PLEASE help me once more over Singapore

[tiffanieh]

Okay. Let me try to get you inside of my brain.

 

Both of my children are good at procedural computation in math. They do CLE math (as I explained in another post). However, I can't get off the SM website and the looks of it out of my mind. I gave my son (going into 5th grade) the 3A test and he can easily do the "normal" math problems perfectly, but gets flubbered with the word problems, and large mental math problems. Once I explained it to him, he was better able to do it, but I still think he is missing out on the fundamentals of this type of thinking.

 

however, he likes the idea of learning mental math, BUT doesn't like the fact that he will have to go so far back in "grade". I explained to him that we would be able to fly thru the stuff he already knows and slow down only on the parts of SM that he needs the fundamental practice on.

 

My "hiccup" is that I have changed our math programs every year and I KNOW that is not good. So I'm wondering if we should stick with CLE math and supplement with SM, or if I should bite the bullet and change once more, go back to where he needs to start and just fly thru the areas that he already knows. My gut is telling me to make this switch now because I truly feel that he may know his "rote memory" work like the back of his hand, but applying that knowledge to real world scenarios and challenging word problems he can't do.

 

I do hate the fact that since we've changed so much that we are always feeling like we are catching up. We spent the later part of his 3rd grade year catching him up in CLE and then did his 4th grade on grade level with CLE 4. Now we'll be going back in SM and catching him up for his 5th grade year, and "perhaps" by 6th grade he'll be on track.

 

I'm sure by now you will have wished you never opened this thread, my apologies. I love math and want my children to have the same appreciation for it as I do. I think mentally in my mind. I have NO CLUE what type of math I learned in school, whether it was strictly computation and my mind simply went there on its own, or whether I was taught mental math. I sure wish I could remember.

[TKDmom]

I think if I were you, I'd stick with CLE. I know the feeling of Needing the shiny new curriculum, but it may not serve your children well to keep starting new programs where they have to back up because of different scope and sequence.

 

If you really want to work in the mental math and word problems from SM, maybe you could buy some of the SM books and use them as a supplement on Fridays. You could the HIG and just work through the teaching sections that teach mental math, with some of your own made-up problems. Or if you are confident in your ability to teach the "Singapore way" you could get just the textbook. And of course, there's always the Challenging Word Problems. Or you could just buy all of it. :D. But still, it sounds to me like you just want to supplement some mental math strategies and add some word problems that will really make dc think. If CLE is working well for you, I wouldn't switch away from it, just supplement some of the things you feel it lacks. If you start supplementing with SM and fall in love with it...well maybe then you can switch. :tongue_smilie:

Edited April 27, 2012 by bonniebeth4
fixed autocorrect typos

[tiffanieh]

That's probably the smartest thing to do Bonnie. Thank you. I like that idea. I can't wait for convention to get my hands on everything and really simmer over it all!! :)

[jennynd]

I will stick with what you are using but supplement with SM IP or CWP.

Also familiar yourself with how SM using bar diagram and uses that when you do your currently program, so when he work on SM, it won't be a big surprise

[JessReplanted]

Stop changing math. ;)

 

FWIW, we spent over a year using SM, and it was miserable. I hate it. :tongue_smilie:

 

(We use CLE now).

[jcmi]

Several years ago I was in your position! Dd was partway through her 5th grade year when we switched to Singapore and she had to go back to 3B! However, she worked through the levels quickly and now in 7th grade she is finishing 6B. She will do LOF pre-algebra this summer and algebra in the fall.

 

I'm so glad we made the switch. We had used MUS K-3, then Saxon really briefly, and then CLE for 4 and 5. Switching had taken a toll, however, I just couldn't find the right fit for her. She hated math and really struggled with it. She just didn't "get" it.

 

Now, math is her favorite subject. She loves it and excells at it. She understands it in a way that I am thrilled with :001_smile:. She's sad that she's at the end of the Singapore elementary series (that's a different post ;)) but is excited (and prepared!) for algebra.

 

I know curriculum hopping isn't a good thing, especially in math....however, sometimes it is a matter of finding something that's a good fit....

 

Jen

mom to dd (13), ds (13, CP and Asperger's), ds (11), dd (7)

[boscopup]

Stick with CLE and add in Singapore IP and CWP. The IP teaches mental math, and the CWP teaches word problems.

[Five More Minutes]

Stick with CLE and add in Singapore IP and CWP. The IP teaches mental math, and the CWP teaches word problems.

:iagree: 100%.

[Crimson Wife]

Another vote for sticking with CLE and supplementing with Singapore CWP. Start with book 3- some of the problems in the 4th & 5th grade CWP books are similar to ones I remember being on the SAT.

[letsplaymath]

Personally, I've changed our math program nearly every year. I don't think it hurts, as long as you teach for meaning (relationally, rather than instrumentally). But at least part of your son's problem is that he sees math instrumentally --- he can follow calculation recipes to perfection, but he can't figure out what to do when he doesn't have the recipe. So no matter what math program you end up using, part of your goal needs to be opening his eyes to see the relationships between math ideas, how they interconnect.

 

Mental math is a good way to build up understanding, but you don't have to use Singapore Math. (Though I do love Singapore Math, and if it fits your family's learning style, I'd say go for it.) For instance, I wrote a blog post on mental addition, but many of those methods also apply in other situations. Or here's a good workbook series: primary, upper-elementary, older students. But whatever mental math tricks you learn, be sure to emphasize how important it is that your son learn WHY it works as well as HOW to do it.

 

Similarly, there are many ways to learn and practice solving word problems. I have a series on my blog using Singapore-style bar diagrams, and here's a great book that covers a wide variety of other approaches, and this one is also excellent.

 

And a great way to encourage creative math thinking is by finding math books he will read on his own. Worth much more than the cost of a new curriculum!

[Trish]

For what it's worth, it isn't that difficult to do 3A/3B/4A in a single year, followed by 4B/5A/5B the following year.

[SunnyDays]

I *just* worked through the same battle. My son also gets conceptual math very easily. I keep looking at Singapore, wanting to like it. In fact, we even tried it briefly, and it wasn't really a natural fit for either one of us... doesn't stop me from looking at it, LOL. But... my son LIKES CLE. He's GOOD at CLE. He's LEARNING with CLE. And it fits our family well.

 

It sounds like you are in the same boat. If it's working for your kiddos, stay with CLE. Stop changing. Definitely add in the CWP... they do have deep word problems. CLE does mental math too, just not in the same way as Singapore.

 

Picture me telling you this as I give you a big hug, because I know what it's like to obsess over math curriculum. :D But really, you can relax and know you're using a solid curriculum that's working.

Edited April 28, 2012 by SunnyDays

[alisoncooks]

Stick with CLE and add in Singapore IP and CWP. The IP teaches mental math, and the CWP teaches word problems.

 

Sorry to threadjack, but do Singapore levels line up roughly with grade level? I'm starting CLE1 with my DD (nearly 6) but I'm having 2nd thoughts and wondering about Singapore. If I add in the IP and CWP books, should I start 1A/1B (IP) and 1 CWP?

 

Thanks. :)

[Rosie]

Just another thought: If you decide not to switch to Singapore, you might think about getting the Math Mammoth Blue books for addition and subtraction. They teach mental math strategies like Singapore and you would skip out on a bunch of the repeat stuff that you'd get if you did fully Singapore.

 

And get the Singapore CWP books starting at probably level 3. That will cover the bar diagram method that Singapore uses.

[Rosie]

Sorry to threadjack, but do Singapore levels line up roughly with grade level? I'm starting CLE1 with my DD (nearly 6) but I'm having 2nd thoughts and wondering about Singapore. If I add in the IP and CWP books, should I start 1A/1B (IP) and 1 CWP?

 

Thanks. :)

 

No, Singapore levels don't line up exactly. They are slightly advanced.

 

In your case, I would just start at level 1A so you can get all the benefits of teaching the "singapore way."

 

I haven't found the IP books all that useful, though others have. We start the CWP at level 2. Singapore doesn't actually teach the bar diagram method until level 3.

 

Also, make sure to get the HIG so you can learn along with your dd!

[boscopup]

Sorry to threadjack, but do Singapore levels line up roughly with grade level? I'm starting CLE1 with my DD (nearly 6) but I'm having 2nd thoughts and wondering about Singapore. If I add in the IP and CWP books, should I start 1A/1B (IP) and 1 CWP?

 

Thanks. :)

 

There are some scope and sequence differences, for sure. Singapore does an intro to multiplication in 1st grade, long division at the beginning of 3rd grade, etc. Those are "early" compared to most curricula. I'd just take a look at a placement test and maybe even use it a semester behind where your child places in Singapore. The "Take the Challenge" problems in the IP and CWP are quite challenging (I had to look up an answer or two in the IP2A book :tongue_smilie:). So better to come at those problems when the child is pretty comfortable with the basic material.

 

My middle son is about to start Singapore 1A this summer, and I did not get IP or CWP for him this year. I'm going to wait until he's in Singapore 2 to start those. My oldest started IP and CWP at level 2, alongside Math Mammoth. That worked out well.