Jenny in Florida Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 So, a few months ago, my liberal-arts-type son started saying he might be interested in engineering for college and career. I wasn't completely shocked, since it is an idea he plays with every now and then. But the last few years have tended much more towards artsy stuff, and we've been taking it relatively easy on the math and science areas. He was "ahead" for a few years, but we've gone off the beaten path since then. He took algebra I three years ago, followed by geometry and "liberal arts math" (which is kind of a review of the other two courses). That last one doesn't count in Florida towards the required math courses, but we figured we had time to spare, and he could use the review. This year, which we're calling ninth grade, he's doing AoPS Intro to Counting and Probability, along with a home-designed unit on cryptology and a mini-intro to statistics. On his transcript, we're calling it "Topics in Discrete Mathematics." At the time he said this about engineering, I explained that, if he is serious, he will have some catching up to do in math, especially. We agreed that he would start algebra 2 this summer and then work year-round to get through calculus before graduating. (He plans to graduate in three years, rather than four.) So, I put in a course requrest through FLVS for algebra II with a June start date. In the months since then, though, he's changed his mind again. He's back to thinking he is more interested in the techy side of theatre, which has been his primary interest for several years, than in doing more traditional engineering. He's also remembered that he really doesn't like math. Also, the last couple of courses he's taken through FLVS have been a disaster for him. As a result, I think we're going to cancel the FLVS algebra II request for this summer and go back to the original plan of starting in the fall. I don't think, though, that we want to go with FLVS even then. And I am, to put it mildly, not a math person. So, we do need something that will give us a certain amount of hand-holding. Oh, and I'm on a very strict budget and haven't left anything for math, since I thought he would be doing FLVS for free. So, that leaves us needing a curriculum that: - covers algebra II topics. - is not too dry or boring and that will hold the interest of a liberal arts student. - provides solutions and a fair amount of help for a non-mathy teacher. - is free or super cheap. At this point, my best idea is to find a text we like and make heavy use of www.khanacademy.org to supplement. But I haven't had any luck yet finding anything that really screams "Pick me!" Some of the books I've seen that look most approachable are things in the "Dummies" or "Complete Idiot's" lines, and I somehow don't think that would look great on a course description. I should, maybe, mention that I don't think he will be going directly to a four-year university. He's not chomping at the bit to go to college at all, and we're encouraging at least a year of community college (possibly working toward a certificate in theatre tech) before he applies elsewhere. So, if he changes his mind and decides to go for a STEM degree, after all, he would have a chance to make up any math classes at that point. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amtmcm Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Life of Fred is relatively cheap, but it doesn't include complete solutions. How about Lial's Intermediate Algebra? You can pick up used copies of the text and solutions super cheap on Amazon. The text includes all tests which is really nice too. If you do Foerster Algebra 2 + Trig over 1 year then he might ready for Calculus the next year. The Math without Borders DVD's look excellent! This is not cheap, but when you think of it as two years of math in one year it looks a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I like the Lial books, so in this case, you'd be looking at Intermediate Algebra. You can get used copies that are in like new condition for about $10, the solutions manual is excellent (and also inexpensive used). There are tests in the book, or you can get the test bank (again, used). You could probably use Khan Academy with it, or there is a DVD you can get with video lessons that goes with it (though I've heard they're pretty dry). However, I wouldn't say that the book is not dry or boring. It's a math book. But books aside, if you're not wanting to force him to do a particular math sequence, if he decides to go the engineering route, he is smart enough to either teach himself the math he needs or get it at the community college pretty quickly. I don't think this is a stumbling block in the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 Life of Fred is relatively cheap, but it doesn't include complete solutions. How about Lial's Intermediate Algebra? You can pick up used copies of the text and solutions super cheap on Amazon. The text includes all tests which is really nice too. Thanks for reminding me about Life of Fred. I showed my son the samples, and he thinks it might be a good fit for him. (And it's at a price we can afford, especially if I can find it used.) I actually have the Lial's text supposedly on its way through BookMooch. So, my thinking now is that, between the two of those things and Khan, we can probably get through this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 However, I wouldn't say that the book is not dry or boring. It's a math book. But books aside, if you're not wanting to force him to do a particular math sequence, if he decides to go the engineering route, he is smart enough to either teach himself the math he needs or get it at the community college pretty quickly. I don't think this is a stumbling block in the big picture. My son is so weird. He's actually really good at math. He just doesn't like it. So, figuring out ways to keep him moving forward without turning him off entirely has kept me busy for the last several years. I did request Lial's Intermediate through BookMooch (although I'll be somewhat surprised if it actually arrives, given the postage the sender would have to pay). And I'm looking for a used copy of Life of Fred. Thanks so much for your thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 If there is still some thought that engineering is a possibility, then you may wish to use something more suited to that to keep him on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 If there is still some thought that engineering is a possibility, then you may wish to use something more suited to that to keep him on track. Do you have a suggestion for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Based on your OP, not FLVS! I'd be tempted to take him with me to our local convention and let him look at programs. Sometimes kids can astound you and pick something much harder than what you would pick (I'm thinking specifically of AoPS but maybe something else). If you can't take him and do that, then download a bunch of samples. Don't reach too high in level though, if it has been some time since he took math then you may expect he'll have to recover some ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 He can still get through calculus in three heats woth out pushing. Do algebra 2 this fall, PreCalc with trig next year, and calculus the next. I don't know which program to go with, but look for something with that sequence, then his options are still open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Based on your OP, not FLVS! I'd be tempted to take him with me to our local convention and let him look at programs. Sometimes kids can astound you and pick something much harder than what you would pick (I'm thinking specifically of AoPS but maybe something else). If you can't take him and do that, then download a bunch of samples. Don't reach too high in level though, if it has been some time since he took math then you may expect he'll have to recover some ground. First, it's not that he hasn't done math. He did geometry last year. And, in fact, he's doing an AoPS book this year. Our local convention is not a good option for us. I did download the Life of Fred samples, and had him look at other stuff. He actually remembered Fred from a couple of years ago when I had him look at samples and was enthusiastic about giving it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 He can still get through calculus in three heats woth out pushing. Do algebra 2 this fall, PreCalc with trig next year, and calculus the next. I don't know which program to go with, but look for something with that sequence, then his options are still open. He wants to finish high school in two more years, which is why we were looking at the year-round option. As I said, though, we are almost certain he will do at least a year at the local community college before applying anywhere else. So, he'll have a chance to make up any math deficiencies at that point, if it becomes necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa B Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 He wants to finish high school in two more years, which is why we were looking at the year-round option. As I said, though, we are almost certain he will do at least a year at the local community college before applying anywhere else. So, he'll have a chance to make up any math deficiencies at that point, if it becomes necessary. Jenny, Why are you having him graduate in two and then attend CC rather than graduating in three with the last year being all dual enrollment? Are the classes he wants to take at the CC being blocked to high school students? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Jenny, Why are you having him graduate in two and then attend CC rather than graduating in three with the last year being all dual enrollment? Are the classes he wants to take at the CC being blocked to high school students? It will be three years. This is his first year of high school. He's young, meaning that he isn't eligible for dual enrollment for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memphispeg Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I just posted this link on a new thread.http://vihart.com/ If he is young it might be a great way to spend a really fun Math semester or year. I would do it after Alg. 2 along with some AoPS if I had my druthers. I'm sure there'd be some way to do a computer graphics tie-in with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I just wanted to let you know that my kids like to use the dummies books to supplement Fred. We bought a huge stack of them when Borders went out of business and they have been really great. They are easy to use and easy to find the definition/example in. My daughter is doing the LOF calculus course and is finding dummies to be the best way to answer any questions she has. Yes, Khan would work but it takes at least 20 minutes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memphispeg Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 We have been using an AP guide to supplement calculus. I think it is the Princeton one. My dd has enjoyed using it very much. I assign reading and problems that go along with the Larson sections she is working on. I did not like the Barron's review book at all. We've tried it a few times but, just got no where with it. It may be a question of "learning style". Dd uses Khan after reading and doing a few of the textbook exercises and problems. He covers things v. quickly so she likes to preview his topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa B Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 It will be three years. This is his first year of high school. He's young, meaning that he isn't eligible for dual enrollment for a while. That's unfortunate. Did you speak to someone specifically about homeschoolers? In several counties homeschoolers can start at the the CC while younger than a public school student. Also, have you checked the surrounding counties? In our county, homeschoolers (and maybe public school kids too, I don't know) can attend our county CC system, PHCC, but there is also an agreement with the CC system to the south of us, SPC, to allow students to attend there instead. Their system is much larger and accepts homeschoolers grades 10-12. Ours "currently" accepts students in grades 9-12, but is very small and limited in its offerings. I'm just throwing this out there since he plans to attend the CC anyway right after graduating. If he attends the CC as a high school student it will be free and still give him the option of going to a different college as either a freshman or transfer student the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 First, it's not that he hasn't done math. He did geometry last year. And, in fact, he's doing an AoPS book this year. Our local convention is not a good option for us. I did download the Life of Fred samples, and had him look at other stuff. He actually remembered Fred from a couple of years ago when I had him look at samples and was enthusiastic about giving it a try. If he can live with AoPS, I'd stick with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilliums Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 If he can live with AoPS, I'd stick with that. This is what I was thinking. Also, my son began to appreciate math more when it was used in his classes (honors chemistry and an engineering classs--both at public school). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 If he can live with AoPS, I'd stick with that. He doesn't love it. He doesn't hate it, but he isn't invested. He'd much rather do something else. Thanks for speaking up, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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