had let something go in ps. It didn't ruin him - he graduated college with honors :)

 

Julie

[Quiver0f10]

Thank you all. I was thinking maybe he could go through Plato's Chemistry course either over the summer or in the fall and see if that helps. By the spring semester he should be halfway through the Alg II text and could tackle the Apologia then?

[swimmermom3]

Jean,

 

I will add one more option into the mix.

 

As a sophomore, my son received C the first semester and a F the second semester. He chose to retake the course this year when he came home for school. Those grades will fall under an elective and the grades he received this year will stand for his official science requirements.

 

I made the boy take notes, answer all study guide questions unless redundant, and work all problems. I studied late into the night with him and discovered that he was missing several study skills that would have allowed him to be successful the first time around. Also, from my experience with my two older teens, if I had a choice, chemistry would fall junior year. The extra year of maturity and math practice can make a difference, but I know this messes up the usual science sequence.

 

I am no longer quick to decide do drop a course because I do not think that is where a child's future will lie. We did push our artsy daughter to take chemistry. She hated it, but now she comes home from cosmetology school chattering about chemical bonding. There is no small amount of chemistry involved with the color work she is doing. The difference is that this time, chemistry has a purpose and therefor makes sense.

 

Back to my son, the school counselor talked to him about how he could turn the situation around with regards to his decision to retake a class and how to sell that in a college interview and on his transcripts.

 

Just a few scrambled thoughts, for what they are worth.:tongue_smilie:

[klmama]

My ds's friend bombed his freshman year at a public school and will attend make-up courses this summer at a private academy to replace the bad grades he got in school. If he passes them, those grades will be the ones that count and the bad grades will not be included in his grade point average (although they will appear on the transcript). I have heard of this from others attending different districts, so it seems it is not uncommon.

[Quiver0f10]

Jean,

 

I will add one more option into the mix.

 

As a sophomore, my son received C the first semester and a F the second semester. He chose to retake the course this year when he came home for school. Those grades will fall under an elective and the grades he received this year will stand for his official science requirements.

 

I made the boy take notes, answer all study guide questions unless redundant, and work all problems. I studied late into the night with him and discovered that he was missing several study skills that would have allowed him to be successful the first time around. Also, from my experience with my two older teens, if I had a choice, chemistry would fall junior year. The extra year of maturity and math practice can make a difference, but I know this messes up the usual science sequence.

 

I am no longer quick to decide do drop a course because I do not think that is where a child's future will lie. We did push our artsy daughter to take chemistry. She hated it, but now she comes home from cosmetology school chattering about chemical bonding. There is no small amount of chemistry involved with the color work she is doing. The difference is that this time, chemistry has a purpose and therefor makes sense.

 

Back to my son, the school counselor talked to him about how he could turn the situation around with regards to his decision to retake a class and how to sell that in a college interview and on his transcripts.

 

Just a few scrambled thoughts, for what they are worth.:tongue_smilie:

 

Thank you for sharing. I know one of my son's issues is poor study habits. He doesn't know HOW to study. We have watched the Superstar Student DVD from The Teaching Company, but he still needs work in this area. Do you have any book suggestions?

 

As ar as the chemistry, I think we are going to drop it for now and have him retake the course after he does some of the Alg II book.

[Quiver0f10]

My ds's friend bombed his freshman year at a public school and will attend make-up courses this summer at a private academy to replace the bad grades he got in school. If he passes them, those grades will be the ones that count and the bad grades will not be included in his grade point average (although they will appear on the transcript). I have heard of this from others attending different districts, so it seems it is not uncommon.

 

Could you please explain how this would work? Where would I list the grades and under what heading? Would I have chemistry twice?

 

Thanks!

[Lolly]

Because I am technically everything in the school, I chose to erase the first try and give the grade from the redo. In your son's case, honestly, he shouldn't have been allowed to take chemistry without having algebra. The first grade really is not an accurate view of his abilities. Therefore, I would definitely erase the first one and have a clean slate redo. If he really doesn't want to take it, a C is not the end of the world.

[Teachin'Mine]

Thank you all. I was thinking maybe he could go through Plato's Chemistry course either over the summer or in the fall and see if that helps. By the spring semester he should be halfway through the Alg II text and could tackle the Apologia then?

 

Jean is this for your 15 yo? If it is, then I would drop the chemistry until he's completed algebra 2 and do biology, which doesn't need math, next year. He's got time still to fit it all in. Then when he gets to physics, he could do Apologia's physics as he'll have had the needed math for that.

 

I wouldn't judge how well he's studying based on the chemistry as it would have been nearly impossible for him to do well with taking algebra 1 concurrently. If he's having a problem with other subjects, then by all means work on that. We found Super Star Student only a bit helpful as dd doesn't follow the system demonstrated there. I wish they had a system specifically geared to homeschooling. Interested to read what others suggest. :001_smile:

[Quiver0f10]

Because I am technically everything in the school, I chose to erase the first try and give the grade from the redo. In your son's case, honestly, he shouldn't have been allowed to take chemistry without having algebra. The first grade really is not an accurate view of his abilities. Therefore, I would definitely erase the first one and have a clean slate redo. If he really doesn't want to take it, a C is not the end of the world.

 

I will have him redo it and replace the grade. I didn't realize he couldn't do the chem alongside TT Alg I. :blushing:

 

Jean is this for your 15 yo? If it is' date=' then I would drop the chemistry until he's completed algebra 2 and do biology, which doesn't need math, next year. He's got time still to fit it all in. Then when he gets to physics, he could do Apologia's physics as he'll have had the needed math for that.

 

I wouldn't judge how well he's studying based on the chemistry as it would have been nearly impossible for him to do well with taking algebra 1 concurrently. If he's having a problem with other subjects, then by all means work on that. We found Super Star Student only a bit helpful as dd doesn't follow the system demonstrated there. I wish they had a system specifically geared to homeschooling. Interested to read what others suggest. :001_smile:[/quote']

 

Yes, this is my 15 yo. He did Biology in 9th and Chemistry this year, which is 10th. He is behind in math. We had been using Chalkdust, then Saxon and had to back up when we witched to TT because he was having trouble.

 

Now I'm not sure what to use for science next year while he takes Alg II. I have Hewitt's Conceptual Physics but I don't think that's right now either. He only has two years of highschool left.

[Julie in MN]

Yes, this is my 15 yo. He did Biology in 9th and Chemistry this year, which is 10th. He is behind in math. We had been using Chalkdust, then Saxon and had to back up when we witched to TT because he was having trouble.

 

Now I'm not sure what to use for science next year while he takes Alg II. I have Hewitt's Conceptual Physics but I don't think that's right now either. He only has two years of highschool left.

 

Beginnings Publishing has a short math program for kids who need the math for chemistry. It's called Bridge Math. Recently someone said it didn't have the really advanced topics in it, but it might do for your purposes.

http://beginningspublishing.com/oscommerce/catalog/index.php?cPath=35&osCsid=8e30dba819f1338472325d10d2fe28aa

 

Julie

[asta]

I will have him redo it and replace the grade. I didn't realize he couldn't do the chem alongside TT Alg I. :blushing:

 

 

 

Yes, this is my 15 yo. He did Biology in 9th and Chemistry this year, which is 10th. He is behind in math. We had been using Chalkdust, then Saxon and had to back up when we witched to TT because he was having trouble.

 

Now I'm not sure what to use for science next year while he takes Alg II. I have Hewitt's Conceptual Physics but I don't think that's right now either. He only has two years of highschool left.

 

He's homeschooled. Why can he only have 2 years of high school left?

 

 

A

[tex-mex]

I will have him redo it and replace the grade. I didn't realize he couldn't do the chem alongside TT Alg I. :blushing:

 

 

 

Yes, this is my 15 yo. He did Biology in 9th and Chemistry this year, which is 10th. He is behind in math. We had been using Chalkdust, then Saxon and had to back up when we witched to TT because he was having trouble.

 

Now I'm not sure what to use for science next year while he takes Alg II. I have Hewitt's Conceptual Physics but I don't think that's right now either. He only has two years of highschool left.

Currently, I am having my 10th grade ds take Apologia Chemistry with the GPB Chemistry lectures as a supplement. He is also in TT Geometry this year. I have to say with the TT Algebra I under our belt from last year, ds is having no difficulties with the Chemistry problems in the Apologia book. Ds struggles with dysgraphia and working memory issues -- but is strong in math and science. You really need to understand Algebra I before Chemistry. I find it helps for me to study along with ds in the math and science courses, so I can see if he has a problem. Many times, I end up explaining it a different way or use supplemental tools for him to understand. I do make him sit with me and observe his OYO, review and practice problems. I like to discuss them and use a whiteboard. Often, he surprises me with his ability to pick up the skill needed (i.e. conversion, moles, etc) without my help. However, ds loves seeing me struggle with figuring out a problem in the book. When it comes to the test, he is on his own. Our system works for us.

 

Last year, we did TT Algebra I and Biology with ICP (Integrated Chemistry and Physics) which was a nice intro to the world of Chemistry and Physics.

 

Next year, ds will do TT Algebra II and Apologia's Physics (with a crash course in sine, cosine & tangent from Trigonometry). I am also supplementing the Apologia Physics with the Hewitt's Conceptual Physics and the GPB Physics lectures.

 

ETA: Why not have him do Advanced (AP) Biology or Apologia's Marine Biology instead of Chemistry? Wait for Chemistry once Algebra I is completed. This is homeschool. No one is behind. You tailor the courses to your child's needs. We all have been where you are in homeschooling. Hope this helps!

Edited June 7, 2012 by tex-mex

[Quiver0f10]

He's homeschooled. Why can he only have 2 years of high school left?

 

 

A

 

True, good point :)

[Teachin'Mine]

True, good point :)

 

I agree with Asta. If he's 15 and finishing up 10th, he's definitely on the young side. I'd be inclined to call this year 9th grade and give him the time he needs. He'd be graduating at 18 - not older by any stretch. :001_smile:

 

Since he's already done biology, maybe you could move into conceptual physics next year? Has he done Apologia's physical science? If not, that could be a good course for him as it gives a good intro to the chemistry and physics and some of the math needed. If he's done that already, conceptual physics, Advanced Biology, astronomy, earth science - anything which doesn't require math beyond algebra 1 - would be the way I would go.

 

If you offer your son the option of calling this year 9th, he might be very relieved. It will give him a lot more time on the subjects he loves and give him more time before he needs to be ready for the SAT/ACT and all of that too.

[regentrude]

Yes, this is my 15 yo. He did Biology in 9th and Chemistry this year, which is 10th. He is behind in math. We had been using Chalkdust, then Saxon and had to back up when we witched to TT because he was having trouble.

Now I'm not sure what to use for science next year while he takes Alg II. I have Hewitt's Conceptual Physics but I don't think that's right now either. He only has two years of highschool left.

 

 

What's your hurry???

I would agree with others who recommended he take an extra year.

Especially considering that he is behind in math. And he is young for a 10th grader.

 

Conceptual Physics concurrently with algebra 2 is not a bad choice; he will have all the math he needed to be actually successful.

[Quiver0f10]

I agree with Asta. If he's 15 and finishing up 10th' date=' he's definitely on the young side. I'd be inclined to call this year 9th grade and give him the time he needs. He'd be graduating at 18 - not older by any stretch. :001_smile:

 

Since he's already done biology, maybe you could move into conceptual physics next year? Has he done Apologia's physical science? If not, that could be a good course for him as it gives a good intro to the chemistry and physics and some of the math needed. If he's done that already, conceptual physics, Advanced Biology, astronomy, earth science - anything which doesn't require math beyond algebra 1 - would be the way I would go.

 

If you offer your son the option of calling this year 9th, he might be very relieved. It will give him a lot more time on the subjects he loves and give him more time before he needs to be ready for the SAT/ACT and all of that too.[/quote']

 

What's your hurry???

I would agree with others who recommended he take an extra year.

Especially considering that he is behind in math. And he is young for a 10th grader.

 

Conceptual Physics concurrently with algebra 2 is not a bad choice; he will have all the math he needed to be actually successful.

 

Taking another year is an interesting idea. I do think it would benefit him. I am going to discuss it with my DH and son and see what they think.

 

Thank you!